Why would eBay rule for the buyer?

[Nickleanddime]

Sent a package march 31 to Colorado along with 2 others heading into California. They all went through the same processing center in Akron but the one to Colorado never left. The nes to California took 2 days first class mail! But the one to Colorado shipped first class is stuck.

Now got a email from that buyer last night and they opened a case for undelivered package. Told them basically not my problem item is is postal hands I can't make them move the package and they needed to contact hat office. Even provided the number to there any everything but they still opened a claim. So called eBay and they told me they will rule in their favor if its not there by the 18th.

So my question is how am I being rules against? The item has tracking showing it is there and I mailed it. I held up my end of what is required of me.

Now here's the kicker, I've had 2 packages that were sent to me where I opened a case for non delivery and eBay sided with the buyer since all tracking info was entered. And then eBay proceded to tell me the buyer has nothing to do with the item once it enters the system. So what the heck?

Yeah my grammar and story building sucks but its been a long day. Anyone else getting screwed by the postal service lately.

 

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[2ndisbest]

I had a package get caught up in the system last month and the guy contacted me through ebay. I told him what happened and it would probably be another week before it gets delivered from past experiences. He was cool about it and 5 days later he got his package. I check my defects on ebay and sure enough, defect for package not delivered....

I could call and get the defect removed but do I want to spend 20 minutes on the phone doing it? Not really.

Ebay doesn't care about its sellers.....

 

[trdhrdr007]

Although I think it's BS eBay policy is clear. The seller is responsible for the performance of the shipping company. If they lose or damage your package & the buyer complains it's a defect.

 

[jerseyben]

You guys complain non stop about how unfair ebay is to sellers.

As a primary buyer, I can tell you I am grateful that ebay has many of these policies in place. I have been burned many many times by sellers who are amateurs and make stupid mistakes.

Ebay has stepped in (or due to their polices) and saved me from getting ripped off many times.

Look, the truth hurts, but many "sellers" on ebay don't have a clue. They dont know what they are doing. They have no business sense. They dont take the time to read, let alone understand, ebay's rules and policies.

Then, when something goes wrong, they get upset because the big bad ebay "doesnt care about sellers".

Im sorry... but this attitude is wrong and only hurting sellers and holding them back from being successful business owners. Sellers need to stop blaming ebay for their problems or failures as business owners. Either step up, or step out.

 

[NHBandit]

As far as Ebay policy the seller is responsible for the item until its in the hands of the buyer. Your buyer isn't responsible for calling the post office or anyone else to chase down the package, you are. Once it shows on the post office tracking page as "delivered" you're off the hook as long as the item didn't arrive damaged. If it did you're still the one who has to make it right... It is what it is.

 

[G.I.B.]

Just curious-

What is to prevent me from selling something on eBay, say a $90 pinpointer, and not actually sending it.

I mail an empty box to the customer, give him the tracking number, show where I had confirmation of delivery and the buyer is complaining that he received an empty box.

So then, you just blame the post office by saying it was in the box when you shipped it? Must be a crook in the post office taking things out of boxes?

 

[jerseyben]

Just curious-

What is to prevent me from selling something on eBay, say a $90 pinpointer, and not actually sending it.

I mail an empty box to the customer, give him the tracking number, show where I had confirmation of delivery and the buyer is complaining that he received an empty box.

So then, you just blame the post office by saying it was in the box when you shipped it? Must be a crook in the post office taking things out of boxes?

Ebay buyer protection will protect the buyer from situations like this. Buyer would file a "not as described" claim.

 

[xr7ator]

Then, ebay/paypal would refund 100% of the money, including shipping costs, to the buyer.

 

[trdhrdr007]

I'm not one to complain about eBay policies but I don't have any problem saying their defect system is fundamentally flawed. I've got 3 defects over the last year. Two of those were for problems out of my control......the buyer was 100% satisfied with my response to the issue......& I got positive feedback from the buyer. How could that possibly be a defect?

I won't disagree with the fact that there are people selling on eBay that are idiotic and/or fraudulent. I figure it's about the same percentage as the number of idiot and/or fraudulent buyers.

 

[trdhrdr007]

You guys complain non stop about how unfair ebay is to sellers.

As a primary buyer, I can tell you I am grateful that ebay has many of these policies in place. I have been burned many many times by sellers who are amateurs and make stupid mistakes.

Ebay has stepped in (or due to their polices) and saved me from getting ripped off many times.

Look, the truth hurts, but many "sellers" on ebay don't have a clue. They dont know what they are doing. They have no business sense. They dont take the time to read, let alone understand, ebay's rules and policies.

Then, when something goes wrong, they get upset because the big bad ebay "doesnt care about sellers".

Im sorry... but this attitude is wrong and only hurting sellers and holding them back from being successful business owners. Sellers need to stop blaming ebay for their problems or failures as business owners. Either step up, or step out.

I've been on eBay since the late 90's. I had one problem with a seller since then. Sounds like your buying experiences have been dramatically different from mine. Care to share some specific instances of how you were burned?

 

[Digger]

I've been on eBay since 2001 myself and all was well until it happened. It only takes one case to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

I had bought a necklace from a guy with some 21000+ transactions at 100% feedback. Two weeks later I decided to sell it because I didn't care for it much. It was supposed to be 14k gold. In my add I put I only sell to the lower 48 ONLY. Some guy bought it for $500 and I shipped it to some address in California. Two weeks later I get an email from eBay saying the buyer was claiming the necklace "could be fake" and filed a claim and Paypal put a hold for $500 on my bank account pending the outcome. Problem was the buyer was actually in China and the necklace was being shipped from California to China so the buyer could decided IF it was real or not. I was stunned. First, eBay's policy says double shipping voids the ability to file a claim. There is this company out of California that allows people from another country to buy items marked only for sale in the states, ship it to them, and they ship it out of the country.

The problem is eBay's policy says you only have 30 days to file a claim. Well, two weeks have already gone by and now my necklace is being shipped to China to some guy who will then decided if it is real. I called eBay to inform them first of the double shipping, which they didn't care about, then to tell them IF this guys claims my necklace was fake I will want to file a claim against the guy I bought it from and it would be past the 30 days by the time I would find out so I wanted to let them know. Of course the guys claims it is fake and sends it back. As soon as he claims it is fake I call eBay to file my claim and they tell me it is past my 30 days so I'm S*it out of luck. I told them I called them for this very reason to let them know it would be past my 30 days before I could file and they just said oh well.

I don't sell on eBay no more they can kiss where the sun doesn't shine. I was a loyal buyer/seller and still have 100% feedback. You're just lucky so far to have been on the good side of dealing with them. I was to for almost 16 years

 

[Butter Hat]

Ebay buyer protection will protect the buyer from situations like this. Buyer would file a "not as described" claim.

And I'm grateful for it. Very seldom have I had to file against a seller, but once, I was buying several new items as a single package, described in detail.

I got different items. And one item was clearly, very, very 'used.' Ebay ruled in my favor and I got a refund.

There are cheats on both sides, but also mishaps. This may have been a cheat, but it may also have been a mishap. I didn't care. I just wanted the refund.

 

[jerseyben]

I've been on eBay since the late 90's. I had one problem with a seller since then. Sounds like your buying experiences have been dramatically different from mine. Care to share some specific instances of how you were burned?

Sometime early 2013: Paid about $20 for a gold chain. Seller sent me a message claiming the chain "broke" and was refunding my money. I told him to send it anyway and that I would not leave negative feedback for the chain being broken but he refused.

June 2013: Paid $120 for an old used Iphone. Waited a few weeks but it never arrived. Seller could have cared less. I called my local post office. They investigated it and told me that a package had been in their office for over 2 weeks but was undeliverable because it only had my city, state, and name but NO STREET OR HOUSE NUMBER. So, they sent it back to the seller. Ebay refunded my money on that one but I did not have a cell phone for almost a month because I had already disconnected my old carrier.

Nov 2013: Paid nearly $300 for an LP that was described as being in ex+ condition with almost no defects (hence why I paid so much for it). When I received it, using standard grading practices, the record and sleeve were significantly below the seller's stated condition.

Feb 2014: Paid $125 for a colonial coin. It was described as being "all original". When I received the coin, it had clearly been cleaned (without a doubt), which did not show in the pics. This condition issue should have been disclosed.

Mar 2014: Paid $10 for a coin. There was no description other than what it is and a picture. When I received the coin, it had obviously been struck with a heavy blow causing the coin to dish or bow out. Obvious damage that should have been disclosed.

early Feb 2015: Paid $10 for a coin. It never arrived. I filed a "not received" claim. Seller claims the item was sent back to him for lack of postage. He resent the coin and it finally arrived Mar 2015.

Mar 2015: Paid $60 for a rare record. Auction showed a pic of the label on the 45 only but did not show the sleeve or vinyl itself. I assumed crappy pics, as is normal for many sellers. It was described as being in ex condition for both the vinyl and sleeve. Record arrived in a blank white generic sleeve MINUS the actual picture sleeve. Seller did not seem to care and claimed it never came with a picture sleeve. Seller offered no solution besides ebay's buyer protection to simply return it for a refund.

Is that enough or do you want more?

 

[trdhrdr007]

Those definitely suck & I can see where you would be happy eBay has buyer protection policies. Anytime the item doesn't arrive it's obviously on the seller. I can also see you are willing to take more chances than I am. Absolutely no way in heck I'd buy a pre-owned item that didn't have clear pictures of everything included. IMO doing otherwise is gambling.....& I really don't have any sympathy for people that gamble & lose.

 

[Nickleanddime]

Well they left negative feedback 1 day after they opened the case. No time to hear back from the post office or even respond to her about what's going on. Oh we'll I have enough positive to blind this one negative item. Issues a refund today just to get it over with. I've been selling for 3 years now and this is the first time to ever get dinged. I went back through the buyers feedback also and looks like others have complaints also about the way she is so as some one said, it is what it is. Can't let it keep me down I have 2 estate and 3 garage sales in my town this weekend, hunting season has started for me!!

Thanks everyone for their response about this matter.

 

[Doubter in MD]

It may not help but if you specify shipping terms in your listing as F.O.B. Origin(Free On Board) It means it belongs to the customer once it enters the delivery system. That means the customer is responsible for filing lost and damaged shipping claims.

Since you're dealing (C)ustomerBay it probably won't matter but it can't hurt.

 

[jerseyben]

It may not help but if you specify shipping terms in your listing as F.O.B. Origin(Free On Board) It means it belongs to the customer once it enters the delivery system. That means the customer is responsible for filing lost and damaged shipping claims.

Since you're dealing (C)ustomerBay it probably won't matter but it can't hurt.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Sometime early 2013: Paid about $20 for a gold chain. Seller sent me a message claiming the chain "broke" and was refunding my money. I told him to send it anyway and that I would not leave negative feedback for the chain being broken but he refused.

This has nothing to do with shipping F.O.B. Origin.

June 2013: Paid $120 for an old used Iphone. Waited a few weeks but it never arrived. Seller could have cared less. I called my local post office. They investigated it and told me that a package had been in their office for over 2 weeks but was undeliverable because it only had my city, state, and name but NO STREET OR HOUSE NUMBER. So, they sent it back to the seller. Ebay refunded my money on that one but I did not have a cell phone for almost a month because I had already disconnected my old carrier.

This has nothing to do with shipping F.O.B. Origin.If there isn't enough information and the parcel has to be returned to the sender then the sender is still responsible.

Nov 2013: Paid nearly $300 for an LP that was described as being in ex+ condition with almost no defects (hence why I paid so much for it). When I received it, using standard grading practices, the record and sleeve were significantly below the seller's stated condition.

This is a condition issue that could not have been caused by the carrier. Again, nothing to do with F.O.B. Origin.

Feb 2014: Paid $125 for a colonial coin. It was described as being "all original". When I received the coin, it had clearly been cleaned (without a doubt), which did not show in the pics. This condition issue should have been disclosed.

Again, it could not have been caused by the carrier. Nothing to do with F.O.B Origin. It falls back to the seller if the goods were misrepresented.

Mar 2014: Paid $10 for a coin. There was no description other than what it is and a picture. When I received the coin, it had obviously been struck with a heavy blow causing the coin to dish or bow out. Obvious damage that should have been disclosed.

See above.

early Feb 2015: Paid $10 for a coin. It never arrived. I filed a "not received" claim. Seller claims the item was sent back to him for lack of postage. He resent the coin and it finally arrived Mar 2015.

. Again, on the seller.

Mar 2015: Paid $60 for a rare record. Auction showed a pic of the label on the 45 only but did not show the sleeve or vinyl itself. I assumed crappy pics, as is normal for many sellers. It was described as being in ex condition for both the vinyl and sleeve. Record arrived in a blank white generic sleeve MINUS the actual picture sleeve. Seller did not seem to care and claimed it never came with a picture sleeve. Seller offered no solution besides ebay's buyer protection to simply return it for a refund.

Is that enough or do you want more?

If you have more I'd stop buying from EBay.

My point is F.O.B. Origin puts the onus on the buyer to recover losses that are caused by shipping damage or lost shipments. It doesn't allow the buyer to commit fraud. If your iPhone had been run over by a forklift at a UPS terminal it would be up to you to file the claim and recover your loss. This is common business practice. In most cases the merchandise belongs to and is the responsibility of the buyer once the item has shipped.

Furthermore, if your iPhone WAS run over by a forklift in a UPS terminal, they wouldn't even talk to the seller.

 

[diggummup]

Well they left negative feedback 1 day after they opened the case. No time to hear back from the post office or even respond to her about what's going on. Oh we'll I have enough positive to blind this one negative item. Issues a refund today just to get it over with.

Why would you voluntarily refund some fool that has already left you negative feedback for an item that hasn't been delivered yet? You do know that you can call the post office and put a trace on that package don't you? You can also have the neg. removed when the package gets delivered. Yes, it's a time consuming pain in the ass to talk to Bob in Bombay at the call center, but it can be done.

You guys complain non stop about how unfair ebay is to sellers.

As a primary buyer, I can tell you I am grateful that ebay has many of these policies in place. I have been burned many many times by sellers who are amateurs and make stupid mistakes.

Ebay has stepped in (or due to their polices) and saved me from getting ripped off many times.

Look, the truth hurts, but many "sellers" on ebay don't have a clue. They dont know what they are doing. They have no business sense. They dont take the time to read, let alone understand, ebay's rules and policies.

Then, when something goes wrong, they get upset because the big bad ebay "doesnt care about sellers".

Im sorry... but this attitude is wrong and only hurting sellers and holding them back from being successful business owners. Sellers need to stop blaming ebay for their problems or failures as business owners. Either step up, or step out.

First of all (speaking for myself especially) many of us are not business owners that sell for a living full time. We are hobbyists who do this for fun and a little profit. As far as the defect rating system goes, yes it is definitely flawed since they changed it last year. I was a top rated seller since it'a inception, until last year. I lost it because of these reasons...
1- An "item not received" that wasn't delivered on time (even though I mailed it the same day) and it eventually showed as delivered, a month later.
2- Then I canceled and refunded another transaction because I misplaced the ($5.99 w/free ship) item. I didn't realize that it would count as a defect under the "new" rules or I wouldn't have cancelled it so quickly.
3- Then I had a "Low detailed seller ratings for item as described" marked against me for an item where the buyer left a very nice feedback telling me how much they liked it. They probably hit the wrong buttons.
4- Then another asswipe left low detailed seller ratings for a Tiffany clock that he returned because it was "smaller then he expected" meanwhile the dimensions were clearly written in black and white in the description.

So, as a small powerseller, and former top rated seller, I have a right to complain about the changes they implement on us sellers every year.
Now, of I was some half assed mega seller from Thailand (or the US) that sells thousands of items a year none of this would matter because the sheer volume alone would cover these little mishaps. You tell me why "we" shouldn't complain.

 

[trdhrdr007]

It may not help but if you specify shipping terms in your listing as F.O.B. Origin(Free On Board) It means it belongs to the customer once it enters the delivery system. That means the customer is responsible for filing lost and damaged shipping claims.

Since you're dealing (C)ustomerBay it probably won't matter but it can't hurt.

I gotta agree with jerseyben on this one. Totally against eBay policy & therefore irrelevant. In addition, FOB may be used a lot in business transactions but it's not something you see much of in retail.