What could it be?

[tchimes]

Hey All

I was out walking in an area that was once one of the largest Creek Indian cites. I was just out to clear my mind, not really doing anything when I spotted this and picked it up. Any thoughts?
Its about 3" in length, 2 1/4 " in width at wide end and 3/4 " thick. Thickness is very uniform.

 

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[Atlantis0077]

Howdy,

Looks very suspiciously like a rock to me.... But as with other things, context must be taken into consideration....what else is around it. It doesnt appear to have any holes, grooves are worn places. Just cant tell for sure.

Atlantis

 

[Cannonman17]

It's a rock.

 

[Rhett Butler]

In Alabama, We call that a"Indian Sex Stone"

 

[EDDE]

In Alabama, We call that a"Indian Sex Stone"

they are everywhere

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello,
Looks like it is just an interesting rock - however I would like to ask if you could post a couple of photos showing the stone in a profile/ edgewise? From this photo it looks like it has raised ridges, one down the center and along the edges? Is that the way it looks in hand?

Even if it does have raised ridges, does not automatically make it an Amerindian artifact - still can be just an interesting rock. If it does have the raised ridges, I would want to look at it very closely with a good magnifying glass and look for signs of "grinding" (scratches) which would lend support to the idea that it was indeed modified by the hand of man - however nature also causes scratches and grinding marks so that is no absolute proof either.

Amerindians also picked up interesting-shaped stones and kept them for "charms" (or "fetishes") so...something like this, which in shape is suggestive of an arrow or spear point might have had attraction as a sign from the Great Spirit, so it is not inconceivable that this was in fact used by native peoples in some way. You mentioned that this was found in a known Creek Indian site, which lends support to the idea that it may well have been possessed by an Amerindian. Certainly worth returning to that site and doing some more hunting!

Neat stone regardless of whether it is just a rock or not - I would keep it, if I had found it myself, but would call it an "Indian Weather Rock" (If rock looks wet, it is raining, it rock is casting shadow, it is clear and sunny, it rock is moving it is raining etc).
Oroblanco

 

[tchimes]

Thanks Roy for the reply

It indeed does have a ridge up the middle and then around the edges, ever so slight as they are. The other interesting thing is it has many small specs of gold in the face of it, Hard to see in the pic, sorry, old digital camera.

Where I picked it up is a place called Talasi, which was one of the larger Creek Indian cities. There is even mention of it in De soto's mens journal entries when they came through this area. So the place has been around several centuries or more. No one ever goes there anymore, not even the University folks, which I think is strange. Not that it is so remote, it is within a couple of miles of state and county highways, but the only access is through a huge cotton farmers plantation, in fact it is now part of his land.

Another interesting fact is this place is not more ten miles south of Alabama's most productive gold mining area. Which I wonder around from time to time. At one time nearly 40 mines were worked in the early 1800s to early 1900s.

Just some added info on the area. I had to laugh at the Indian Sex Stone, I have not heard that in years, normally I refer to such as AFR!

KAS
tchimes

 

[Oroblanco]

I have read of Talasi! I was in contact with a fellow a few years ago who found a silver spur with the name H. De Soto and some other odd artifacts in a place where DeSoto is not supposed to have been. (LT magazine ran an article on the find, can't recall which issue.) The fact that you found this in such a spot is an important factor NOT to assume this is "just a rock" (as prospectors call "Leverite" short for "leave 'er right where you found her") but very well could be a "fetish" stone. I envy your hunting site, you will likely find many more interesting artifacts there! Heck you never know just what you will find! Good luck and good hunting to you!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[tchimes]

Hey Roy

It is documented that De Soto and his men did travel this area. In fact I took there supposed trail and then superimposed it over some old maps that showed Indian trails along the river. Now some of the trail is now under the waters of Lake Martin, however there are portions still accessable down river from Martin. I have walked them, though many areas are very overgrown now. At times it takes a good eye and the experience of one that has lived in the woods to follow and reconnect the dots. There is still evidence of camps all along the trail. Some are no more than overhang shelters, others are clearings under huge old cypress trees. What amazed me was the size of the cypress trees I encountered in some areas. I have lived and hiked the woods most of my life and have never before seen such large cypress trees. I was in awe of them. Most of the cypress in the south had been logged to near extinction in the Great Depression period and some time there after. Even though most of the area is within a few miles of civilization, I have never encountered another living soul. An eerie calm seems to hang in the air, at times not a sound can be heard. But then you have this feeling at times that people are all around, but none in sight. I have sat and watched as Golden Eagles dive and catch fish in the river, the whole area is alive with wildlife. I often wonder what it was like to have lived when the Creek Indians flourished. They were one of the few tribes that took up the ways of the white man.

It was nearly the heat of the summer when I put everything together to be able to retrace the footsteps of De Soto so I have done Little yet. Like I said it gets pretty rough in places and summer in the south is not the time to be hip to neck high out in the brush, far to many snakes and the occasional gator now. Then there are the wild pigs to. I will be out more as things cool down and the underbrush retreats. What I may find, maybe nothing, but there are possibilities.

My goal this winter is to backpack in and retrace the trail from Modern Day Tallassee, along the river to Wetumpka. Along this route there were many Villages, a couple of long gone towns, Militia forts, ferry crossings as well as this same trail being used by Confederate and later Union forces. Most of what was, vanished by the early 1700s.The funny part, not one darn modern home any where along my route even in this day and time. It will be a great trek if nothing else, camping where once long ago braves may have camped, or soldiers or even De Soto. With copies of the maps, compass, some beans,rice, bacon and coffee I will relieve the past as close as one can these days and if that is all that comes of it, it will be rewarding. Oh of course I will have my trusty journal, my digital camera and Ole BH, my trusty detector,LOL. Oh if you hear an odd metal clanking sound thats me, its my old coffee pot swinging into my pack!

Take care Friend

tchimes

 

[deepsix47]

In Alabama, We call that a"Indian Sex Stone"

Ya know what an "Indian Sex Stone" is don't ya??

A "F*#@^n Rock"

Ok, sorry about that (not really, it just kinda came out ). I'm with ORO, would like to see side views.
Deepsix

 

[tchimes]

I had to laugh at the Indian Sex Stone, I have not heard that in years, normally I refer to such as AFR!

AFR- Another Furking Rock!

It may well be as I to have said in another post.


KAS
tchimes

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again - sounds like you are going to have a great time! That is what treasure hunting is really about isn't it? Robert Service put it best IMO - "There is gold and it is haunting and haunting, luring me on as of old, but it's not the gold that I'm wanting, so much as just finding the gold" not sure if that is verbatim, and "gold" isn't always in the form of heavy yellow metal - sometimes it is in the clear air, quiet, wildlife and gorgeous scenery. Keep us posted of how you do? (Or me anyway?) I got a feeling you are going to find something great!

Good luck and good hunting buddy!

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Cannonman17]

That does sound like a very interesting site to hunt around/research more. As for the rock on top of the page- While I would have to see a scan of the other side to say 100% but I'm pretty sure now that it's just a rock- you're not supposed to take offense to that tc- one of the very few things that I know a little about is artifacts. Oro- you suggesting that this is a charm of some sort is interesting. I suppose it could be, so could any other rock out there though.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello Cannonman,
I did not make any claim to being an "expert" in Indian artifacts, and consider myself very much an amateur despite having hunted and collected them most of my life and possessing a small library for reference. My suggestion that it could be a fetish depends on if what appear to be "ridges" on it actually ARE ridges and the provenance of the find; I have seen fetish stones, shells and beads as well as interesting "knots" of wood that are in museums and labeled as fetishes. It could very well be a ROCK of no significance other than being interesting looking, in which case if I had found it, I would still keep it but not with the collection of arrowheads, spear points, pottery, pottery shards etc. I certainly took no offense at any posted reply here, and have seen many of your posts in Indian artifacts that I am totally in agreement with. I was only saying that it is possible, based on what appear to be raised ridges and the location of the find (in a major Creek Indian village) are worthy of further research.

Your statement, quote
"Oro- you suggesting that this is a charm of some sort is interesting. I suppose it could be, so could any other rock out there though."
end quote
Is stretching things a bit isn't it? Or am I misreading your post - you don't mean to say that any old rock has as good a chance of being an artifact (specifically a charm or fetish) right? If this stone had a hole drilled in it for stringing it, I would go ahead and say it definitely is a charm/fetish, and the resemblance to an arrow point is deliberate - however not all charms were worn nor intended to be worn - for instance the "sacred bundles" held by many tribes hold fetishes and symbolic items but were never intended to be worn, at least not separately. I am pretty sure I am not telling you anything you didn't already know, just mentioning it for the readers who are not aware.

Somewhere around here I have a fetish stone (or charm) of the "pregnant mother" type, of a type of stone I have never seen a charm made, (a blue PA slate) recovered along with stone beads, points etc if I can find it I will try to post it here as it is the only charm I possess. (I didn't even find it, my father in law dug it up) Unfortunately since moving here the vast majority of our possessions are packed in storage, so I can't promise to find it soon.

Cannonman your post hints at a questioning of my own "expertise" in this area, despite the fact that I have made no claims to being an expert in the field; perhaps because of my suggesting a possible different answer to this particular artifact from what your conclusion is? I will say that I have been hunting and collecting Indian artifacts for over forty years, with varying success and two complete disasters (once had my collection of Indian artifacts [as well as a fairly good coin collection] stolen and never recovered, started over collecting and had a fire which destroyed everything except the points which became black, coated with melted aluminum siding and several were cracked so these are buried) but slowly have managed to re-build the collection through hunting and a couple of gifts from relatives, like the only fetish in my collection and a set of mano and metate that my mother found in her field while removing stones plowed up. I have had a deep interest in Amerindian history and culture as long as I can remember and have studied on my own in the subject. I have had a couple of articles published on Amerindians, which does not make me an "expert" either. My wife and I have participated in "official" archaeological digs, albeit as volunteers with no official capacity other than shovel-operators (not really "shovels" of course but small hand tools) which was highly educational. I learned some of the 'tricks of the trade' in hunting Indian artifacts from the postmaster of the town where my father was employed, who was, if not "expert" then a very advanced amateur whose collection filled his basement and nearly all dug from a single ancient Amerindian site a mile or so out of the town. I have done a fair amount of research into trade among pre-Columbian cultures as well, though in a different project. So while my level of knowledge of Indian artifacts is not expert by any means, I am not a total rank amateur in the subject either.

Sorry for the long explanation, but just wanted to explain my "background" in case of doubts. I cannot say that this interesting stone is definitely a fetish or charm of any sort, but that it is interesting enough to research a little further. Thank you for your patience, good luck and good hunting to you all!

Oroblanco

 

[tchimes]

Hey Guys

First off I did not post the rock to spark a debate, it was an interesting rock in an interesting place is all. Personally I likes it, for some reason I had to have it and It may only be a rock. I am good with this.

As I posted earlier I will be spending some time retracing the journey of Hernando De-Soto and searching for the Creek Villages he camped and spent time with. I will continue on to Wetumpka on my first leg of the journey. Pictured below is a map showing his journey along the Tallaposa river from Talladega, past Alexander City down to Tallise and beyond to Wetumpka and Tuscaloosa. I can only wish I could of retraced his route that now lies beneath Lake Martin, for it went right through some of the richest gold producing area in the state. Hmm I have seen that happen to other gold regions as well, wonder why? But that is another thought another thread.

I hope to return and continue on from Wetumpka to Humati as the second leg of my journey and on and on till I reach the sea. Starting this weekend I will be scouting out places along the route via road access if any so I may position additional supplies along my route, saves on packing in everything. It also gives me an objective to make and look forward to, well that is if the animals do not get it, which could be either the four legged or two legged kind.

Like I have said, if nothing more it will be an adventure. The possibilities are huge though.

KAS
tchimes

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again,
KAS sorry didn't mean to sound off there, Cannonman and I seem to have many common interests and enjoy debating each other. (Like two similar poles of a magnet! Always interesting though.) Your trip sounds like it will be a great adventure! Who knows what you will find! One thing for sure, you will find a great experience that lasts a lifetime and see some might pretty country!

I would add that charms were sometimes carried in small pouches worn around the neck so would not necessarily have holes drilled or grooves where strings were attached.

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[dprice]

I live in Wetumpka and the Creek Indins Still have Land here. They Have a Casino on the land. Tallasse(talisi) is 10 miles from here Fort Tolouse or (Fort Jackson ) is 2 miles away from there Land. They are both on the river. Yes Desoto did travel trough here. But unless that was found in running water it just looks like a rock. I have found alot of pottery and rock beads and glass beads.Also arrowheads, spear heads, and a knife.There were also Cherokee Indians Near Here.

 

[Oroblanco]

Okay, have it your way, it is a rock. No question this is made of stone. What would be the harm in having it checked by an expert?
Oroblanco

 

[dprice]

When in dout check it out 8)