what the heck is a private road really?

[Goldwasher]

sooooo. if theres blm land with a road that acesses several properties and blm land, and theres no gate just a sign that says no trespassing private road no gate i can use that road to get to this blm land right..im not trespassing because im legally acessing my federal land right who do i talk to if im confronted by an irate homeowner if intercepted once headin down this road??

 

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[jog]

I would check with the BLM office and find out if there is an easement through the property.

 

[lurediver]

sooooo. if theres blm land with a road that acesses several properties and blm land, and theres no gate just a sign that says no trespassing private road no gate i can use that road to get to this blm land right..im not trespassing because im legally acessing my federal land right who do i talk to if im confronted by an irate homeowner if intercepted once headin down this road??

Pville, If the road is a private road and on private property, then no you can't access the BLM land. That road might be shared through an easement with its neighbors but not the public. There's alot of BLM land here in cali that is land locked by private property and the public can't legally access it unless they use a helicopter or fly in. I've run into the same problem trying to find new spots for hunting. I've checked with BLM before. Sucks but there's nothing one can do.

 

[Goldwasher]

doesnt some of it have to do with the age of the road?

 

[greydigger]

I think you are talking about a "Constructive Easement".
If there is a road, path, whatever through a persons property that has been used regularly for some time, (maybe 7 yrs) and the owner has done nothing to stop the traffic, the easement exists and cannot be taken away.
The posting of signs is proof that the owner is doing something to stop traffic.
If the signs have been put up 20 yrs. late, you might have a case.

 

[bigwater]

I've seen how this happens in person. My grandfather owned 200 acres of land in an area that the BLM was trying to designate a national forest. BLM approached him to sell, and offered to trade him outright for 200 acres of land that was at the edge of the designated forest area. He had a cozy cabin that had been built by his father, and had no interest in moving, but he agreed to exchange 196 acres to the BLM for land on publically accessible roads. He kept 4 acres out in the middle of the forest. The easment to the property, which was about 10 miles deep into the forest, was granted for his use only. It was truly a private road. It was owned by BLM, but the only person who had authority to use it was my grandfather. Not even BLM had authority to use it. It was strictly an easement to private property.

Once he died 30 years ago, my family sold the land to the government, and now the road has been allowed to grow up and isn't even recognizable any more. The old homestead was just a few rotted boards on the ground the last time I hiked in there 20 years ago, and to be honest, the way the landscape has changed over the last 30 years I don't know if I could find it now if I tried. The road just doesn't exist any more.

 

[Hoser John]

Ifn' ya don't own the claim--then you have no rights accorded to ya. Egress and regress codified under the 1872 mining laws,further codified under the Nixon administration,is only in relation to a claim holder only. Always ALWAYS respect private property no tresspassing signs or you will be ventilated out in them hills!!!John

 

[Goldwasher]

the reason im asking certain specific questions is the fact that it is a very old road it doesnt cross one property to get to another it darts through corners of properties here and there incuding blm and county land and ends smack dab in the middle of blm land. of the three or four private lots/land only one has a come and those lots dont look to be contigous...the road seems to be the property line in places so do i look at my older topos and go to the county?

 

[Hoser John]

County tax assessors and Recorders offices has the info for ya as there might be a deeded access through the private lands and the folks in Pville most happy to assist and have ez access to records too-tons a au 2 u2 -John

 

[Caminochaos]

the reason im asking certain specific questions is the fact that it is a very old road it doesnt cross one property to get to another it darts through corners of properties here and there incuding blm and county land and ends smack dab in the middle of blm land. of the three or four private lots/land only one has a come and those lots dont look to be contigous...the road seems to be the property line in places so do i look at my older topos and go to the county?

The map I showed you has the road running smack dab in the middle of the first private parcel. Then you hit BLM land. After that it hugs the property line of two private parcels followed by yet another chunk of BLM land that we wanted to access. So be careful. I have yet to find access to that land we were speaking of but I'll let you know if I find anything.

 

[Goldwasher]

your right joel i was lookin at my plat map last night... the edge of the blm and that first lot are very close...however it does seem to cross that first parcel first that whole area is crazy confusing with abandoned and current claims that seem to overlap private land...wich i know is just miss recorded as far as the claims go since you cant claim private land... there are parcels that used to be federal and were transfered into private hands. that bridge that crosses the creek is way more than twenty years old and i want to find out the dates on the title there...if the road is as old as i think it is thats our in....otherwise we may have to hike that other abandoned road through the blm land and up over that saddle......just tryin to sort this out for us..ive been wantin to get back there for two years now. by the way i plotted a course down to another spot i was tellin you about...three quarters of a mile and a good secure parking area could be some good snipin and sluicin im not bringin my sluice in the first time i go cause i might have to break trail..hit me up later.

 

[Caminochaos]

Sounds good. I have just talked to a couple of surveyors that I work for here at the county and they said you are allowed to use the road to access public land as long as you dont leave the road and walk around on the private land. Both of the guys I talk to are very familiar with the area and said that the "no tresspassing" sign can only represent the land the road runs through and not the road itself. I feel confident in the answers I got because these guys have been dealing with parcels/right of way issues for 60+ years combined.

Besides the worst that can happen is the owner gets mad and shoots us .

 

[patches63]

am not contradicting nor endorsing anything posted above.but the california penal code clearly states that denying access to public lands by way of common access roads is a misdeanor crime.someones driveway is of course a different matter.bottom line,title search at county courthouse.exhibit A of the land titles must and will specify ingress/egress involved with each property.blm/forest service lands no exception.the assesors office first,for parcel #.then recorders office with parcel# for recorded deeds.exhibit A of each property deed will specify the easements in every case.unless the deeds involved have flaws.which does happen.property owners are often unaware of easements that burden their property. prospecting/mining are dependant upon courthouse/blm main office dexterity.rapport with courthouse clerks a crucial skill.have found,at aleast at my courthouse,that a pocketfull of gourmet chocolate bars one of my best mining tools.the title search method described above is also the way to research a potential claimsite.parcel#(assessor) then recorder (parcel deed) any mineral claim will be listed for that property.exhibit A of any ca. deed will show easements involved.if easement accross a private property involved,search both titles.and try to win the private landowners friendship,when practiceable.milk bones for the dogs can help also.luck.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

No state can make a (legal) law that trumps private property rights. If you have a true "private road", no state can force you to allow access on that private road to any other parcel, private or public. What IS illegal, is to shut off a roadway that is NOT truly private and deny access to BLM land.

Some states, like Arizona, make a legal public access across every section line. Its either 10, 20 or 30 feet wide, between section lines, depending on the county. Some places in California have that also - but it is NOT statewide - it is only some counties.

Check with the local assessors office or courthouse. Don't trust an assayer - or anyone else - look at it, for yourself, on the paperwork. We have been to court for this very thing. We did not win. (I tend to have to learn everything the hard way). The "roadway" had been used for 60 years, but it was NOT public, and was only a legal access to the first property in a line of 3 properties. We were stuck getting our own road put in, from the main road, across our own private land to the house. In other words, it was really classified as a driveway, not a road. (yes, it sucked).

Beth

 

[Goldwasher]

like mentioned above this road went to blm land and went through blm land that was transferred to private land in recent years.....many many years before this road was ever called a Private road. on top of that it is access to undeveloped land that some one is gonna wanna sale in the futere so its in no way a driveway....were not gonna tell anyone where were lookin at really but, we will keep you informed on how it all goes so we can help others in our situation.

 

[TerryC]

I live with my girlfiend. on 80 acres, near Murphys. Two roads traverse the property. One through strictly private property. One goes through BLM and her property. Both are strictly for Fire prevention and utility vehicles. BLM and PG&E maintain the roads and therefore have control over their use. Only owners of the land are allowed, by contract, to use the roads. Most others use the roads and nothing is said or done till the landowner(s) complain in writing. User beware!

 

[Shake n Flake]

A private road is one where I can feel the crosshairs on my forehead!

 

[Seamuss]

I Private road is a road that is not maintained or built with public funding. There is such a road behind my house funded by the people that live on the road and the power company and forest product company that have access to the area. All the neighbors and companies with property to access chip in for maintenance instead of the tax payers. That's one discription of a private road.

 

[bigwater]

Yes Seamuss, but there is a huge difference between a private road on private property, and a private road on BLM property. Surprisingly you have more rights with protection from trespassing on a right of way deeded to you on public land than you do on private propery that you own outright. Go figure.

 

[YEEP]

A private is in the ARMY A private road is a road YOU or I CAN'T use.