Woodbury Cabin

[Old]

What's the local info on Woodbury Cabin?

Is that a place name that dates back as far as Waltz or is that something newer?

Was the area of the cabin a part of Elisha Reavis ranch or something separate?

Lynda

 

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[azdave35]

What's the local info on Woodbury Cabin?

Is that a place name that dates back as far as Waltz or is that something newer?

Was the area of the cabin a part of Elisha Reavis ranch or something separate?

Lynda

send an email to tom kollenborn...he'll give you the run down on woodbury

 

[cactusjumper]

Old,

Unfortunately, It's unlikely that Tom will post the information here. If he does, that's all good. If not, I don't think he will mind my telling the story of Ms. Debbie Hatch and her sons. (The Woodbury brothers). I assume that is the Woodbury's you are inquiring about.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Old]

Joe, please do tell. I'm assuming this has much to do with the Silver Chief but I'm unsure of the time frame and the players.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe, please do tell. I'm assuming this has much to do with the Silver Chief but I'm unsure of the time frame and the players.

Lynda,

Nice assumption! Here is something I posted on the other LDM Forum in 2007:

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Wayne, Managed to find my record of the Silver Chief. It comes from the files of Greg Davis, by way of Jack Carlson. ----------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- I finally found the Woodbury Claim papers for the Silver Chief Mine in Rogers Canyon. They are in the Pinal County Recorder, Record of Mines Book #36, pages 117-120. Dated May 25, 1919. The Woodbury's (actually Abbie Hatch) list them as Silver Chief and Silver Chief #2, #3, and #4. They also list a "Rock Cabin Claim" that is probably the area to the east and down slope where we found the ruins of some stone structures. Rock Cabin Claim adjoins the Silver Chief #4 on the west side. I made a note on one of the claim papers that they switched the position of the Silver Chief and Silver Chief #2 within their own claim papers on one of the documents. ----------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Have you been to the Silver Chief........are you sure? I believe there were different names back in the 1800s. What's really interesting, is the description of the location on the claim forms. Have fun, Joe _______________________________________

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The interesting part, was the claim documents place the Silver Chief around 3-miles northwest of the Pit Mine that is being advertised as the Silver Chief.

Probably best to ask Tom Kollenborn or Greg Davis about the Woodbury's.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[RG1976]

Old - I've been reading quite a bit about the Woodbury Cabin - and have a pending offer from one of my new dutch-hunting buddies to take me out to the area. Unsure if it will be part of a video, but will certainly take some photos for you.

 

[cactusjumper]

Lynda,

I believe the Woodbury's came on the scene around 1909. Going from memory, as I am at our store right now. Memory ain't so good as it use to be.

The first thing in Tom's "Chronological History......" is "August 24, 1907, the Woodbury brothers and their mother, Mrs. Hatch operate the Superstition Mining Company in the Superstition Mountains". Page 54

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Old]

Joe, Ryan and Dave, Thank you very much for the information.

I think I want to nose around in the mine claims. Are those recorded at Pinal county court or somewhere with the state? Sounds like this was a filing on an existing mine?? Is that you take on it? Do you know who mined it before the Woodbury's?

Ryan, pictures would be wonderful. Can't wait for the next video. Will have to stock in extra popcorn for that one.

Lynda

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe, Ryan and Dave, Thank you very much for the information.

I think I want to nose around in the mine claims. Are those recorded at Pinal county court or somewhere with the state? Sounds like this was a filing on an existing mine?? Is that you take on it? Do you know who mined it before the Woodbury's?

Ryan, pictures would be wonderful. Can't wait for the next video. Will have to stock in extra popcorn for that one.

Lynda

Lynda,

I have a map from the 1800s showing all of the claims in that area. I will try to copy it in sections and post it. I believe I got my copy of the map from Jack Carlson or Greg Davis. My apologies to both men, as I just can't remember at this time. It was one of them for sure.

For anyone looking for documents or information concerning the Superstitions, they would be two of the best sources, after Tom Kollenborn.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[lgadbois]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/200618-pinto-creek.html

 

[cactusjumper]

Another tid-bit from Tom Kollenborn's "The Chronological History of the Superstition Wilderness Area....":

"March 6, 1908, Ms. Debbie Hatch, mother of the Woodbury brothers, accused of mining claim fraud." Page 56

From page 57: "April 4, 1908, Woodbury's in trouble over claim jumping near the Silver King."

The family was in the newspapers often in this period and later, but I haven't seen a follow up on the last two events. My guess would be that they were never charged or they settled.

I believe they were said to have a "very good" copper mine in the Superstitions. There also seems to be little doubt that they had good silver claims.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/200618-pinto-creek.html

igadbois,

That's a pretty good string.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

So Joe - when will our mystery guys step forward to claim their honors, for having found the Lost Dutchman mine of legend?

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

While I think they may have found the LDM, I'm not certain. I do think the Pit Mine beats all the other "found" LDMs as a possibility. The only thing that makes me unsure, is that I believe the LDM is on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, just south of Willow Spring. In addition, I believe it may be shown on the Stone Maps.

If that is so, whoever(s) created the Stone Maps knew exactly where the LDM was. That would make the possibility of the LDM having been cleaned out many years ago, a good bet.

If that is true, Ruth's camp and likely search area was close to the same thing. Once again, Bicknell also camped at Willow Spring.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

While I think they may have found the LDM, I'm not certain. I do think the Pit Mine beats all the other "found" LDMs as a possibility. The only thing that makes me unsure, is that I believe the LDM is on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, just south of Willow Spring. In addition, I believe it may be shown on the Stone Maps.

If that is so, whoever(s) created the Stone Maps knew exactly where the LDM was. That would make the possibility of the LDM having been cleaned out many years ago, a good bet.

If that is true, Ruth's camp and likely search area was close to the same thing. Once again, Bicknell also camped at Willow Spring.

Take care,

Joe

I see - so we will just have to take their anonymous unspoken word for it, and as a side thing, all that debate over the different types of gold veins, which even Dr Glover addressed in his book, doesn't mean anything, correct? It is a good bet that the LDM was all cleaned out, because most Arizona lode veins are Epithermal type and they do commonly pinch out. The matchbox ore doesn't mean anything, nor any other piece attributed to Waltz, because ore can vary within a vein, so we can ignore what the geologists classify them by, mineral grain size, since that doesn't mean anything either.

I guess that whole ore discussion can rank right up there with the part about Wells Fargo never shipped any gold or ore out of Arizona during the period when Waltz was alive.

Since the mine of legend has been found and all cleaned out, why not spread the word? Perhaps the Superstitions Wilderness will get converted into a National Monument, think of the money the govt could make from fees and permits, and the man-made Superstition wilderness could then be safe from anyone digging for gold in it ever again. Heck a National Monument even has tight controls on how many people can enter it at any one time, and can dictate where you can camp too, so you won't have trouble finding a place to park at a trailhead. I have been half expecting that hammer to fall any time for the last sixteen years, and there are people pushing for it too. I think it would be a horrible idea, but then my word carries no weight. Maybe if the word can get out that the LDM was found and all cleaned out, from people whose word does carry weight, <like you for instance> there won't be another man killed in the Superstitions hunting the LDM?

Well I am still learning this trade, and have learned a bunch here on T-net recently.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

I see - so we will just have to take their anonymous unspoken word for it, and as a side thing, all that debate over the different types of gold veins, which even Dr Glover addressed in his book, doesn't mean anything, correct? It is a good bet that the LDM was all cleaned out, because most Arizona lode veins are Epithermal type and they do commonly pinch out. The matchbox ore doesn't mean anything, nor any other piece attributed to Waltz, because ore can vary within a vein, so we can ignore what the geologists classify them by, mineral grain size, since that doesn't mean anything either.

I guess that whole ore discussion can rank right up there with the part about Wells Fargo never shipped any gold or ore out of Arizona during the period when Waltz was alive.

Since the mine of legend has been found and all cleaned out, why not spread the word? Perhaps the Superstitions Wilderness will get converted into a National Monument, think of the money the govt could make from fees and permits, and the man-made Superstition wilderness could then be safe from anyone digging for gold in it ever again. Heck a National Monument even has tight controls on how many people can enter it at any one time, and can dictate where you can camp too, so you won't have trouble finding a place to park at a trailhead. I have been half expecting that hammer to fall any time for the last sixteen years, and there are people pushing for it too. I think it would be a horrible idea, but then my word carries no weight. Maybe if the word can get out that the LDM was found and all cleaned out, from people whose word does carry weight, <like you for instance> there won't be another man killed in the Superstitions hunting the LDM?

Well I am still learning this trade, and have learned a bunch here on T-net recently.
Oroblanco

Roy,

Think you need to reread my post. Don't believe I wrote anything like that. If you feel that's the best course for you to take, concerning the LDM, go right ahead and discount whatever you like.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

While I think they may have found the LDM, I'm not certain. I do think the Pit Mine beats all the other "found" LDMs as a possibility. The only thing that makes me unsure, is that I believe the LDM is on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, just south of Willow Spring. In addition, I believe it may be shown on the Stone Maps.

If that is so, whoever(s) created the Stone Maps knew exactly where the LDM was. That would make the possibility of the LDM having been cleaned out many years ago, a good bet.

If that is true, Ruth's camp and likely search area was close to the same thing. Once again, Bicknell also camped at Willow Spring.

Take care,

Joe

Roy,

To make it easier, I have highlight the pertinent words.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"I guess that whole ore discussion can rank right up there with the part about Wells Fargo never shipped any gold or ore out of Arizona during the period when Waltz was alive."

I thought I had agreed with you, and Terry, that "Walz" did ship $250,000 worth of gold to the U.S. Mint in Sacramento, CA from Arizona over the period from 1881-1889. Another truth from Terry is that: "Jacob Walz was fired from the Vulture Mine for highgrading and turned up in Phoenix."

I think we can safely put Terry's excellent research, on the LDM, behind us, and move on. There seems little doubt that Dr. Chandler of Wells Fargo did not have the great resources at his disposal that Terry possessed.

Lets get back to the Woodbury conversation.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

"I guess that whole ore discussion can rank right up there with the part about Wells Fargo never shipped any gold or ore out of Arizona during the period when Waltz was alive."

I thought I had agreed with you, and Terry, that "Walz" did ship $250,000 worth of gold to the U.S. Mint in Sacramento, CA from Arizona over the period from 1881-1889. Another truth from Terry is that: "Jacob Walz was fired from the Vulture Mine for highgrading and turned up in Phoenix."

I think we can safely put Terry's excellent research, on the LDM, behind us, and move on. There seems little doubt that Dr. Chandler of Wells Fargo did not have the great resources at his disposal that Terry possessed.

Lets get back to the Woodbury conversation.

Take care,

Joe

I put a portion of your statement in bold, to highlight the MIS-reading and misunderstanding that has been going on for years now. Is that the point I was trying to get across? You are not in agreement with me on that point for that is absolutely not the point I was trying to make. It is a great example though of the futility involved in trying to debate when there is no understanding of what is being argued. Dr. Chandler's word trumps all evidence contrary, those old newspaper ads and announcements must be lying and exaggerating.

You have been telling us about the secret mining of the Pit mine and its ID as the LDM for years now. The story has been passed around the campfires, but never brought forward where it might get questioned. Were I to pass along such a story, I would expect people to want to see more. The fact that none of those involved have come forward (publicly) could be seen by some as a reason for doubt. But what do I know?

It is notable that the Woodburys were involved in some clashes with other mines of the area, including the Silver King. It would be interesting to see a map of the mining claims of the Rogers (or Randolph and several other names) district, and the location of the Woodbury cabin in relation to the claim boundaries.


Oroblanco

 

[azdave35]

I put a portion of your statement in bold, to highlight the MIS-reading and misunderstanding that has been going on for years now. Is that the point I was trying to get across? You are not in agreement with me on that point for that is absolutely not the point I was trying to make. It is a great example though of the futility involved in trying to debate when there is no understanding of what is being argued. Dr. Chandler's word trumps all evidence contrary, those old newspaper ads and announcements must be lying and exaggerating.

You have been telling us about the secret mining of the Pit mine and its ID as the LDM for years now. The story has been passed around the campfires, but never brought forward where it might get questioned. Were I to pass along such a story, I would expect people to want to see more. The fact that none of those involved have come forward (publicly) could be seen by some as a reason for doubt. But what do I know?

It is notable that the Woodburys were involved in some clashes with other mines of the area, including the Silver King. It would be interesting to see a map of the mining claims of the Rogers (or Randolph and several other names) district, and the location of the Woodbury cabin in relation to the claim boundaries.


Oroblanco

roy...you have the thickest skull i ever saw...lol.....i think everyone else here understands why the guys at the pit mine are silent...why is that so hard for you to grasp?