War of 1812 "connections"

Benjamin Gates

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There's quite a bit more that I've not put out here simply because there still isn't that vital direct connection. But yes, that Galveston Island theory is quite strong "if" in fact the narration is anything other then a simple dime novel. I can put a couple of locals in that region during the period in question, but I can't actually put them on that island or make any direction connection with the interested parties on that island. And I may also have a "little bit more" information on the TJB of Richmond and his family ties but still trying to sort that mess out? So, stays on the shelf for now......

What's that saying "birds of a feather flock together" or better yet, "guilty by association"? It's accepted truth unless proven otherwise. You may not find a pinpoint direct connection you are looking for... but if they fall into either of those 2 sayings...you most likely are onto something.

Does it pass the smell test?
 
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bigscoop

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The issue is that I understand the dynamics of these ciphers all-too well, which is why you always hear me stating that anyone can produce seemingly plausible solutions, just as they have and will continue to do. As for "the smell"....well, I also know it can look right, sound right, smell right, etc., etc., and yet without the body and the murder weapon it's just all circumstantial evidence that can still be wrong. The problem here, as with all of the other proposed remedies, is that it can become far too easy to run down the wrong street without that weapon and body, just as we have witnessed time and time again.
 

bigscoop

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...but during the Battle of New Orleans under the command of Gen Andrew Jackson was James Beverly Risqué, Pascal Buford, Thomas Beale, and Jean Lafitte.
....and others. However, there are several events during the period in question that place certain individuals from the Bedford region in other circumstantial situations. The problem still remains that there is nothing to directly connect any of it to the Beale narration. It's still that same old missing link, that required and vital missing link.
 

ECS

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That road has had the dust swept off of it so many times not a single speck remains, and yet, absolutely no connection has ever been discovered.
Then there is the Florida Campaign of Gen Andrew Jackson of which Major James Beverly Risqué took part- a campaign that consisted of massacres and looting of the Spanish citizens in the panhandle of Spanish Florida that led to the Adams-Onis Treaty that gave Florida to the US.
Many times it has been noted that the signing and ratification dates of this treaty match the Beale treasure deposit dates given in Ward's published 1885 Beale Papers.
That would provide a curious footnote in the speculative alternative Beale theories, but the most curious footnote is that three of Ward's children moved from Lynchburg to the same Florida panhandle where their grandfather Risqué served during Jackson's Florida Campaign.
The El Camino Real from St Augustine to Pensacola passed through the Campaign territory, and often shipments from the Spanish treasury in St Augustine were shipped on this only road to Pensacola.
Was one of these shipments captured by Jackson?
Was it considered to heavy to transport during the ongoing Florida Campaign and buried for later recovery?
Did Ward hear this story from his grandfather and retell it to his children?
It is curious why these three relocated to an area in the late 1870's that mostly pine tree and scrub wilderness with a total population of 12,000.
 

releventchair

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Then there is the Florida Campaign of Gen Andrew Jackson of which Major James Beverly Risqué took part- a campaign that consisted of massacres and looting of the Spanish citizens in the panhandle of Spanish Florida that led to the Adams-Onis Treaty that gave Florida to the US.
Many times it has been noted that the signing and ratification dates of this treaty match the Beale treasure deposit dates given in Ward's published 1885 Beale Papers.
That would provide a curious footnote in the speculative alternative Beale theories, but the most curious footnote is that three of Ward's children moved from Lynchburg to the same Florida panhandle where their grandfather Risqué served during Jackson's Florida Campaign.
The El Camino Real from St Augustine to Pensacola passed through the Campaign territory, and often shipments from the Spanish treasury in St Augustine were shipped on this only road to Pensacola.
Was one of these shipments captured by Jackson?
Was it considered to heavy to transport during the ongoing Florida Campaign and buried for later recovery?
Did Ward hear this story from his grandfather and retell it to his children?
It is curious why these three relocated to an area in the late 1870's that mostly pine tree and scrub wilderness with a total population of 12,000.

Were any land grants awarded of Floridian parcels to campaign members following 1812 ?
 

bigscoop

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Then there is the Florida Campaign of Gen Andrew Jackson of which Major James Beverly Risqué took part- a campaign that consisted of massacres and looting of the Spanish citizens in the panhandle of Spanish Florida that led to the Adams-Onis Treaty that gave Florida to the US.
Many times it has been noted that the signing and ratification dates of this treaty match the Beale treasure deposit dates given in Ward's published 1885 Beale Papers.
That would provide a curious footnote in the speculative alternative Beale theories, but the most curious footnote is that three of Ward's children moved from Lynchburg to the same Florida panhandle where their grandfather Risqué served during Jackson's Florida Campaign.
The El Camino Real from St Augustine to Pensacola passed through the Campaign territory, and often shipments from the Spanish treasury in St Augustine were shipped on this only road to Pensacola.
Was one of these shipments captured by Jackson?
Was it considered to heavy to transport during the ongoing Florida Campaign and buried for later recovery?
Did Ward hear this story from his grandfather and retell it to his children?
It is curious why these three relocated to an area in the late 1870's that mostly pine tree and scrub wilderness with a total population of 12,000.

Oh the unknowns...pretty much sums up every Beale opinion/theory out there, don't it.
 

ECS

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Were any land grants awarded of Floridian parcels to campaign members following 1812 ?
No, but political positions in Jackson's territorial Florida government were.
James Beverly Risqué wanted a position, hosted along with others, a banquet for Jackson in Lynchburg.
Thomas Jefferson attended along with Pascal Buford.
Risqué did not receive a position in Florida.
 
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Well, here's the thing.... James Beverly Risque became a Real Estate Lawyer, after his move to Lynchburg, Va. & BEFORE his involvement in War of 1812. He bought, owned sold MUCH land in Bedford/Campbell Counties, according to REAL history books of the areas. MAYBE, he sold some Bedford County land to the Lafitte Bros... THEY moved their caches from the Island to Bedford County from LA to MO (via "old Muddy"), which was known as Upper New Orleans; then to "their" land in Bedford County... dunno. Risque also owned several houses in the City of Lynchburg, Va. "Long Black Hair", "Dark Skin" sounds like one of the Lafittes Bros. to me...
 

TN_Guest1523

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Well, here's the thing.... James Beverly Risque became a Real Estate Lawyer, after his move to Lynchburg, Va. & BEFORE his involvement in War of 1812. He bought, owned sold MUCH land in Bedford/Campbell Counties, according to REAL history books of the areas. MAYBE, he sold some Bedford County land to the Lafitte Bros... THEY moved their caches from the Island to Bedford County from LA to MO (via "old Muddy"), which was known as Upper New Orleans; then to "their" land in Bedford County... dunno. Risque also owned several houses in the City of Lynchburg, Va. "Long Black Hair", "Dark Skin" sounds like one of the Lafittes Bros. to me...

I have the place of two graves in New Orleans for the two out of three . Just missing John Lafitte .
 
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Jean died in St. Loo under an "assumed name"; will have to look it up, again. Pierre traveled about, while Jean stayed with "the Loot" (PIRATE "plunder")... it MAY have been Pierre, with the "long black hair" and "darkened skin")... dunno. Pierre & "You" were FreeMasons, Jean was not; Pierre was even Lodge Secretary of his Lodge in "Philly". "You" was "buried" in an above-ground crypt in the French Quarter Cemetery (# 1, think; has Square & Compass symbol on "front door" of his N.O. Crypt... check it out. BTW, "You" was a STEP-BROTHER of Jean & Pierre.
 
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ECS

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The death of Laffite in St Louis in 1851 comes from the "fake" memoirs by Forger John Lafflin.
Jean Lafitte was mortally wounded on his ship, GENERAL SANTANDER, February 5, 1823, when he was encountered in the Gulf of Honduros by two Spanish warships, and was buried at sea.
 

bigscoop

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The death of Laffite in St Louis in 1851 comes from the "fake" memoirs by Forger John Lafflin.
Jean Lafitte was mortally wounded on his ship, GENERAL SANTANDER, February 5, 1823, when he was encountered in the Gulf of Honduros by two Spanish warships, and was buried at sea.

Or so the legend says.....:laughing7:
 

bigscoop

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Most probable compared to Lafflin's forgery for profit journal. :thumbsup:

Did you know that many forgeries contain accurate content? Yep, it's true. So does it really matter who wrote something if the content of that written text contains accurate information?
 

ECS

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As with the Beale Papers with its unprovable plausible ambiguous "facts" ( some accurate information to sell the product), the same has been stated concerning Lafflin's several forged documents, including Lafitte's memoirs.
 

bigscoop

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But that dosen't answer the question given that all we're after in our research is accurate information. Dosen't matter where that accurate information comes from as long as it can be confirmed as being accurate information. The same can be said of secondhand information, he-said-she-said, etc., etc., as long as that information proves accurate it dosen't matter where it came from. Case in point with the Memoirs, some of that information has proven to be accurate. :icon_thumleft:
 

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