We still have a lot of resistance working against us

[Jeff95531]

Some here have questioned how we in CA let all the restrictions happen to us. Truth is, we didn't know much which is the way they wanted it. We also didn't know the scope of pressure behind the scenes pushing for these changes and land grabs.

So this morning, I decided to play devil's advocate. I Googled:

is gold mining bad for the environment
Google came back with 1,110,000 hits

Then I typed in:
is gold mining good for the environment
Google came back with 11,400,000 hits

Obviously I didn't look at them all, but suffice to say all I saw was derogatory in BOTH queries and many specifically say "small scale miner".

And the one who made it to the top of the list in BOTH questions Brilliant Earth.

Dirty Gold Mining Facts & Issues - Conflict Gold

And yet, the above sells diamonds...no doubt from Africa, dangerously mined and slave wages to all. No conflict there right? They sell "green" diamonds..."conflict free"

And a surprise basher. The SMITHSONIAN.
The Environmental Disaster That is the Gold Industry | Science | Smithsonian

Problem is, when you hear Gold Mining BAD 12,000,000 times, people tend to believe it.

Thought you should know.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

I know nothing about the effects of dredging, or Calif situation and I want to dredge.
Well, you've come to the right place to learn. That in itself is a good start!

My point was I don't see the EPA or some Enviro's as enemies as a group.
It's not the individual, it's those they've allowed to speak for them. Your average member is not the problem, as a rule they're caring people that only want to see the world be cleaned up. It's the group leadership that has gotten out of hand. They have learned that they can line their pockets at the expense of the American tax payers. Once they figured that little gem out, most thoughts of actually doing some good got put on the back burner when they learned how much money could be made. Just follow the money and you'll see what I mean. The boards of these groups have some outrageously high salaries.

We have a horriable, dangerous mess to Thousands if not millions, and the EPA and Enviro's have been fighting to clean it up and hold the people who did it responsible. I doubt that they will get them,
Yes there is a mess that needs cleaning up. However, in the overall view, only a low percentage of the Mercury they're screaming about actually came from mining back in the 1800s. Many areas of California have a large amount of Cinnabar which is a natural ore of Mercury. It releases Mercury over time and it ends up in the watersheds thanks to Mother Nature. This natural Mercury has been building up since time began. Many of the green groups just don't seem to be able to understand that even if man had never mined the areas in question, there would still be Mercury in them. Modern miners have cleaned up a lot of Mercury over the years and if given a chance will continue to do so. They do this for free and are happy about it. It costs the tax payers nothing while if the green plan is followed, the taxpayers will be paying through the nose. As far as holding the persons who did it responsible for their actions, that's going to be hard to do since they've been dead for over a hundred years or in the case of Mother Nature never really lived at all. The green groups though have attempted to shift the blame to the modern miners who in truth are not the culprits. We clean up both natural and "legacy" Mercury.

meanwhile they are using taxpayers money to try and clean it up.
This is one of the main rubs with me. Why should the tax payers pay some green group to have the mercury removed when miners will do the same service for free? A suction dredge will remove about 98% of the Mercury it comes across. the advertised rates for the methods the green groups have proposed is only about 90-92%. So.. A more effective method of removal that doesn't cost the tax payers a cent or a less effective method that will cost the tax payers millions? You decide.

I would hope that truth will win in the end, but it is a real problem for average people to mount a EXPENSIVE legal representation to speak their beliefs. I cannot afford to have a attorney on call to fight for my interest.
The miners have been dealing in truth since this whole fiasco started. The green groups however have been using lies, false science and scare tactics to push their agenda(s) forward. They have been abusing the EAJA to get the tax payers to pay for their lawsuits while miners have pretty much been left out in the cold in that respect. Speaking ones beliefs is actually free. Fighting for them in court is what costs! Imagine a world where the laws were written in plain language and lawyers were not needed to decipher them!

No I do not agree with blankenstien, I think he is trying to start a fight
Glad to hear that and you're right. He was spoiling for a fight and the members here refused to stoop to his level.

As you spend more time on this forum, you're going to find that the majority here are very level headed for the most part and well informed. We take the time to learn and understand the issues at hand. There is a ton of good information here and we're willing to share it so others can learn about both mining methods and issues. There is no reason that the mining community and the green groups can't work hand in hand to the benefit of all the people. Most miners I know would be all for it, but the greenies will have to come to their senses, stop pointing fingers and start being honest with themselves and the public before this can happen.

 

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[fowledup]

From an environmental stand point I see dredging as a good thing. Mercury for example is 13.6 times heavier then water. So it will stay in the pan or the sluice.

Down side that I can see is how do we miners get rid of the mercury we recover in a legal manner. I think in the long run it would help not hurt. I also think the state should A) Reward us for cleaning up the environment and B) Put a provision into place to accept the mercury waste we do recover with no fines fee's or charges. Lets not forget the lead we bring out also. I don't find a lot of gold when I go out but I usually find some shot gun shot.

Scoy- That is the easiest part of the entire equation to solve, in fact the process is already in place. At the minute quantities we are speaking of special licenses, permits, and transportaion requirements are not required. Teaching safe handling practices are a brochure and short video away. Disposal is as simple as placing an appropriate container next to the existing waste flourescent tubes and CFL bin at your local County Household Waste Facility. Our facility is operated by local developmentally challenged citizens. The proceeds from the recycled materials in part fund the program. A huge win for the environment and the people. That is the type of common sense environmentalism I support! So if it's that simple; Why are we paying a "non-profit enviromental orgainzation" NINE million dollars and counting of tax payer dollars to "clean up" just ONE out of hundreds of contaminated waterways in this state.

 

[scoy]

I run a metallurgical lab for the company I work for they are a battery recycler and a precious metals processor we process all types of battery chemistries and auto catalyst so I'm fully aware of environmental regulations for corporate America however I was not aware of the small quantity generator rules you just outlined for say a miner and what the rules would be for us. Hence my questions,
thanks for that. where is your facility located. There is a place down the street from us same type of set up.

 

[goldenIrishman]

You nailed it Fowled! The problem for miners has never been getting the Mercury out of the streams and rivers. We do that quite well. It's having good places to turn it in that has always been the drawback. There are a number of simple ways to fix this as you mentioned, but the politicians never think simple. They always have to complicate everything beyond belief.

 

[fowledup]

I run a metallurgical lab for the company I work for they are a battery recycler and a precious metals processor we process all types of battery chemistries and auto catalyst so I'm fully aware of environmental regulations for corporate America however I was not aware of the small quantity generator rules you just outlined for say a miner and what the rules would be for us. Hence my questions,
thanks for that. where is your facility located. There is a place down the street from us same type of set up.

I'm in Northern California. I'm not sure I need to check into it a little more but I don't believe it would even qualify for small quantity generator status, more then likely it would be exempt, or should be if they did it right in the program set up.

 

[KevinInColorado]

The public universities in most states have labs that will take your mercury for safe reprocessing. Here it's Colorado State University...

 

[Goldwasher]

The Irony and proof that small scale miners who recover mercury aren't burden by shipping or possession rules for mercury is the fact that you can buy it and have it shipped to you in the lower 48 and Canada. Including Ca......Considering I get lots of fun catalogs with warnings that say "cannot be shipped to Ca.Triple Distilled Mercury Metal (quicksilver) half pound for sale. Buy from The Science Company...........

 

[Prospector70]

The Irony and proof that small scale miners who recover mercury aren't burden by shipping or possession rules for mercury is the fact that you can buy it and have it shipped to you in the lower 48 and Canada. Including Ca......Considering I get lots of fun catalogs with warnings that say "cannot be shipped to Ca.Triple Distilled Mercury Metal (quicksilver) half pound for sale. Buy from The Science Company...........

I can imagine the sierra people buying 55 gallon drums of this stuff to overcharge the good people of Cali... If they lie and cheat why not steal too?

 

[markmopar]

Don't give 'em any ideas...

 

[Mstoki]

And yet, the above sells diamonds...no doubt from Africa, dangerously mined and slave wages to all. No conflict there right? They sell "green" diamonds..."conflict free"

I am very sensitive about the conflicts .... Can anyone confirm to me that(spam link deleted) they are produced in a humane manner

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I am very sensitive about the conflicts .... Can anyone confirm to me that(spam link deleted) they are produced in a humane manner

No, but I can confirm your banned for being a spammer.

 

[wildminer]

Nicely put, TH!