What I have been told is a RARE TOPOGRAPHICAL ENGINEER BIT BOSS!

[Wes-N-VA]

Okay, it has been awhile since I have posted other than these recent post. This relic has me excited because it was found to be a RARE relic. This one will be making American Digger! Butch was very excited about this Bit Boss and he even forwarded my information to a Mr. Charles Harris who replied back to me explaining the limited information on this hard to find relic from the Civil War. To say the least, I am very happy to have this fine piece in my collection of Civil War relics. What makes it even better, I found 46 sharp carbine bullets and a Eagle I Button with it. What a great day metal detecting! Please visit my YouTube page (Wes-N-VA) to see this amazing Civil War Relic Hunt. Between three of us about 100 bullets were found!

https://www.facebook.com/MidAtlanticRelicAndCoinHunters?ref=hl

 

[Steve in PA]

Very cool bit boss!

 

[CRUSADER]

Looks in great condition. As a non-facebook member, can you give us the expert info you are touching on. I know it must be pretty rare because its the first one I remember being posted on here, might be the only one?

 

[Ahab8]

Wow what a great relic Wes! Let us know what else you find out about it. I hope people realize how nice that really is. Do you know just how rare these might be?

 

[Valley Ranger]

Nice save there Wes - congratulations! It sure cleaned up nice too.

 

[CarolinaCurt]

Fantastic find. Wish I could find one. Great save.

 

[Wes-N-VA]

I will cut and paste his email. I feel the same way, but it seems that the site has changed more to the coins? I thought people would have been a little more excited about this as I was and those who replied. Honestly, I think it is a banner worthy find but then again that is just my opinion. Thank you for your interest! Respectfully Wes

QUOTE=CRUSADER;4384356]Looks in great condition. As a non-facebook member, can you give us the expert info you are touching on. I know it must be pretty rare because its the first one I remember being posted on here, might be the only one?[/QUOTE]

 

[pepperj]

I will cut and paste his email. I feel the same way, but it seems that the site has changed more to the coins? I thought people would have been a little more excited about this as I was and those who replied. Honestly, I think it is a banner worthy find but then again that is just my opinion. Thank you for your interest! Respectfully Wes

QUOTE=CRUSADER;4384356]Looks in great condition. As a non-facebook member, can you give us the expert info you are touching on. I know it must be pretty rare because its the first one I remember being posted on here, might be the only one?

[/QUOTE]

That would be great to see a link or two regarding this find, as I haven't or seen one either so reading up on it would be good. Congrats on the find and it could be a serious contender for a vote.

 

[Steve in PA]

That bit boss is pictured in Howard Crouch's book "Civil War Artifacts - A Guide for the Historian" on page 130 and the description says "the shield device on this specimen may denote the US Topographical Engineers".

 

[StormSurge]

Nice Bit Boss Wes!, and the pockets full of lead ain't bad either. When's the last time you found that many?
As always you're pulling the "Best of the Best" of our great history out of hallowed ground.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Very nice finds!

 

[CarolinaCurt]

Hi Wes, I was just looking in some of my collectors books and found a similar device in " Howard R. Crouch's, Civil War Artifacts, A Guide for the Historian" on page 130. The bit boss is identical to yours and Crouch also states that it may also be Topographical Engineers. I'm sorry I don't have more information,but at least its a start. HHing Curt

 

[Wes-N-VA]

This is the reply I got in reference to the Bit Boss! Thank you!

Butch forwarded your photos of the bit boss down to me. I almost blew it by almost saying that I thought it to be after the Civil War, but ........... I searched my reference books and did find it in Howard Crouch's book, Horse Equipment of the Civil War Era. It is item 12 on page 112 of the book listed with the Horse Bit Bosses. He describes this particular shield as being of the U.S. Topographical Engineers. That in itself makes this boss scarce. The Topographical Engineers were the map makers.

They covered a lot of ground in their map creation. Quite often an area to be mapped was gridded off and each grid square was assigned to a different group of engineers, often tied in with the Cavalry or attached to them because of their mobility.. They would go out to that area and map in every feature in that square, roads, creeks, houses and barns, fields, orchards and woods. If it was required, actual contours would also be created on the map. When finished with their square, they returned to the headquarters and turned in their map section. Then all the sections were combined to make the final map of the assigned area. I found out this information a number of years ago when Jerry Wormsley, myself and a couple others were trying to figure out why Gen. Joe Wheeler's Cavalry were not down protecting the roads through Snake Creek Gap in north GA when the Yankee Army managed to get around the Confederate Army in Dalton/Resaca area. Gen. wheeler reported that he was out nw of Dalton doing mapping (which he wasn't).

Keep your powder dry,
Charlie Harris

 

[CRUSADER]

I will cut and paste his email. I feel the same way, but it seems that the site has changed more to the coins? I thought people would have been a little more excited about this as I was and those who replied. Honestly, I think it is a banner worthy find but then again that is just my opinion. Thank you for your interest! Respectfully Wes

QUOTE=CRUSADER;4384356]Looks in great condition. As a non-facebook member, can you give us the expert info you are touching on. I know it must be pretty rare because its the first one I remember being posted on here, might be the only one?

Answering the coins comment;
I don't think its that simple, but if you think about it, most detectorists will at least own a coins book, & we all find coins, so its easy to relate to.

 

[park pirate]

Nice finds..

 

[Msbeepbeep]

Congrats! That is really exciting! Must be a banner find for sure!

 

[jeff of pa]

Looks in great condition. As a non-facebook member, can you give us the expert info you are touching on. I know it must be pretty rare because its the first one I remember being posted on here, might be the only one?

I agree Sending members to Facebook When you could post the details Here makes Me

By the way is this a Today's find ? (Within the last Week ?)

or a Best find (Found awhile ago & just sharing it now )

Or ?

I do remember a Bit Boss awhile ago .

By the way We don't banner Finds on Facebook or in Magazines
to even be considered here it would need to be posted here
with the whole story Here, Minus advertising

 

[Tnmountains]

This is the reply I got in reference to the Bit Boss! Thank you!

Butch forwarded your photos of the bit boss down to me. I almost blew it by almost saying that I thought it to be after the Civil War, but ........... I searched my reference books and did find it in Howard Crouch's book, Horse Equipment of the Civil War Era. It is item 12 on page 112 of the book listed with the Horse Bit Bosses. He describes this particular shield as being of the U.S. Topographical Engineers. That in itself makes this boss scarce. The Topographical Engineers were the map makers.

They covered a lot of ground in their map creation. Quite often an area to be mapped was gridded off and each grid square was assigned to a different group of engineers, often tied in with the Cavalry or attached to them because of their mobility.. They would go out to that area and map in every feature in that square, roads, creeks, houses and barns, fields, orchards and woods. If it was required, actual contours would also be created on the map. When finished with their square, they returned to the headquarters and turned in their map section. Then all the sections were combined to make the final map of the assigned area. I found out this information a number of years ago when Jerry Wormsley, myself and a couple others were trying to figure out why Gen. Joe Wheeler's Cavalry were not down protecting the roads through Snake Creek Gap in north GA when the Yankee Army managed to get around the Confederate Army in Dalton/Resaca area. Gen. wheeler reported that he was out nw of Dalton doing mapping (which he wasn't).

Keep your powder dry,
Charlie Harris

Cause they had all dug in fortifications over crow valley with stacked rock and natural terrain that were impenetrable after 3 days of attempts they abandoned the attack and the Union went around them and over snake creek. The topo guys did cover a lot of ground and the civil war atlas is full of their work. Unfortunately all confederate records were destroyed. Charlie Harris knows his stuff. He is the man! I would think their bit boss would be a rare find as well.

 

[Wes-N-VA]

Yes it was found within a week.


QUOTE=jeff of pa;4384860]I agree Sending members to Facebook When you could post the details Here makes Me

By the way is this a Today's find ? (Within the last Week ?)

or a Best find (Found awhile ago & just sharing it now )

Or ?

I do remember a Bit Boss awhile ago .

By the way We don't banner Finds on Facebook or in Magazines
to even be considered here it would need to be posted here
with the whole story Here, Minus advertising [/QUOTE]

 

[StormSurge]

Wes, I would think that these bit boss's would be a little more common. From Charlie Harris' comment about these engineers covering a lot of ground and so many of them it just seems strange that we don't see Topographic Engineer accoutrement pretty often or ever. I know that Charlie knows his stuff. Did he elaborate on how much Topo. Engineer stuff that he has seen over the years? I'm curious. I'll definitely have my eye open for it in the future.
Best of luck to Ya!