Winklevoss Twins on Bitcoin

[Dave Rishar]

One million shares of Bitcoin being dumped would by no means crash Bitcoin, lower the price...yes, but only temporarily.

Well until the next whale comes along and runs a pump and dump on it. To be fair, most of the dirty action is on alts, and if you know what a p&d looks like, it’s fairly easy to set your limits to take advantage of the next one.

The price crashes do give interesting views into just how irrational this market is though. South Korea announced that they were considering regulating or banning (lol) crypto recently and it crashed the market. (And if you were a rational investor, you bought in hard when that happened.). Then they said that that they wouldn’t and the market largely recovered. (And rational investors profited.). But what major exchanges outside of South Korea even track Korean trading anymore? It had no logical influence, but it had influence just the same. I suppose that a knowledge of psychology is more important than a knowledge of economics when investing in crypto...or anything else, really. It all comes back to perceived value.

Here's something that some of you may not know, if you want to invest in Bitcoin (or any alternative coin), you don't have to buy a full coin to play. Using Bitcoin as an example, one can purchase as little as one hundred millionth of a bitcoin.

Indeed. One could also pay for goods like that too, and it’s a relatively simple manner to tie your pricing to the market value of your chosen crypto in real time, thus kinda-sorta pegging your crypto prices to fiat. But it’s a needless hassle, which is why I predict that no crypto will be a mainstream currency until the market settles down.

However, I’m a rational person and this is an irrational market. The entire concept of conducting commerce with assets lacking intrinsic value seems insane to me, but I’ve been doing it my entire life. The pieces didn’t click until I learned what a dollar was and why we left the gold standard, and then I realized that what came before fiat was even more insane.

Getting paid in ones and zeroes is one of the saner things that we do these days. As such, I don’t scrutinize the font of those ones and zeroes too closely anymore. It’s all Monopoly money now.

 

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[1320]

Dave, I was a hater for so long...lol. I really wanted to lash out at the pumpers early on but the more I boned up on it, the tighter I bit my lip. I know now that when haters use terms like Ponzi, Pyramid, Tulip, etc., they're more than likely just rehashing comments from yahoo news articles...lol

 

[Madmox]

Really the one thing I am Having trouble reconciling is in AltCoins. The currency is created by a group that is working on a specific project. Let’s say VeChain for example.... and they issue a crypto currency VEN. When I am appraising this cryptocurrency. I look at the developers and the project to make a decision as to whether or not it is viable and a good project. In the case of VeChain the premise is the use of blockchain to authenticate the provenance of luxury items. Designer Goods, wine, etc... BUT my lack of understanding lies in how is the currency ACTUALLY tied to the success or failure of the project since they aren’t actually intrinsically tied together. So, to keep with my current example VeChain, let’s say it is adopted by the world wine industry as the vehicle to curb fraud in rare and expensive wines. Can anyone explain to me why that success would cause the price of VEN to rise by anything other than marketing and name recognition of the currency associated with but not actually tied to the project? Unless they are tied to it and I am just missing it, like etherium tokens are tied to and redeemable for some portion of facet of the project.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Hmmmmm. I think I will market a long-range locator guaranteed to find Bitcoins.

Send $5 in Forever Stamps to find out how Digital Cameras CAN see Bitcoins.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Also, you’re still using some terms incorrectly. I would have thought that you at least would have fact-checked me when I implied that you didn’t know what you were talking about earlier, but that’s the internet.

Dave, enough of the condescending comments. I know exactly what they are. Maybe YOU should read this article from The Washington Post. His explanation is exactly how I view Bitcoin. It's just a Ponzi scheme that needs a constant supply of new investors (suckers) to keep the ball rolling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/?utm_term=.c1cfeedf464a

 

[Madmox]

Dave, enough of the condescending comments. I know exactly what they are. Maybe YOU should read this article from The Washington Post. His explanation is exactly how I view Bitcoin. It's just a Ponzi scheme that needs a constant supply of new investors (suckers) to keep the ball rolling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/?utm_term=.c1cfeedf464a

The rocking of the current Apple cart scares a lot of people. As does evolution or any change for that matter. This upsets the staus quo. Whew power back to the peasants.... [emoji15][emoji15][emoji15]

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I really hope you guys get rich and come back here and brag about it. Not trying to discourage you, just don't want to see anyone lose their shirt over it. If you have money to play with, then there's no risk involved. Better than gambling or playing the lottery!

 

[KRIKITTS]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/562256-future-russia-china-set-gold-price.html#post5628495

Way out in front of it... Behind The Woodshed Blogcaster ? Aug 13, 2017. | Real Liberty Media https://thedailycoin.org/2017/08/06/...ed-by-the-nsa/

 

[chub]

I read somewhere that every ounce of gold on the market is owned by 8 different people..... could be a myth.

I get bitcoin - the concept. I'm just still concerned by the abstract/ anonymous/unknown nature of its inventor.

And then there;s the 'greater fool' concept.

Im no expert but I believe there are so many people (late comers) just hanging out to get their initial investment back... so bear market after bear market Is my instinct.

If bitcoin is now 'old fashioned' then how on earth can ANY crypto gain traction? Are we talking about an international currency or a fidget spinner? When will the new cryptos be capped ? How many cryptos can pop up in the near future? 1000? 10,000?

I also understand there are moves in Asia and other places to ban crytos? Does this mean that this type of legislation will make cryptos more volatile?



Interesting times!

Chub

 

[1320]

I read somewhere that every ounce of gold on the market is owned by 8 different people..... could be a myth.

I get bitcoin - the concept. I'm just still concerned by the abstract/ anonymous/unknown nature of its inventor.

And then there;s the 'greater fool' concept.

Im no expert but I believe there are so many people (late comers) just hanging out to get their initial investment back... so bear market after bear market Is my instinct.

If bitcoin is now 'old fashioned' then how on earth can ANY crypto gain traction? Are we talking about an international currency or a fidget spinner? When will the new cryptos be capped ? How many cryptos can pop up in the near future? 1000? 10,000?

I also understand there are moves in Asia and other places to ban crytos? Does this mean that this type of legislation will make cryptos more volatile?



Interesting times!

Chub

I wouldn't be concerned too much about the abstract/anonymous/unknown nature of it all, the idea (this will answer your pop up question) is so good that it has been "copied" by at least 1,300 other cryptos....alternative (alt) coins, with many more waiting to be introduced.

 

[KRIKITTS]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/562256-future-russia-china-set-gold-price.html#post5628495

Way out in front of it... Behind The Woodshed Blogcaster ? Aug 13, 2017. | Real Liberty Media https://thedailycoin.org/2017/08/06/...ed-by-the-nsa/

Cryptocurrencies – The Next Level of Power and Control Developed by The NSA

by The Daily Coin · Published August 6, 2017 · Updated August 7, 2017

Cryptocurrencies – The Next Level of Power and Control Developed by The NSA by Rory – The Daily Coin

In November 2013 we learned that bitcoin was built on technology the NSA had developed. The original source was deleted from an interview conducted that month and, unfortunately, is now lost to history – it doesn’t change the facts. Now we learn that information was 100% spot on correct. The NSA developed blockchain technology and released the information in a white paper that has been uncovered by Ken Schortgen, Jr., The Daily Economist. This confirms what has been reported by very few people, including us here at The Daily Coin.

Over the past several months I have stated, and plenty of people have attacked me for even thinking, much less stating, that cryptocurrencies will either be outlawed or overtaken by central banks. ALL – repeat – ALL of the banksters, government and military power and control comes from the Federal Reserve Note and people have this misguided belief that since someone developed a new math equation the banksters are going to roll over and simply hand over ALL their power and control.

Not only have I been discussing these issues, the research I put into a three part series detailing all the criminal banksters, government and other scum circling cryptocurrencies, should’ve been enough to garner at least a question or two. Why has no one been questioning all these banksters, governments and others becoming so involved with blockchain and bitcoin in particular? Even Blythe – the queen of financial weapons of mass destruction – Masters left JPMorgan to develop a cryptocurrency, but still no alarm bells.

Japan and Australia have both legalized bitcoin as currency. Japan would chop off half the island if the U.S. told them to and Australia is nothing more than a larger land mass of Japan – both lapdogs to the deep state pulling the strings within the U.S. government. Can you say grooming, training and assimilation? I feel confident some of you can.

Now, Ken Schortgen, Jr, has brought the goods to the table and anyone willing learn what has been known for several years can now learn for themselves. “The Phoenix” is definitely rising, probably in 2018 just as the Rothschild owned The Economist magazine stated in 1988. I just don’t think it is something any of us should be celebrating.

Is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies the result of a government experiment imagined 12 years before Satoshi white paper? by Ken Schortgen, Jr. – The Daily Economist

Is it coincidence or irony that the now famous Satoshi white paper that started the cryptocurrency industry was published during the very month of the financial crisis that many analysts believed was sufficient enough to take down the entire economic system? Because certain documents uncovered from the NSA going back to 1996 may point to a correlation between the government and Bitcoin, and how the current cryptocurrency frenzy might possibly be an experiment for the future of government controlled money.

Of course many Bitcoin evangelists will simply ignore this possibility, especially since they are integrally staked towards the success of this and other cryptocurrencies. But all one has to do is look at Al Gore and his monetary ties to the pushing of man-made global warming and the desire to see money become nothing more than carbon credits to realize that to find the truth of any given matter, one must always follow the money.

So with this in mind, what possible evidence is there that Bitcoin and the concept of cryptocurrencies may be either driven by the government as a mechanism to eliminate cash, or as a platform to provide a new system altogether that replaces sovereign fiat currencies?

In 1996 the NSA (that’s right, a government agency) published a White Paper titled, HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONICCASH. And in this white paper, analysts and researchers laid out the entire breadth and scope of replacing cash and other fiat currencies with a completely digital one, based on anonymous cryptocurrencies.

And they did this 12 years before the anonymous ‘Satoshi Nakamoto’ published his/her White Paper on the very eve of the financial collapse.

What is also interesting when you do a Word Cloud of the information compiled in the 1996 NSA document, is that the words Bit and Coin(s) occur in the most frequent 300 words of the search.

Cryptocurrencies in general should be considered as public enemy number one to central banks and sovereign governments, but so far there has been only a modicum of resistance to their creation and implementation. And in instances like Japan, they are readily becoming accepted into their economies and monetary systems. Yet make no mistake, if something threatens the sovereignty of a nation’s money, history shows that governments have been quick to destroy it before it has the potential to compete or threaten their own controlled legal tender.

Liberty Dollar:

Only time will tell if the Satoshi White Paper and the advent of Bitcoin in October of 2008 was simply a coincidence and perfect timing when the world was on the brink of monetary collapse, or if this anonymous publication and creation was meant to be engineered all along by the very entities that cryptocurrencies seek to overthrow. Because this would also mean that the resignation by J.P. Morgan’s Blythe Masters in 2014 to create a new startup for blockchain technology was also a coincidence, as is the cryptocurrency engineered by the Federal Reserve to one day soon function in the capacity of global bank settlement.

Of course I will be attacked for publishing this piece and I’m okay with that. What concerns me is the number of people that have recently jumped on the cryptocurrency bandwagon and have been singing the praises of this digital nightmare. If you think the banksters, government and military have control now, just wait until your entire family history – I mean entire family history – is uploaded and tied to your financial and economic account on the blockchain. We should all be extremely concerned and questioning the entire lay of the land in this “brave new world” instead of jumping for joy because bitcoin “hit a new all time high”.

 

[Dave Rishar]

It wouldn’t be an internet discussion without a conspiracy.

 

[Dave Rishar]

I scrolled right past this the first time. My apologies.

Dave, enough of the condescending comments. I know exactly what they are. Maybe YOU should read this article from The Washington Post. His explanation is exactly how I view Bitcoin. It's just a Ponzi scheme that needs a constant supply of new investors (suckers) to keep the ball rolling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-or-a-pyramid-scheme/?utm_term=.c1cfeedf464a

I’m going to need your help here, Tim. I read that article but I’ve had a long day of work on a very unfriendly schedule and I’m admittedly fatigued, which means that I’m prone to making mistakes. Where in that article was it explained how bitcoin (or any crypto currency) is a ponzi or pyramid scheme? There were a few sentences that implied it, but didn’t really explain it.

More to to the point, go back and read what I wrote again. You seem to be grouping all crypto currencies under the bitcoin header, but I am not. There are, what, a few thousand of them now? The vast majority of them will go nowhere. A few of the alt coins are obvious scams. But a few of them are improvements over the bitcoin model, and some of those don’t even utilize mining. As I said before, bitcoin proved the concept and got people thinking, but it will probably be something else that eventually becomes used for day to day commerce. Bitcoin itself is just too clunky and antiquated.

In closing, I’ll quote the 2015 article that you linked to in order to show what a visionary the author of it was:

" Even though it seems like Bitcoin prices should go up and up and up, it hasn't for a year and a half now. In fact, Bitcoin's $225-a-coin price is 80 percent less than its December 2013 peak. That said, Bitcoin might be a better way to send things online—or at least its technology, the blockchain, might—but, again, that depends on how much energy it takes to run the network. In the meantime, though, Bitcoin is still a little bit of a Ponzi—or is it a pyramid?—scheme that its libertarian early adopters are trying to cash in on."

So yeah...it’s a Ponzi, and the price isn’t going to go up, even though it should. Wait a minute...

 

[KRIKITTS]

Behind The Woodshed Blogcaster ? Jan 21, 2018 | Real Liberty Media

Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

Researchers Neil Gandal, JT Hamrick, Tyler Moore, and Tali Oberman have written a fascinating paper on Bitcoin price manipulation. Entitled “Price Manipulation in the Bitcoin Ecosystem” and appearing in the recent issue of the Journal of Monetary Economics the paper describes to what degree the Bitcoin ecosystem is controlled by bad actors.

To many it’s been obvious that the Bitcoin markets are, at the very least, being manipulated by one or two big players. “This paper identifies and analyzes the impact of suspicious trading activity on the Mt. Gox Bitcoin currency exchange, in which approximately 600,000 bitcoins (BTC) valued at $188 million were fraudulently acquired,” the researchers wrote. “During both periods, the USD-BTC exchange rate rose by an average of four percent on days when suspicious trades took place, compared to a slight decline on days without suspicious activity. Based on rigorous analysis with extensive robustness checks, the paper demonstrates that the suspicious trading activity likely caused the unprecedented spike in the USD-BTC exchange rate in late 2013, when the rate jumped from around $150 to more than $1,000 in two months.”

The team found that many instances of price manipulation happened simply because the market was very thin for various cryptocurrencies including early Bitcoin. “Despite the huge increase in market capitalization, similar to the bitcoin market in 2013 (the period examined), markets for these other cryptocurrencies are very thin. The number of cryptocurrencies has increased from approximately 80 during the period examined to 843 today! Many of these markets are thin and subject to price manipulation.”

The manipulation happened primarily via two bots, Markus and Willy, that seemed to be performing valid trades but did not actually own the bitcoin they were using. During the Mt. Gox hack a number of these bots were able to create fake trades and make off with millions while manipulating the price of BTC.

The publicly reported trading volume at Mt. Gox included the fraudulent transactions, thereby signaling to the market that heavy trading activity was taking place. Indeed, the paper later shows that even if the fraudulent activity is set aside, average trading volume on all major exchanges trading bitcoins and USD was much higher on days the bots were active. The associated increase in “non-bot” trading was, of course, profitable for Mt. Gox, since it collected transaction fees.

But the Willy Bot likely served another purpose as well. A theory, initially espoused in a Reddit post shortly after Mt. Gox’s collapse (Anonymous, 2014b), is that hackers stole a huge number (approximately 650,000) of bitcoins from Mt. Gox in June 2011 and that the exchange owner Mark Karpales took extraordinary steps to cover up the loss for several years.

The bottom line is simple: if Bitcoin wants to be taken seriously it probably shouldn’t be this easy or legal to manipulate the markets. While decentralization is supposed to replace regulation it’s clear that there is still a way to go before it can be truly taken seriously. “As mainstream finance invests in cryptocurrency assets and as countries take steps toward legalizing bitcoin as a payment system (as Japan did in April 2017), it is important to understand how susceptible cryptocurrency markets are to manipulation. Our study provides a first examination,” write the researchers.
Featured Image: Bryce Durbin

 

[Dave Rishar]

Behind The Woodshed Blogcaster ? Jan 21, 2018 | Real Liberty Media

The team found that many instances of price manipulation happened simply because the market was very thin for various cryptocurrencies including early Bitcoin.

I’m glad that you mentioned this. I discussed it a bit before, but it’s important to know and it’s rampant. Millionaires (known in the business as whales) will trigger a price spike with a large buy order. Thousandaires that don’t understand the game will go in when they see that spike, expecting a huge increase in value. The whale exits, floods the market, the price dips again, those same thousandaires panic sell, and that dips the price even lower. They lose money unnecessarily and gripe about it. What they should have done was buy on the dip, place their sell limits at something appropriate (10% higher is fairly safe and realistic) and let the whale carry them up with them.

The move that I described is known as a pump and dump. You don’t see it often in stocks because the stock market is regulated and this is illegal. Cryptos are unregulated and thus, it’s legal. It’s part of the game. The upside is that it makes it easy to realize large gains very quickly. The downside is that it makes it hard to use these currencies as actual currency.

But the Willy Bot likely served another purpose as well. A theory, initially espoused in a Reddit post shortly after Mt. Gox’s collapse (Anonymous, 2014b), is that hackers stole a huge number (approximately 650,000) of bitcoins from Mt. Gox in June 2011 and that the exchange owner Mark Karpales took extraordinary steps to cover up the loss for several years.

I’m guessing that those folks on Mt. Gox were relying on the exchange’s web wallet, and not something more secure. Most cryptos can be taken off the internet entirely if that’s what you want to do with it.

 

[Nicksan]

Saw an interview recently where the Winklevoss twins, the first "Bitcoin billionaires", said that GOLD "had a great 3000 year run" but that now Bitcoin would be replacing it.

In their deluded minds in will.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Yeah really show the winklevoss lack of understanding how money works. I was almost embarrassed for them.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Bitcoin, Ripple and other cryptocurrencies are falling like a rock this week. Bitcoin has now tanked to $8,400. Hate to say I told you so, but I did tell you it was too good to be true...

 

[1320]

Bitcoin, Ripple and other cryptocurrencies are falling like a rock this week. Bitcoin has now tanked to $8,400. Hate to say I told you so, but I did tell you it was too good to be true...

Yep, you told us so! Should have spent that money on beer...oh well, live and learn....

 

[Jason in Enid]

Yep, you told us so! Should have spent that money on beer...oh well, live and learn....

Well, you dont really buy beer.... you just rent it.