wire Coating Issues ?

jeff of pa

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This is The 2nd. Sovereign I had this Issue with.

Recently I packed up my Sovereign XS2 Pro & Noticed the Wire that was wrapped around
the Stem was Peeling Off. Detector was sitting For Years, So I Blamed it on Age.

A couple Weeks ago a Friend gave me 2 Sovereign GT's.
One Still in the Box,

the other he converted to Chest Mount.

I re converted it to normal hand use.


He did not have this coil on, He had a Small After Market.
I Put the Original on (also been sitting for years But in the Box, Not installed)

I Haven't used it yet but Last night I Glanced at it &

DSCF0001.JPG

DSCF0003.JPG

DSCF0004.JPG

Is this a Quality Control Issue,
Age issue ,
Or environmental Issue of some Type ?
I suppose the Stress of Being Rapped may have contributed, But seriously,I've seen early 70's Whites Coinmasters Rapped since New (40/50 years) with no Issues.

Has me really Confused.

I tried looking on line ,
I Found nothing other then Mention of a Change due to the Enviro-Psycho's
mandates on certain Copper Wire Coating. I seen nothing on This type of Wires
 
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SD51

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Jeff, it appears that the combination of wrapping the coil's cable tightly around the shaft and possibly the temperature the coil was exposed to for years caused the cable's outer coating (most likely PVC) to separate and become brittle. Notice that this is not a shielded cable and note that the actual wire insulation is still intact, so I would predict that the coil will still function since no wires appear to be shorted together.

PVC (polyvinyl chloride) coating on wires will give off chemicals (plasticizers) throughout their life. The plasticizers are used to help keep the material supple. If you have ever wondered why the inside of the windshield on your car develops a build-up of any oily substance, it's caused by the plasticizers migrating out of the PVC dash.
 

SD51

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I haven't seen this happen to coils and am wondering if the cable manufacturer had a bad batch of cable leave their facility?
 
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jeff of pa

jeff of pa

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THANKS For the Response !

I don't know but it really Sickens me :(
Naturally Sovereigns are Defunct & Slowly going into Extinction.

I leaned that So many years ago ,,
I Know Minelab has Washed their Hands of them...so to speak....

Like you said this is not a shielded cable,
So I Can probably just Rap it Tightly with
a Couple Layers of Black Tape. though, I'm not sure if it will Rap around the stem as Easily After.
Never done it before.

& yes the inner Wires still look good.

Definitely not an Alien Wire Chewer In the House :coffee2:
 

SD51

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Jeff, there is a product called "heat shrink tubing" that will shrink down significantly when heated with a heatgun. You would have to buy it in a size that will fit over your coil's cable connector and then slide it down over the entire cable. I'm not sure if it will shrink down enough to fit tightly over your cable but it's worth a try.

https://buyheatshrink.com/heatshrin...hrink tubing&utm_content=HeatShrink - General
 

Toecutter

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If you spray deet any where near your machine it can have an effect on anything plastic....
 
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jeff of pa

jeff of pa

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I haven't used The detector yet.
& Unless Avon Skin so soft Bug spray is deet, & Not Picaridin I haven't used Deet in years
 

smallfoot

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That cable might be housed in a vegetable based plastic sheathing. Found that out about the coatings on some automobile wiring. It draws the likes of squirrels and rats and mice to chew on it also. Breaks down easily in the atmosphere. It was one of those money saving moves...
 

moreb

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I had the same thing happen. I bought mine in 2009. Always stored inside. Never abused. May have been used for a total of 10 hours. I decided to use it last fall and use the big coil and the same thing happened. I have a electrician friend who came over checked it for shorts or bare spots didn't find any wrapped with some kind of heavy duty electrical tape and it works fine.
 
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jeff of pa

jeff of pa

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I wrapped mine Tightly with Black Electrical tape from end to End.
I Never heard of Electrical tape Cracking so Hopefully, If it doesn't eventually loose it's Sticky,
It should Last the detector.

Re: smallfoot

"vegetable based plastic sheathing" ?
Now I Have another reason I Think Vegetables should be Banned :coffee2:
 

moreb

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I've never have heard anything bad about Bacon wrapped.

But vegetable wrapped? I'm with Jeff!
 

boogeyman

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Jeff, Had the same problem with two of my Sovereign coils. Simple permanent fix. Go to the Graingers.com website and order a spool of heatshrink it's cheap and a spool will give you enough to do three coils (single layer) or one double layer & a single layer. Double layer may be a little stiff unless you're brutal on your coils. Hint - When you remove the plug cut the wires off leaving a little of the insulation on the plug. Saves you weeks trying to remember where you left the pin out for it. Not hard to do, it should take like 45 minutes total time. If you don't have a heat gun(I highly recommend), Harbor Freight has them for like $9.
The problem is from the stabilizers not getting mixed right in the extruder. Saw this same thing with some mic cables that came back and we had to replace something like 600 and do all the tests for MIL-SPEC again. Yup company lost their butts on that one.

I'll try to find the spool and post the part number for it, when I get over to where it is.
 

SanMan

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I know this issue by heart.

I spent close to a year researching the cause, and developing the fix.

My problem coils.JPG \

My problem coils 2.JPG

My problem coils 3.JPG


The cause was a screw up in the purchasing department at Minelab.

The "Urethane" sheathed cable was a back order. Some clown on the supplier end
"suggested a cable with the exact specs."

Electrically it was a match, conductor wise it was a match, "But", the outer sheath, was "PVC".
It was meant for an indoor environment. Can't take sun, can't take this, can't take that.
Doesn't age well, but it cost less. More for microphones and band equipment.

The complaints poured into Minelab, they tracked down the screw up.
"And then did not honor any warranty remedy whatsoever.

I worked with a cable manufacturer that makes, and sells, to the military.
Sat two coils in front of him, one good, one bad. In 2 seconds he said,
this sheathing is Urethane, this one is PVC. He went on to tell me that
they manufacturer cable that is used by the military, the offshore oil industry, ect.
Some of that harsh environment cable is not available to the public.
The sheathing is proprietary. He said the lifetime of those cables is near "forever".

I worked with the owner and developed the fix.

My idea was to repair the coils in batches.
Owners of the bad coils never really followed through, so there you have it.

Wound up nothing was ever done.

A big waste of my time and effort.
 

SanMan

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Jeff, Had the same problem with two of my Sovereign coils. Simple permanent fix. Go to the Graingers.com website and order a spool of heatshrink it's cheap .


If the fix was that easy, women and children would have done it.

Yes, a spool of it "is Cheap". Because it's not the correct material.

It took me nearly a year to come up with the "Correct Fix" because the answer
isn't to use PVC heat shrink tubing to fix the failure of PVC sheathing!

There is heat shrink tubing made from other materials, but not a single one fit the bill.


So there you have it.
 

boogeyman

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If the fix was that easy, women and children would have done it.Yes, a spool of it "is Cheap". Because it's not the correct material.It took me nearly a year to come up with the "Correct Fix" because the answerisn't to use PVC heat shrink tubing to fix the failure of PVC sheathing!There is heat shrink tubing made from other materials, but not a single one fit the bill.So there you have it.
Correct material - we're just trying to keep a coil working not trying to meet MIL-SPEC. Most people here don't have a year to waste on research. Why haven't women & children done it? Guess they don't own a soldering iron or heat gun? You're assuming PVC heat shrink. Ray Chem has numerous types and materials. I've used Kynar as a stress relief, ever hear of it? There's another (I can't remember the name) that has a sealant that when heated forces the air & moisture out of the joint that would work, but is a tad rigid. If your coil is losing it's jacket the heat shrink is a fix most of the people here can do affordably. My Sovereign coil is going on two years with this fix, so it is suitable. I gave an old TR to a friend I repaired using RNF 100 (Ray Chem) heat shrink in 1993 and he's still using it to do building searches with only a couple nicks. Oh, let's not forget how many CB mics I've repaired over the years. Sorry you wasted a year. Check out the Ray Chem website.

Instead of wasting a year, why didn't you just melt the resin in the loop & just replace the whole cable? Ever use MEK to peel the potting material off dongles (old school copy protection) for main frames? Same process...........
 
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jeff of pa

jeff of pa

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black tape looks a bit "Wonky" but If it Holds up it's Good enough For My Money :coffee2:

(the roll was in the Hoard of Detectors & Parts, Etc.) I Got for Free .

So If I Don't update it is Holding..

DSCF0001.JPG

DSCF0003.JPG

As you can see from my top pic, Most of the Original Coating (99.9999% was still there, Just Cracked, and starting to Peel);
I Caught it at the Beginning on this Detector, it didn't look like SanMan's yet.
or my other Sovereign's coil wire.
So I Just Left what didn't Crack off while rapping it, on
 
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cudamark

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Yup, poor quality insulation for outdoor use. I've used that rubber/plastic tool dip stuff with good results. Kinda messy to apply on a coiled cable and sometimes takes a couple of dunks, but, once done, it's nice and flexible and seems to last a long time. I've also used RTV for small tears in insulation.
 

boogeyman

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Yup, poor quality insulation for outdoor use. I've used that rubber/plastic tool dip stuff with good results. Kinda messy to apply on a coiled cable and sometimes takes a couple of dunks, but, once done, it's nice and flexible and seems to last a long time. I've also used RTV for small tears in insulation.
Insul-dip Sooooo many uses! There's a "liquid electrical tape" that comes in a can with the brush in the cap. Works to keep stuff out of the connectors and for quick field repairs. A funny example, one of my buddies nicked his cable bad. Used it to kind of glue down the insulation on the wires, then repaired the outer jacket with a piece of soda straw glued on with it & coated. Saved the day! And he never did anything to it again. You can speed up the drying time with a heat gun. WAIT! heat gun out in the field you ask!?!? Doesn't everyone have an inverter under their passenger seat!?!?!
 

boogeyman

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black tape looks a bit "Wonky" but If it Holds up it's Good enough For My Money :coffee2:

(the roll was in the Hoard of Detectors & Parts, Etc.) I Got for Free .

So If I Don't update it is Holding..

View attachment 1763899

View attachment 1763900

As you can see from my top pic, Most of the Original Coating (99.9999% was still there, Just Cracked, and starting to Peel);
I Caught it at the Beginning on this Detector, it didn't look like SanMan's yet.
or my other Sovereign's coil wire.
So I Just Left what didn't Crack off while rapping it, on
Sorry dude, that ain't wonky! That's custom!
 

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