WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[ECS]

What we do know for sure is that James Beverly Ward (copyright owner and publisher),Harriet Otey Buford Ward( his wife),
John William Sherman (printer, thespian, playwright), Charles W Button (owner of newspaper that advertised the pamphlet), and Max Guggenheimer (friend and businessman and the only living person mentioned in the Beale Papers during its publication), knew the truth behind the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers.

Consider this sentence from the first paragraph of the 1885 Beale Papers:
"knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to an old and valued friend..."
Several names listed above fit this description, and the "author" is stating that the story is indeed, "all in the family".

 

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[Old Silver]

Consider this sentence from the first paragraph of the 1885 Beale Papers:
"knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to an old and valued friend..."
Several names listed above fit this description, and the "author" is stating that the story is indeed, "all in the family".

I think "immediate family" and "extended family" are two different things.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

May not even be "blood-related"...

 

[ECS]

The discussion on this thread has covered various influences found in the 1885 Beale Papers; the connection and events of the extended Risqué family bloodline, beginning with the duel of Thomas Beale and James Beverly Risqué to the massacre of John Pickrell Risque in 1882 at Gold Gulch, Arizona by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines, the Kennerly branch who maintain a mercantile and outfitters store in St Louis, Julia Hancock, for which the duel was fought, marrying William Clark of Lewis and Clark, various literary and newspaper sources, ciphers from the works of Poe, Dr William Blair, and the Confederacy, and the relationships of those involved with the copyright, printing, publishing, and sale of the job pamphlet.
Analyzing the structure of the text, it is written as a novel of the time period, the encounter with the mysterious Thomas Beale taking a liking to Robert Morris and Sarah, a background of Morriss continues to draw the reader in, and then the "letters" that reveal the treasure from the west brought to Virginia. Note that the "letters" are written as a soliloquy delivered in Iambic Pentameter, a thespian influence, mentioning the "game" being worth the candle, followed by the years and money wasted trying to solve the ciphers and onto the disclaimer of not neglecting your business to solve the C1 & C3 unsolved ciphers-let the matter be.
The author is clearing telling the wary reader that this is only a story with play along ciphers for amusement.
Then the ciphers are presented, with the DOI "solved" C2 describing the "treasure", an inducement to play the game.
Many codebreakers have tried to break C1 & C3 but to no avail, as well as those who have attempted to establish who Thomas Beale was, documentation for any of the events in the narrative text of actually ever happening-No proof outside of the Beale Papers events exists.
In the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's character, Sherlock Holmes:
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,however, must be the truth".
...and
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".
After eliminating the total lack of documented historical evidence of the Beale adventure as actually happening, and a through scrutiny of those involved and the sources employed, the obvious fact that remains is that the 1885 Beale Papers are a clever dime novel with parlor entertainment ciphers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Which could STILL be a "Cover Story"... the "game" is worth the candle, COULD be roasting/cooking a BUFFALO over a CAMPFIRE! Heh...

 

[Old Silver]

The discussion on this thread has covered various influences found in the 1885 Beale Papers; the connection and events of the extended Risqué family bloodline, beginning with the duel of Thomas Beale and James Beverly Risqué to the massacre of John Pickrell Risque in 1882 at Gold Gulch, Arizona by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines, the Kennerly branch who maintain a mercantile and outfitters store in St Louis, Julia Hancock, for which the duel was fought, marrying William Clark of Lewis and Clark, various literary and newspaper sources, ciphers from the works of Poe, Dr William Blair, and the Confederacy, and the relationships of those involved with the copyright, printing, publishing, and sale of the job pamphlet.
Analyzing the structure of the text, it is written as a novel of the time period, the encounter with the mysterious Thomas Beale taking a liking to Robert Morris and Sarah, a background of Morriss continues to draw the reader in, and then the "letters" that reveal the treasure from the west brought to Virginia. Note that the "letters" are written as a soliloquy delivered in Iambic Pentameter, a thespian influence, mentioning the "game" being worth the candle, followed by the years and money wasted trying to solve the ciphers and onto the disclaimer of not neglecting your business to solve the C1 & C3 unsolved ciphers-let the matter be.
The author is clearing telling the wary reader that this is only a story with play along ciphers for amusement.
Then the ciphers are presented, with the DOI "solved" C2 describing the "treasure", an inducement to play the game.
Many codebreakers have tried to break C1 & C3 but to no avail, as well as those who have attempted to establish who Thomas Beale was, documentation for any of the events in the narrative text of actually ever happening-No proof outside of the Beale Papers events exists.
In the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's character, Sherlock Holmes:
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,however, must be the truth".
...and
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".
After eliminating the total lack of documented historical evidence of the Beale adventure as actually happening, and a through scrutiny of those involved and the sources employed, the obvious fact that remains is that the 1885 Beale Papers are a clever dime novel with parlor entertainment ciphers.

You use quotes from a fictional character in a fictional book as proof that another book is fiction? And you misquoted him, to boot.
But notice what was said: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact". And then: "the obvious fact that remains is that the 1885 Beale Papers are a clever dime novel with parlor entertainment ciphers." I guess you're saying you're deceiving yourself with your obvious facts. We'll blame it on Sherlock. Anyway, fact means proof, so I would have to see your proof before I could accept what you're saying as fact. And that, my dear, is elementary.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, let's get legal and/or proper.

"The immediate family is a defined group of relations, used in rules or laws to determine which members of a person's family are affected by those rules. It normally includes a person's parents, spouses, siblings, children and first and second cousins."

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of these "Thomas Beale" had in the region?

 

[Old Silver]

Well, let's get legal and/or proper.

"The immediate family is a defined group of relations, used in rules or laws to determine which members of a person's family are affected by those rules. It normally includes a person's parents, spouses, siblings, children and first and second cousins."

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of these "Thomas Beale" had in the region?

I don't know, but there were plenty of Beales in VA and surrounding states.

 

[ECS]

... fact means proof, so I would have to see your proof before I could accept what you're saying as fact. And that, my dear, is elementary.

Since your first post on this thread, Nov 4, 2013 # 612, you have dogged me for "proof", without providing any to support your position in this discussion, whatever it my be. You do seem to flip flop at times.
So are you just being contrary with your constant haranguing, or is it that you just don't understand the information that has been brought forth and presented on this thread?

 

[ECS]

Well, let's get legal and/or proper.

"The immediate family is a defined group of relations, used in rules or laws to determine which members of a person's family are affected by those rules. It normally includes a person's parents, spouses, siblings, children and first and second cousins."
...

James Beverly Ward, Harriet Otey Buford Ward, F C Hutter, and John William Sherman fit the "immediate family" qualification, and Max Guggenheimer an "old and value friend".

 

[ECS]

Consider this sentence from the first paragraph of the 1885 Beale Papers:
"knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to an old and valued friend..."
...the "author" is stating that the story is indeed, "all in the family".

With whom was Robert Morris living with in the last days of his life?
Who purchased Robert Morris's home?

 

[Old Silver]

Since your first post on this thread, Nov 4, 2013 # 612, you have dogged me for "proof", without providing any to support your position in this discussion, whatever it my be. You do seem to flip flop at times.
So are you just being contrary with your constant haranguing, or is it that you just don't understand the information that has been brought forth and presented on this thread?

Oh now, ESC, you have to play nice. I know you don't like people questioning your ideas, but we all get that, so you're not unique. If you're going to post on a forum, you have to be able to take questions. And you have to understand that there are other posters who see things differently than you. So if you can't play nice, maybe forums are not your thing. YOU are the one who always brings out the thing of there being no proof for the Beale story, and that is why I call you on your statements that the Beale story IS this or that. The point is, there is no hard proof either for, or against. As long as you claim to KNOW, I will ask you to SHOW. So if you don't want to be asked for proof, then stop saying there is no proof for things you don't want to believe.

 

[ECS]

Yes, you are fond of skinnin' that smoke wagon, but when you are "called", as you put it, you start whistling "Mary had a little lamb".
Now, have I ever stated that I have hard proof, or that I solved the ciphers, or anything else that you have assumed?
No, I have not.
I have presented the toils of my research concerning the construction of the Beale Papers and those that were involved in the various aspects of bringing it for sale, and yes, those are legitimate documented facts.
Now, there are NO legitimate documented evidence that exist that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers ever actually happened outside of that job pamphlet text.
If you are so concerned about answers and proof, as I have requested before, facts that prove that the Beale Papers are a real account of actual events without the maybe, could have desultory anachronistic facts that you have posted on several threads, please bring it forth.
In closing, I must inquire why, and this is the third time of which I am aware, you make reference that this forum is not the place for me. This is beginning to feel personal. Is it?
...and what did you mean that "now I have to play nice"?
Please explain.

 

[ECS]

... What were you trying to do with that, get me in trouble with the mods?

Trust me, you do not need my assistance to accomplish that endeavor.

 

[Old Silver]

Yes, you are fond of skinnin' that smoke wagon, but when you are "called", as you put it, you start whistling "Mary had a little lamb".
Now, have I ever stated that I have hard proof, or that I solved the ciphers, or anything else that you have assumed?
No, I have not.
I have presented the toils of my research concerning the construction of the Beale Papers and those that were involved in the various aspects of bringing it for sale, and yes, those are legitimate documented facts.
Now, there are NO legitimate documented evidence that exist that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers ever actually happened outside of that job pamphlet text.
If you are so concerned about answers and proof, as I have requested before, facts that prove that the Beale Papers are a real account of actual events without the maybe, could have desultory anachronistic that you have posted on several threads.
In closing, I must inquire why, and this is the third time of which I am aware, you make reference that this forum is not the place for me. This is beginning to feel personal. Is it?
...and what did you mean that "now I have to play nice"?
Please explain.

You might have facts concerning those people, but your conclusions are not proven. And yes, you have claimed what I have said you have claimed. No need to ask where it is, since all you need to do is go back and read the posts.

It's YOU who cries NO PROOF, just as in your post above. When I throw that back on you, I'm only holding you to your own standards. You like to talk about how there is no proof of the Beale story being true. Okay, for the most part I agree, and have said so. But then you turn around and positively state that the Beale papers are a dime novel. You have the same burden of proof as anyone else, and your favorite theory has the same burden of proof as anyone elses theory.

Skinnin' that smoke wagon. Wow, it seems I've been given my own western dime novel. Thank you, ECS, but really, I'm not sure I deserve such fame. And BTW, the word "called" is legitimate as I used it. Research it.

I didn't say this forum is not a place for you. I said if you can't stand other poster's views, then MAYBE you forums are not your thing. But that's totally up to you. Just understand that when you crow about no proof, and then claim a theory as the way it is, you are going to be CALLED on it.

 

[Old Silver]

Trust me, you do not need my assistance to accomplish that endeavor.

Then why were you trying to do that?

 

[jeff of pa]

keep things on topic Please !

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The EF Beale Papers DOES sound interesting; nothing "on-line"...? Only in the LOC...? They DO have some "on-line" stuff, I think...

 

[ECS]

George Hart, after publishing THE HART PAPERS, introduced Pauline Innis to a member of the Otey who showed her an iron box with a torn paper sheet with numbers written upon it. This is recounted in her "GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE".
Now according to the Hart's, they first became aware of the Beale treasure in the summer of 1897, when Newton Hazelwood asked Clayton Hart to make copies of pages containing ciphers.
What makes this curious is this:
Pascal Buford of BUFORD's INN was married to an Otey, James Beverly Ward's wife was Harriet Otey Buford, was born and raised "4 miles from Buford's, and Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey, and was related to Newton Hazelwood.
One would think that Hart's would have been aware of the Beale Papers well before of Hazelwood's request, within the Otey family lore.(The otey family is also a part of the Risqué extended family that has been discussed on this thread)
Also, there is NO mention of an iron box in "THE HART PAPERS".
So, what iron box was shown to Pauline Innis?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NOT certain... BUT! Didn't Hazlewood just mention a TREASURE... NOT a BEALE TREASURE to Clayton Hart...? Just a TREASURE.... NOTHING about the "Beale Expedition", Robert MORRISS/MORRIS, TJB/Thomas J. Beale, etc...? Gotta read the HART PAPERS, again... COULDA been "4 miles of Buford's" STATION, in current MONTVALE, Va. woulda "hit" Newton Hazlewood's property (EAST of current Montvale, Va.)... AND! It IS towards the "PEAKS".