What a shame here in Oregon!

[bigmike]

Just wanted to rant and blow off some steam. Here in southeast oregon we have some of the best artifact hunting in the country. My grandpa, uncles, cousins and I have hunted them for years. The past couple years natives from up north have complained about people around here using equipment to dig up burial sites and selling artifacts and human remains online. They went to Salem and pitched a fit and next thing you know, the governor had department of state lands temporarily close the lakes to public access. So 2 years have went by and this year Department of state lands has meeting with public about permanent closures of lakes. They had to address local public in a meeting. End result is 2 lakes that are public property are closed down, can’t even ride an atv or run your dog out there. If you are caught you will get a warning and possibly trespassing ticket. If you have a firearm, which most people carry out in the desert, it could be a felony trespass ticket.
everyone I know that collects artifacts here does not sell them. There are people that do but I don’t know any personally. Never had I seen anyone using equipment digging for artifacts. I and all my friends and family consider it taboo to even mess with bones let alone sell them. It’s getting to be the time of year to go look for artifacts and all the good places are closed down. What a shame that a longtime hobby of my family and a lot of friends has been stripped from us! Too much government control on things anymore!
Sorry for the rant, wanted to let people know in case they visit here for artifacts so they don’t end up in court!

Mike

 

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[3cylbill]

I wouldn't put it past the government to ..make up a ....STORY just to Americans away....

 

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[Hillbilly Prince]

Unfortunately you are right unclemac. I moved back to Oregon to enjoy going out to the desert and riding my atv on the endless miles of roads and enjoy the Oregon I remember years ago. Forest service closed hundreds of miles of roads because they don’t want to maintain them, BLM making wilderness areas that you cannot go into unless on foot, state lands being closed to any kind of activity. It’s just a sad deal. I moved away from California because of this same kind of thing and now that mindset is moving north. All the older generation is just sick over all of the changes.

Have you guys considered legal action?

 

[Plumbata]

I'll give my perspective as a former archaeologist... I'm very open when it comes to metal detecting, surface collecting, and so forth. I've had a metal detector since I was a teen.

Wow, I never thought I'd see a unicorn, but an Archaeologist who supports private detecting and surface collecting certainly fits the bill!

 

[unclemac]

I'll give my perspective as a former archaeologist. Pretty much all parks in any state are 'off limits' when it comes to surface collecting, whether it be 'artifacts' or pretty rocks. That's the product of the state/federal governments assuming complete control over everything. Do I agree with that, not necessarily. There is never enough money, nor enough archaeologists to fund excavations where concentrations or artifacts are to locate potential sites. So one part of the no collecting is to leave it be for future potential excavations and the other side of the coin is simply, we (whatever government entity you speak of) owns the land and everything on it.

As far as pot hunting/grave robbing, it definitely exists and is a problem. There were prehistoric Indian sites I excavated with burials that we had to camp out overnight on, because once word got out burials were found, night time stealth diggings would occur. The phrase of one bad apple spoils the bunch definitely applies here. You do have a very small minority of people that ruin it for everyone. Just look at how metal detectorists have had a stigma with them because of a small minority of people using them illegally on national battlefields and such. I'm very open when it comes to metal detecting, surface collecting, and so forth. I've had a metal detector since I was a teen. Grave robbing, however, is where I do draw the line. Whether it be Native American graves, or any other peoples. It's illegal, and just morally wrong. Would you care for someone to go to the local cemetery and dig up a relative?

Someone mentioned the Native American lady claiming to have seen someone dig up a burial. When it comes to this, I think you need to step back with a different perspective. Native Americans have been crapped on since the first Europeans arrived. The NAGPRA act in 1990 was the first time they essentially became empowered over their culture. I'm not saying it is right all or most of the time, but they are simply exuding power that has been lost for generations. The Kennewick Man debacle is one of those instances in which I disagree with the powers that come with NAGPRA. So even as sketchy as it may be sometimes, you cannot help but blame them for trying to protect their culture...whether it be simple power plays or an earnest attempt at protection for cultural reasons.

We all need to face the fact that we have lost dominion over our 'public' lands. The only choices we have are to bicker about it on here, or try to get legislative change accomplished. The reality is that Native Americans now have much more control/say over anything created by their cultures, so fighting that isn't going to be a winnable battle in all honesty.

my grandfather owned a farm in Naperville Il. along the DuPage river. when the family owned it there were many burials along the river in the woods that they owned (now a park). The story (local lore) was the last indian in Illinois was buried there. When my family owned it they picked up boxes of arrowheads and such from the fields but grandpa wouldn't let them touch the mounds. Today they are all empty holes in the ground among the trees.

 

[catherine1]

Maybe your dictators, or those who have authority over you........should say what you mean, without them. I know you are afraid of your government/redcoats.........and you can't say that.

 

[bigmike]

A couple of my friends know attorneys and have contacted them. So far nobody has wanted to try tackling it. Letters have went out to governor but now that they changed the legal clause on searching for and having artifacts, it has really tightened it up where there are no loopholes and hard to fight. It is still a work in progress as we speak and a good friend of mine is really pursuing it to try to get it lifted so that a person can at least be on the property. Time will tell, but not getting the hopes up too high. Any kind of legal options you guys may throw out there would be appreciated. I think we are all open to anything that may help open the property to use again.

 

[Dragonscout]

I am as averse to unnecessary legislation as any of you, but here a couple of things to consider. In a state that's as liberal leaning as Oregon, you may have to join 'em to beat 'em. Go to those in the committee and suggest that they add clauses that cover legitimate detectorists. Most clubs have a code that includes and mandates that members detect in a responsible fashion, E.G.- have identification at all times as a member, specify that all holes must be repaired to original state, and (grrrrr) a license or fee be paid to the state for use of the parks or land. I REALLY hate these suggestions, but it may be the only way to fight this as once this type of law goes on the books, it's rarely overturned as big money liberal groups (Sierra Club, PETA, etc.)can pour more money against it than even we can uncover. just my .02...

 

[Riverbum]

Many will consider my option wrong. Why in the world would you tell anyone about where , what, maybe how you found any artifact ? Its as simple as finding gold to me, keep your mouth SHUT. I would only discuss finds with close friend who do the same activities as me. No trust for our Government as far as I'm concerned when $$$ is involved. There is no doubt that there are several sets of "eyes" watching our post anyway. I find people who do the most bragging to others are the ones putting themselves in jeopardy