Went to Vermont, Connecticut, and New Jersey in an hour and a half.

hogge · Sep 13, 2017

3 state coppers, a large cent, Spanish 1 real, a KG III, and a Cft Irish half penny. Not bad for an hour and a half. I found the Conn,( my 16th), and the 1 real. DigginitRTB found the other 5. The Vermont is a COUNTERFEIT, close to Ryder 3 but letters and spacing don't match die. Coin is DEFINITELY a alloy based contemporary Cft. First I've seen. Waiting on call back from Tony Carlotto. Only posted clean pics of the Vt. The others, although identifiable, coins are shot. VT has file marks on edge.Hoping IP or DON can pipe in as this is a first for us. Never seen a contemporary Cft. VT.

sutphin · Sep 14, 2017

YOUR DARN TOOTIN ITS NICE.

bill_wabo · Sep 14, 2017

That was short but intense! Finding pre 1800 coins in each state in the same day, impressive. Thanks for posting, can't wait to see more pics.

trdking · Sep 14, 2017

OMG WOW!

1235CE · Sep 14, 2017

Awesome Todd!!...great job!!!!.....does that Mass. copper still allude you??.....in Mass....go figure, lol.....

HH all!

Greg

hogge · Sep 14, 2017

No Ma. for me yet. But a friend of mine found one at a spot we had POUNDED about literally 50 times.

The Rebel · Sep 14, 2017

Awesome! Love my state coppers!

Iron Patch · Sep 14, 2017

hogge · Sep 14, 2017

Iron Patch said:
Definitely need better quality pics, but still looks like Ryder 3 to me.

It's hard to judge from the pics, but the one clear difference I could find makes your coin match Ryder3.

My first thought was ryder3. Spacing, points of interest, etc.....lines up. The "IC"....all of that. What is puzzling to me is why "L" in PUBLICA doesn't line up with the landscape as it does on your pics. Our coin has the "L" at the bottom of the landscape and yours is towards the top. LOOK at the "I" also. It's below the landscape whereas yours is lined up with the bottom. The BACK of the "L" is also positioned across from the top of the suns eyeball in your pic. Ours is at the bottom of the eyeball. Could this be a different variety of RR-3 not known? I hope so!You can see that the top right half of landscape is missing due to a flaw in planchet. Definitely a RR-3....I'm with ya on that one.....But you can plainly see "PUBLICA" lettering is not where it should be.....correct? I think I got a winner.....If in fact it's real and not CFT.

basque-man · Sep 14, 2017

Very nice haul on some OLD coins!!!!! :occasion14:

Iron Patch · Sep 14, 2017

hogge said:
My first thought was ryder3. Spacing, points of interest, etc.....lines up. The "IC"....all of that. What is puzzling to me is why "L" in PUBLICA doesn't line up with the landscape as it does on your pics. Our coin has the "L" at the bottom of the landscape and yours is towards the top. LOOK at the "I" also. It's below the landscape whereas yours is lined up with the bottom. The BACK of the "L" is also positioned across from the top of the suns eyeball in your pic. Ours is at the bottom of the eyeball. Could this be a different variety of RR-3 not known? I hope so!You can see that the top right half of landscape is missing due to a flaw in planchet. Definitely a RR-3....I'm with ya on that one.....But you can plainly see "PUBLICA" lettering is not where it should be.....correct? I think I got a winner.....If in fact it's real and not CFT.

I see the positioning of the L seeming to match when compared to the landscape, but I do see what you mean about being on a different level than the eyeballs of the sun. Is your coin bent?

hogge · Sep 14, 2017

Iron Patch said:
I see the positioning of the L seeming to match when compared to the landscape, but I do see what you mean about being on a different level than the eyeballs of the sun. Is your coin bent?

Forget the eyeballs thing.... Just another way to alaign the "L". YES..... You see the difference. So "LICA" is lower. Coin is not bent. If rr2 and rr3 only had one die each obverse and reverse, how can this be?

vermonster · Sep 14, 2017

Wow Buzzy you guys had a great day!!!Congrats on all your finds!!!

Iron Patch · Sep 14, 2017

hogge said:
Forget the eyeballs thing.... Just another way to alaign the "L". YES..... You see the difference. So "LICA" is lower. Coin is not bent. If rr2 and rr3 only had one die each obverse and reverse, how can this be?

You really need better pics!

Pictures can be deceiving in general, so it's basically impossible to be confident when they are blurry. It's definitely interesting what you are saying, and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility to find a Vermont with a new obverse die. Even if based on the composition it's determined to be counterfeit, it's still a struck coin with a ctft die that no one has seen and would still be a sought after coin. But obviously being genuine would be the money!

hogge · Sep 14, 2017

Here are 2 much better pics of coin. Still has some dirt in detail.

Iron Patch · Sep 15, 2017

Iron Patch · Sep 15, 2017

Damn I agree! Either it's a cast counterfeit where they made a mold from 2 different VTs, (or at some point matched two) or a Ryder2 -Ryder3 new variety!

realeswatcher · Sep 15, 2017

Not any kind of devoted (post-)colonial copper person, but...... Taking your word(s) for it that RR-2 and RR-3 ARE indeed the only potential options for the landscape side (I don't know the series off-hand), there are numerous differentiating diagnostic points between those two -- e.g., the first sun ray (from left) vs. the adjacent tree, the spacing of L I C, etc.

The landscape side would appear to be definitively RR-3 (Ryder-3).

That issue aside... Looking at the parts that are struck up, the technical grade (just in terms of wear) is quite high - XF-AU. Note how bold the eye is... That void (which looks to be a large planchet flaw) and the date being very faint (strike in general is uneven) negatively impact it somewhat. However, the environmental impacts don't look bad at all (fairly decent surfaces under the scattered crusted dirt - looking at other examples, the RR-3 planchets are typically quite porous as made - let alone after some ground time). Conserve carefully/conservatively!

Great find. A check of the Heritage and Stack's archives should provide sufficient price guidance (search RR-3, the typical shorthand nomenclature, rather than Ryder-3).

Iron Patch · Sep 15, 2017

Iron Patch · Sep 15, 2017

Hogge, did a little reading and you're friend is golden either way! I'm convinced it's something incredible! Read the description of Ryder 5 below. It's a WIN - WIN situation. :occasion14:

It basically means it's going to be a new variety struck or cast. Now that is something! :blob8:

1785 VERMONT COPPER -
RYDER 5Rarity: Extremely Rare
Variety equivalents:
Breen 735

Notes:
Despite the fact that all examples of the Ryder 5 are counterfeits, they are still eagerly collected as part of the Vermont Coppers series. Two types are known -- cast copies and struck copies. All are extremely rare, with the struck copy being the rarer of the two. In recent years, fakes of the cast copies have appeared on the market. Unfortunately, the only way to tell the fakes is to compare them to known examples (because they were cast, each coin carries its own individual characteristics, much like snowflakes, so if you find two coins with similar or identical characteristics, one or both is/are fake). Generally, collectors only have to contend with fakes of real coins. In this case, they must beware of fakes of fakes!

Iron Patch · Sep 15, 2017

Final thought. Given how sharp the coin is, not looking cast at all, at least to me, and especially that it would have be a cast counterfeit from 2 different coins... I can't see how this will not be a genuine VT new variety. That's what makes the most sense. Oh, unless it's a cast counterfeit of a variety that is not known to exist... so if it did happen to be cast I think that would be a plausible theory.