Winklevoss Twins on Bitcoin

  • Thread starter Thread starter enochsea7
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It's not too late to get on board! Yesterday, I think the Feds pretty much agree that it's not a Ponzi or tulips or any either word/phrase you haters like to use. The train is leaving folks

...and you believe what the feds say? That might be the first problem hehe.
Their truth is based on lies.

I’m not really sure that’s relevant even if it is a “ponzi scheme” the fact is, the feds say it’s cool. That makes investors feel more comfortable. They start buying again. Price goes back up. So the “get on the train” statement still holds.
 

As long as the investors feel good about it that's all that matters. It's their money to gamble with. If the feds claim it's not a Ponzi it must be true.
 

I have been saying all along that this dump didn't happen until the futures market got involved....the market is now being
manipulated by the whales and pushing out all of the little guys so they can get richer.
 

The Fed never said Bitcoin and others were legit. They're just not sure if they have a legal right to mess with it. They'll have to create a committee and discuss it for the next year or two, while thousands of people get fleeced out of their life savings in the meantime.

Bottom line, never bet on the government protecting you from anyone or anything...
 

[/QUOTE
Bottom line, never bet on the government protecting you from anyone or anything...[/QUOTE]

Ain’t that the truth. Which is part of the attraction of crypto currencies.
 

The future of Crypto has been damaged by Banks and foreign countries no longer accepting it as valid currency...

When were banks ever accepting crypto? (Well, except for Ripple, sort of. https://cointelegraph.com/news/ripp...rk-partners-with-china-based-payment-provider )

I believe that there are a few countries currently accepting crypto, but I personally wouldn't do business with at least two of them. There was some talk about Australia adopting one but I'm not sure if that went anywhere.

Bitcoin was at $5,960.00 at 3 AM and now it's at $7,200.00 seven hours later. It is obviously being manipulated by Bitfinex by buying up Bitcoin with Tether. And your chart is irrefutable proof that's exactly what they're doing. Every time it crashes, they prop it up again. Bitcoin is going to zero as soon as the government exposes their Ponzi scheme.

Of course it's being manipulated. Everything is manipulated. They're just less sneaky about it in the crypto market due to the lack of regulations.

Now, if the government "exposes their Ponzi scheme" (and again, Ponzi is the wrong term here), how will that make BTC go to zero? You seem to think that any government, or even all governments together, can exert control over the price of crypto except in a very temporary fashion due to hype.

Look at it this way. Say you have a stock that opened today at $5960.00 and seven hours later it was at $7,200.00. Then it drops to $5,550.00 the next morning, but goes back up to $7,000.00 by the end of the day. That would be a HUGE red flag that the stock was being manipulated by someone and it's a stock to avoid. Why is Bitcoin any different? It's being manipulated by someone and that's a great way to lose all your money very quickly. As soon as they give up on trying to prop it up (or regulators stop them), it will go to zero.

You seem to have a good grasp of this. How would regulators stop anything at this point?

So, what's causing the similar ebbs and flows of ALL of the crypto's simultaneously? I understand your rationale for Bitcoin however, there is no way that each and every coin is being manipulated the same way each and every time. It's impossible.

There are a lot of people doing the manipulating now. They simply focus on the "hot" alts that show up on the splash pages of the popular exchanges. So what does this have to do with the small alt coins? Simple: a lot of weak hands and easily panicked investors, which is why you see a lot of cryptos that aren't tied to BTC essentially track BTC price trends. This market is driven by hype. The investors are much more excitable and the trades happen in real time. Since the market never closes, it moves much more quickly than the stock market does.

Do you think the Dow and S&P are manipulated?

Oh yes. And when it's not being actively manipulated, it follows the (sometimes irrational) whims of the investors. People are herd animals. They tend to do what other people are doing, even if it's irrational. When the average investor in any market sees a lot of sells, they sell. When they see a lot of buys, they buy. When a lot of people are buying or selling all at once, it swings the price hard, which then convinces slightly more rational people to join in, and so on and so forth.

Depends on who you ask! Nothing is officially manipulated according to the feds and the bankers hehe.
The crashes we experience every 8-10 years are basically just huge wealth transfers. All that matters is which side you are on when it happens.

Agreed.

Once you understand how the system works on a macro scale, it's not too difficult to get on the correct side of things, right? And it's the same thing with crypto, or oil, or tulip bulbs.

Of course they are, as you can see today. The short sellers need fluctuation to profit. Stable market means no profit for them.

I've got a buddy that's doing pretty well in the short game just for this reason. Every day he sets his buy at ~6k and his sell at ~7k. It's been like clockwork with BTC over the last few days.
 

The Fed never said Bitcoin and others were legit. They're just not sure if they have a legal right to mess with it.

I don't think that they do. And if they did, how could they?

The genie's out of the bottle. The only difference between the ones and zeroes in a blockchain somewhere and the ones and zeroes in your bank account are that your bank's ones and zeroes are more universally accepted and less secure, and I suppose that they can't be manipulated as easily. (Whales running pump-and-dumps are insignificant compared to quantitative easing. The Fed is the biggest whale of them all.) They're still ones and zeroes backed by nothing other than our consensual shared hallucination that bits are somehow worth something.

I suspect that the only reason any governments at all are pissed off about crypto is not because it threatens their citizens, but because it makes central control of a currency system impossible. That would scare the hell out of me if I ran a country on fiat currency. But to go back to the "betting against the house" analogy that I questioned earlier, I think that I can answer my own question now. The house is comprised of governments and central banks, and while it's dangerous to bet against them, the house is holding two tens and crypto has a blackjack. What can the house really do at this point besides overturning the table and ruining their own game?

That's why I don't think crypto is going away. Now, if you were to ask me about whether or not a specific coin will be with us for the long term, think back to the heady alt.bomb days of the nineties. A lot of those jokers aren't around anymore, but Amazon is. Google is. The market's not big enough for everyone, but a few will survive, and they'll be big. (I don't think BTC will be among them, but Ripple very well may be.) But that's not going to happen until we're through the speculative phase, as besides the whales and the day traders, we also have the gamblers trying to guess what the next Amazon and Google will be. I wish them luck in winning that lottery. They'll need it.
 

Here's something that keeps a lot of people from jumping in....you don't have to buy a full coin to get in. If you only have a small amount of cash to put in, you can buy portions of a Bitcoin, called a satoshi. The satoshi is currently the smallest unit of the bitcoin currency recorded on the block chain. It is a one hundred millionth of a single bitcoin (0.00000001). All of the major coins can be bought in fractional units, you don't have to be rich to play, just toss in $20 bucks and see what happens.

Some of the up and coming coins can be bought for less than a dollar. There's a coin called Ripple XRP, it's selling today for around .78 cents. It was well over $3 not too long ago and it will more than likely climb the charts again. Who knows, this might be the next bitcoin! Throw $20 at Ripple and if it hits $8,000, you've hit a home run. What if it climbs to $20k?! Any of the up and coming cheap coins could do this.

And for arguments sake, let's say that all this is a Ponzi, who cares?! We're still at the bottom. I think the analysis is that only about 1% of the world population owns crypto currency right now. It's just a baby, it will grow up.

Buying crypto is an easy process too. You sign up for an account with an Exchange like Coinbase. It's pretty much the same as having a Paypal account. You link your bank account, send them money just like you would pay for something on ebay. Takes about 7 days for your money to clear and once it does, you're in. It was so easy, Coinbase has the major banks linked up so all you have to do is follow the links, you don't have to worry about account and routing numbers, again, just like Paypal. I can't say for sure but, I think you can use a debit card instead of linking your bank. Some credit cards can be used but that list is shrinking.

If you link your bank, you'll have to provide a copy of your drivers license and a copy of a recent utility bill. The US has a Know Your Customer law, that's why you have to provide it. No big deal. Just make sure you have those ready and in the proper format/size and color beforehand. It's easily done on a smartphone, lap or desk top.

Once you purchase some coins (or partials), they are stored with the Exchange in a "wallet" or if you're worried about hacking, you can buy a device called a cold wallet and transfer them from the exchange to yourself. The Exchanges have both hot and cold wallets. When you hear about coins being stolen/hacked, the thieves are breaking into the Exchange hot wallet. Coinbase for example stores about 20% of their customers coins in the hot wallet. The balance is in the cold wallet. The cold wallet is impenetrable, it is safe. A certain amount of coins have to remain in the hot wallet in order for the exchange to conduct business, that's just the nature of crypto. FYI, Coinbase has never been hacked to date and is a US company. They also state that they will cover losses in the event of a hack.

One last thing, you have to pay a small fee for each transfer of money as well as buy and sell transactions, I think the most I've paid so far is $4.99 to transfer money in, that's pretty standard in the banking world. There are fees for withdrawal as well. These fees are how the Exchanges make money, they are simply a broker putting buyers and sellers together.
 

I'm still watching it and waiting to see what happens but it's anyone's guess. There are always ways to make money but it's a gamble and at this point hasn't stabilized much.


I didn't realize you needed a utility bill? I live off grid and no bills besides cell and car insurance.
 

I'm still watching it and waiting to see what happens but it's anyone's guess. There are always ways to make money but it's a gamble and at this point hasn't stabilized much.


I didn't realize you needed a utility bill? I live off grid and no bills besides cell and car insurance.

Pretty sure any bill with name and address that matches drivers license will work. Bank statement is preferred for some exchanges but not Coinbase. I wish you luck if you decide to go for it!
 

Sorry to be so negative. You guys have a firm grasp regarding the risk, so good luck to you all.
 

Sorry to be so negative. You guys have a firm grasp regarding the risk, so good luck to you all.

Always good to have a balanced conversation and I for one didn't take your replies as negative. You represent the other side of the conversation very well.
 

It will be interesting to see how cryptos react as the stock market melts down.
Money seems to have disappeared into the ether but may show back up tomorrow, in a big buy-in somewhere else?
There could be a big move into cryptos and other assets but I think that stock investors might feel more safe going into cryptos vs the dollar.
If I felt more comfortable with cryptos I'd feel ok playing $1000 but I'm holding out for now. I'd want my original investment and some interest back asap and I might keep a little winnings in there and let them ride. Problem is Im not sure enough.
For now it's watch and learn, see how it reacts during a crash and against other assets. Id want some history and don't have much yet with it all so new. I imagine it will do well against the dollar and that may be one strength.
I'd probably bite all my fingernails off the way it is now hehe.

Whether it's a Ponzi or not, it's legal and there's some making money off the backs of others and it's about making money sad to say.
Soon enough we will see what happens and then we will know for sure. My inkling is that Bitcoin has seen it's day and I'd sell that junk now and take what's there. With all the competition and endless other cryptos out there it's a no brainer. Everyone should have cashed out when it was in the crazy stage but people thought it was still going up. I was watching this going on and thinking that it will blindside them, and that day came and went but I thought it would happen before 18,000. If I owned them I would have sold at 18,000 but I lost out not being in the coin.
I'm fine with that because I didn't want in at the time and it wasn't my gamble to take. If I was a younger guy or a single man it might be different but I have to answer to big sarg and I'm too old to lose anything at this point hehe. I still like to trade in my head and see if I can pin it and sometimes I do. Sometimes things keep growing and I didn't imagine it.
I was way off on my stock market record high guesses. I never dreamed it would go that high.

I'm still negative on the coins for now but doesn't mean that won't change. Just never know what's going to happen and not a time that I'd buy in now.
It's funny I've always been an adrenaline junkie but never with my money. I don't even like casinos or lottery tickets. I've always believed the casinos and lotterys were for people that were really really bad at math.
Plus big sarg don't take no gruff when money goes missing and she's got momma bear syndrome so I learned over the years.

Everything has been good and civil here imo. We all have our opinions and views of things and that's how the world is. It's all good!
 

It will be interesting to see how cryptos react as the stock market melts down.
Money seems to have disappeared into the ether but may show back up tomorrow, in a big buy-in somewhere else?
There could be a big move into cryptos and other assets but I think that stock investors might feel more safe going into cryptos vs the dollar.
If I felt more comfortable with cryptos I'd feel ok playing $1000 but I'm holding out for now. I'd want my original investment and some interest back asap and I might keep a little winnings in there and let them ride. Problem is Im not sure enough.
For now it's watch and learn, see how it reacts during a crash and against other assets. Id want some history and don't have much yet with it all so new. I imagine it will do well against the dollar and that may be one strength.
I'd probably bite all my fingernails off the way it is now hehe.

Whether it's a Ponzi or not, it's legal and there's some making money off the backs of others and it's about making money sad to say.
Soon enough we will see what happens and then we will know for sure. My inkling is that Bitcoin has seen it's day and I'd sell that junk now and take what's there. With all the competition and endless other cryptos out there it's a no brainer. Everyone should have cashed out when it was in the crazy stage but people thought it was still going up. I was watching this going on and thinking that it will blindside them, and that day came and went but I thought it would happen before 18,000. If I owned them I would have sold at 18,000 but I lost out not being in the coin.
I'm fine with that because I didn't want in at the time and it wasn't my gamble to take. If I was a younger guy or a single man it might be different but I have to answer to big sarg and I'm too old to lose anything at this point hehe. I still like to trade in my head and see if I can pin it and sometimes I do. Sometimes things keep growing and I didn't imagine it.
I was way off on my stock market record high guesses. I never dreamed it would go that high.

I'm still negative on the coins for now but doesn't mean that won't change. Just never know what's going to happen and not a time that I'd buy in now.
It's funny I've always been an adrenaline junkie but never with my money. I don't even like casinos or lottery tickets. I've always believed the casinos and lotterys were for people that were really really bad at math.
Plus big sarg don't take no gruff when money goes missing and she's got momma bear syndrome so I learned over the years.

Everything has been good and civil here imo. We all have our opinions and views of things and that's how the world is. It's all good!

Sounds like a good strategy. I too watched it for a while before jumping in. Ironically, what pushed me in was my two teenage kids asking for crypto for one of their Christmas presents...lol. It was money that was going to be wasted on something that would be tossed in less than a year so what the heck? They have bragging rights at school as a result and both have stayed interested in the market, checking it daily and wanting to put more of their own money in. It's funny, when the lotteries would get up in the 300+ million, we'd sit around a camp fire and talk about what we'd buy if we won, Now, we talk about what we're going to buy when our crypto goes to the moon....lol.

Four years ago in middle school, you were the man if you wore Lebron Nike tennis shoes, two years ago, if you were in middle school and had an arsenal of fidget spinners, you were legit, this year, if you own crypto you're tops. Dang, they grow up fast.
 

I own no BTC and have no interest in doing so, but let's play a little game and pretend that I'm interested, and I buy one BTC right now. ($9174.) I don't want to sit on this for over a year, so when I cash out, I'm looking at short term capital gains taxes, which means that Uncle Sam will want 22% of what I make, meaning that I'll have to make $11,192.28 just to break even. I'm in this for fast gains though, so I want to make at least a grand or so for the minute or so of button pushing that it will take me to buy this. As I don't like weird numbers, we'll just call this $13k. I've bought my BTC and I've placed my sell limit at $13k. How long will I have to wait to make $1800 on my $9000 investment after taxes?

I predict no more than a month, probably less than two weeks. Let's see if I'm close.

We're getting awfully close to the two week point and BTC is only at $10k. I know that I gave myself a month, but I'd rather see two weeks. Will my sell limit be hit? Can a rational man predict what an irrational market will do? More importantly, did I seriously screw up when BTC dipped to $6k and I still stayed away from it? (Yes. At a $6k buy, I would have placed a sell at $9k and laughed my way to the bank a few days ago.)

Sometimes I think that I should take my own advice, but only sometimes. Let's see how close I got this time.
 

We're getting awfully close to the two week point and BTC is only at $10k. I know that I gave myself a month, but I'd rather see two weeks. Will my sell limit be hit? Can a rational man predict what an irrational market will do? More importantly, did I seriously screw up when BTC dipped to $6k and I still stayed away from it? (Yes. At a $6k buy, I would have placed a sell at $9k and laughed my way to the bank a few days ago.)

Sometimes I think that I should take my own advice, but only sometimes. Let's see how close I got this time.


The best strategy I saw for buying and selling was to set a rolling average timeline you are comfortable with, such as 30 day, 60, 1 week, etc. Then you watch the daily price compared to that average. IT doesn't matter how low the CURRENT price is if its not below that average then you dont buy. When you see a big dip against the average, thats your time to buy, or buy more. When it spike above the average thats your time to sell. You wont likely buy at the lowest low or sell at the highest but its a strategy for making solid profit instead of just guessing and gambling.
 

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