Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[captain1965]

What about the subtle similarities?
maybe some lens warping as well.

 

[somehiker]

View attachment 1177520

What about the subtle similarities?
maybe some lens warping as well.

All of those details you have circled should be on both stones.
And they are, because the stones Mitchell photographed on the lawn for his book, are the same ones he gave to Kriewald and the other investors, who then gave them to the Flagg Foundation/AMMM, who then loaned them permanently to the museum where Ryan shot his video of them......same stones all the way down the line, from Clarence Mitchell to the SMM. There is little reason to suspect that the H/P stone at the museum is not the original one Travis claimed to have found first. We don't have a "bumper photo" of that stone though. Tom K. has said there was one, but that it was destroyed a long time ago. I've posted that information previously.
Unfortunately, and unless someone can produce an original photo of the H/P stone dating to sometime before Mitchell, we have to rely on Travis' and others' descriptions of that stone as being the first one found and that it is the same as the one we can see at the museum.

Regards:SH.

 

[captain1965]

this area i don't get!!

 

[Simon1]

Ryan:
Quick question; at 18:55 in your video is a shot of the top of the Horse Map and it appears to spell " M I G U E L " ? Any idea of the relevance to that ?

 

[somehiker]

View attachment 1177525

this area i don't get!!

Yes, there is a difference there, between the old and the new.
It's also an important detail, since I had to climb up through a notch in a otherwise sheer rock face at that point.
At the top, the terrain slopes down to the left and up to the right.
A very large rectangular boulder, with the left hand corners rounded and the right hand corners square, and with two vertical lines on the front face, can be seen off to the left from the top of the notch. A triangle shape can be seen at the base of the next vertical rock face, up that slope and to the right.

 

[coazon de oro]

View attachment 1177525

this area i don't get!!

Howdy Captain,

The stones on the car bumper picture are resting on a wood board, while the stones in the museum are resting on sand. If you lift the stone from the sand, you will find it is chipped the same way. They are the same stones there is no way to chip stone and get the same identical results.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

"there is no way to chip stone and get the same identical results."

You have that part right, anyway, Homar


View attachment notch det A.bmp View attachment notch det B.bmp

 

[deducer]

Frank, sorry I didn't get a chance to meet with you today and shake your hand. I had a dog howling and barking all night in the room next to mine at the Valley Ho Hotel last night, and was too tired after we got done for the day to do anything but go to my new hotel.

UM, I think your trouble began the minute you checked into a hotel with that kind of name.

 

[captain1965]

"there is no way to chip stone and get the same identical results."

You have that part right, anyway, Homar


View attachment 1177568 View attachment 1177570

Looks like a smoking gun to me.
Unless someone did some sort of water sanding and restoration.
The carvings appear to be deeper on the old.

 

[captain1965]

 

[Old]

We can find many areas on the bumper set and the museum set that are identical. To me that's not the test for authenticity. The test is are there areas where the two sets are indisputably different. We don't need 7 points of difference as evidence. One, just one, instance destroys any argument they are the same stones. We have that. In fact; we have more than just one, but I won't belabor the point. Its no different than if you viewed a painting of the Mona Lisa with blue eyes. Would you continue to believe you were viewing De Vinci's original? Don't think you would.

The trail maps on display are duplicates, end of story (at least for me). There is lots to discuss, learn and uncover as to the why, when, who, where.

Perhaps, as I believe, the maps still reveal useful information. But, its information that may or may not be 100% accurate or revealed in its entirety. You that have the strength and ability to field check the course depicted are the true test of the maps value. When you speak, I listen. Your value to the conversation is enormous. And; in the end, when all the Peralta/Jesuit/Waltz, gold is on display it will be your field work that brought that about.

 

[Azquester]

Bob, Only Sombrero mountain in Arizona is near old Copper Creek across the Rio from San Manuel down by Oracle and Tucson.

What if the witch/priest figure is neither and what if the hat is an exaggerated poorly craved Sombrero View attachment 1177429. Isn't Weavers Needle also know as the Sombrero.

 

[Azquester]

The carvings originally had some kind of dark material in the bottom of the cracks at least from what Ryan just shot in his Video. That would be the material to have an tested for composition age etc.

The difference may be the amount of dark contrast in the stone carved letter / number groves the TM's have which are more then the HP stones.
Angle of lighting may be at play here also.

Looks like a smoking gun to me.
Unless someone did some sort of water sanding and restoration.
The carvings appear to be deeper on the old.

 

[RG1976]

Ryan:
Quick question; at 18:55 in your video is a shot of the top of the Horse Map and it appears to spell " M I G U E L " ? Any idea of the relevance to that ?

That would be part of Travis' scam - trying to include Miguel Peralta into this artwork.

It's the same as him stopping to photograph weaver's needle - which he didn't.

Just trying to intertwine pieces of existing legend into the maps he carved. In those two instances, The Peralta family and Jacob Waltz' clues to the lost dutchman mine.

 

[RG1976]

We have 7 people that believe Travis carved the maps and 3 that believe he had nothing to do with it.

The poll is at the top of every page on this thread, and all votes are confidential.

 

[captain1965]

We have 7 people that believe Travis carved the maps and 3 that believe he had nothing to do with it.

The poll is at the top of every page on this thread, and all votes are confidential.

The only problem with a poll is that some "stoners" don't want others to have faith in them. Remember, this is a treasure hunter forum.

 

[RG1976]

The only problem with a poll is that some "stoners" don't wast others to have faith in them. Remember, this is a treasure hunter forum.

That's an offbeat comment - just because someone likes to hunt treasure doesn't also include them in the category of being gullible. And I haven't seen one person that has told someone else they are wrong for their comments or anyone else trying to shame someone for what they believe in. I'm sure some of us have had some good laughs - but no one is going to tell someone they are wrong. (at least I haven't seen that yet in this thread)

 

[captain1965]

What I am saying is that some Peralta Stone map believers feel that they have figured out how to apply them to the mountains and are afraid that others who get involved may become confident in them. Thus potentially leading others in their area. So some spread misinformation.

 

[captain1965]

I'm not calling anyone here gullible. Sorry if I came off insulting.

 

[RG1976]

What I am saying is that some Peralta Stone map believers feel that they have figured out how to apply them to the mountains and are afraid that others who get involved may become confident in them. Thus potentially leading others in their area. So some spread misinformation.

Gotcha. Have you seen that going on with this thread?