Would 19th or early 20th century German/Irish immigrants to the USA use feet or meters to mark their cache?

[Prairie Gazingfox]

The area I am referring to is in NE Illinois and I found SOME detailed historical
Accounts of what type of immigrants settled in that particular area, but NOT very much
Information as a whole.
Most likely they were German farmers and by what trash is still left there I assess they
Must have been at least 2nd generation as there were remains of some electrical USA made
Home devices, 2 incredibly sturdy frames of Sun back yard Umbrellas made out of Aluminium-zinc alloy or something similar...These
Umbrella frames were so strong( and yet neither too thin nor too thick ) that with arms I had a hard time bending one,
Whereas for the central Aluminium pipe/ pole it was incredibly tough!! I was jumping on it while being laid onto a stone and I with my 200 plus pounds couldn't Even begin to bend it.....Totally different from any China equivalent today, I think.
There were also several partial pieces of Window screens. They were made out of almost pure Copper while there were also Thicker windows screens made out of galvanized steel and found 1 piece made out of what I would call early Lead-tin alloy, if I am not mistaken.....
Anyway, I think there is something buried about 120 yards from where that particular farm Edgeline used to be.
2 attempts were made to locate it by our colleagues, in previous decades, . 1 of them were digging about 9 feet too far from where I believe the cache is while the other guys ( I think it was at least 2 persons) had dug an incredible 5 or 6 feet deep hole that was equally wide. Gradually it seems that hole has lost between 1/3 and half of its original depth
The stone markings have quite a bit of moss onto them but it's hard for me to guess when a human hand pit them there...as there are various types of trees and vegetation that would facilitate the moss- accumulation but I don't kn.ow about that much.
Anyway, I estimated the cache is exactly 26 to 27 feet from the main markers ( 3 stones in a circle). There are other stone markets too.
Initially I thought it was 25 feet away. But later I realized it's EXACTLY 27 feet to center of markings and that comes to almost exactly 8 meters or 9 yards.....
That Realization also started me thinking that the reason it was not found so far ( I believe ) is because most younger generation USA born would be thinking number of feet and not meters?
Hence my question....
Last thought, I am not sure if the section of land where I think it is hidden was ever actually part of that farm....for there are only iron incredibly old fence leftovers and other mostly cast iron/ black steel type.of leftovers 20 or 30 yards from where the suspected spot is....

 

[Red-Coat]

In Britain, including Ireland, people would have used both feet and yards, typically using feet for shorter distances and yards for longer ones (with an arbitrary distinction between the two). In Mainland Europe, including Germany, they would have used meters.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

In Britain, including Ireland, people would have used both feet and yards, typically using feet for shorter distances and yards for longer ones (with an arbitrary distinction between the two). In Mainland Europe, including Germany, they would have used meters.

Yeah, good to know!
But in their final hours before immersing it in the ground, who knows if their homeland brain or their New homeland brain prevailed in deciding the distance: ))

 

[Sandog]

Yeah, good to know!
But in their final hours before immersing it in the ground, who knows if their homeland brain or their New homeland brain prevailed in deciding the distance: ))

Well, there you go, flip a coin. OR, figure it both ways.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

Well, there you go, flip a coin. OR, figure it both ways.

Yes, that's self-explanatory! Haha. You Improved my mood!
Well there are also 2 small kind of sharp stones standing upright that ate like 15 yards away and I think they point the direction from a diagonal end.....

 

[achanceforgold]

The area I am referring to is in NE Illinois and I found SOME detailed historical
Accounts of what type of immigrants settled in that particular area, but NOT very much
Information as a whole.
Most likely they were German farmers and by what trash is still left there I assess they
Must have been at least 2nd generation as there were remains of some electrical USA made
Home devices, 2 incredibly sturdy frames of Sun back yard Umbrellas made out of Aluminium-zinc alloy or something similar...These
Umbrella frames were so strong( and yet neither too thin nor too thick ) that with arms I had a hard time bending one,
Whereas for the central Aluminium pipe/ pole it was incredibly tough!! I was jumping on it while being laid onto a stone and I with my 200 plus pounds couldn't Even begin to bend it.....Totally different from any China equivalent today, I think.
There were also several partial pieces of Window screens. They were made out of almost pure Copper while there were also Thicker windows screens made out of galvanized steel and found 1 piece made out of what I would call early Lead-tin alloy, if I am not mistaken.....
Anyway, I think there is something buried about 120 yards from where that particular farm Edgeline used to be.
2 attempts were made to locate it by our colleagues, in previous decades, . 1 of them were digging about 9 feet too far from where I believe the cache is while the other guys ( I think it was at least 2 persons) had dug an incredible 5 or 6 feet deep hole that was equally wide. Gradually it seems that hole has lost between 1/3 and half of its original depth
The stone markings have quite a bit of moss onto them but it's hard for me to guess when a human hand pit them there...as there are various types of trees and vegetation that would facilitate the moss- accumulation but I don't kn.ow about that much.
Anyway, I estimated the cache is exactly 26 to 27 feet from the main markers ( 3 stones in a circle). There are other stone markets too.
Initially I thought it was 25 feet away. But later I realized it's EXACTLY 27 feet to center of markings and that comes to almost exactly 8 meters or 9 yards.....
That Realization also started me thinking that the reason it was not found so far ( I believe ) is because most younger generation USA born would be thinking number of feet and not meters?
Hence my question....
Last thought, I am not sure if the section of land where I think it is hidden was ever actually part of that farm....for there are only iron incredibly old fence leftovers and other mostly cast iron/ black steel type.of leftovers 20 or 30 yards from where the suspected spot is....

Ireland adopted the metric system in the 1970's
Germany however adopted it in 1872, compulsory.

Those are good observations though.
We Mericans often forget the world runs on a different measurement system.

Can you get old plot maps of the area? Like Sanborn maps?
I've always thought. If someone buries something, it will be in sight of them most of the time.
So, a houses master bedroom window should be in sight of the buried objects.

 

[Gene Mean]

I recall seeing a measurement in ¨chains¨ on old 1800s surveys. Used for longer 100+ foot distances maybe. Something to consider.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

Ireland adopted the metric system in the 1970's
Germany however adopted it in 1872, compulsory.

Those are good observations though.
We Mericans often forget the world runs on a different measurement system.

Can you get old plot maps of the area? Like Sanborn maps?
I've always thought. If someone buries something, it will be in sight of them most of the time.
So, a houses master bedroom window should be in sight of the buried objects.

That's an interesting Consideration about the people needing it to be viewable through one of their main windows.

Here is the thing. The parcel is right next to a dirt road. But that road. According to 1938 Aerial photos of Illinois is 1) Either not present in 1938 where it is today but Instead there Is another straight line that looks like a dirt road and that's is a certain distance away PLUS IN a slightly different direction as seen in the Aerial photo.
Or 2) Is difficult to judge by the Photo because it is old photography .

The farm with its other structures around it is Totally Intact in the 1938 Photo

The Spot is on the lower side of the slope. Below today's dirt road. My instinct tells me it was maybe their parents or Gradparents first acquisition

While the farm that is totally gone today, is on the Upper side of the road and a little sideways.
But THERE are in the young forest Concrete floor segments of foundations or just paved area what not THAT are still right there! But about 120 ards away!

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

I recall seeing a measurement in ¨chains¨ on old 1800s surveys. Used for longer 100+ foot distances maybe. Something to consider.
View attachment 2215912

That's interesting . Thank you!
I never knew about this

 

[achanceforgold]

That's interesting . Thank you!
I never knew about this

here is an old real estate map of land ownership from 1898.
Synder land map

I think it is for the area you are investigating.
if you know the area, or family, then it should be within their property boundaries.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

here is an old real estate map of land ownership from 1898.
Synder land map

I think it is for the area you are investigating.
if you know the area, or family, then it should be within their property boundaries.

Wow! That's very useful. Trying to locate it now as I don't see the contemporary roads names well or at all. But will find it soon on the map

 

[achanceforgold]

Wow! That's very useful. Trying to locate it now as I don't see the contemporary roads names well or at all. But will find it soon on the map

Yes, road names change over the years.
The street in front of my house use to be called Court House street.
I live at the old county Cout House.
The Road is now changed to Park Street, because they build a park.

 

[releventchair]

They may not have been tall people. Thy might have been tall people. I'd vote for not tall.

At 5 foot 10 inches on open (clear) ground a generous attempt at pacing can result in 3 foot paces.(36 inch per pace.)
3 paces then would =3 yards . (See the 3/3?).
9 paces would =....9 yards. (9/9).

A short person or hard time walking or deeper snow or real short legs or just a real short stride in pacing could be 2 foot per pace.

A European of recent arrival might still recall Roman paces.(?)
Romans must have had long legs!
[an ancient Roman unit of length that is equal to five Roman feet or 4.85 English feet and is measured in pacing from the heel of one foot to the heel of the same foot when it next touches the ground]

The reason I'm suggesting paces is it is a lot les obvious to observers than a tape measure or rope ect. and thier use.

Why not mark the X when done making the cache?
Hopefully just below ground enough to not be disturbed by horse feet ect..

 

[achanceforgold]

They may not have been tall people. Thy might have been tall people. I'd vote for not tall.

At 5 foot 10 inches on open (clear) ground a generous attempt at pacing can result in 3 foot paces.(36 inch per pace.)
3 paces then would =3 yards . (See the 3/3?).
9 paces would =....9 yards. (9/9).

A short person or hard time walking or deeper snow or real short legs or just a real short stride in pacing could be 2 foot per pace.

A European of recent arrival might still recall Roman paces.(?)
Romans must have had long legs!
[an ancient Roman unit of length that is equal to five Roman feet or 4.85 English feet and is measured in pacing from the heel of one foot to the heel of the same foot when it next touches the ground]

The reason I'm suggesting paces is it is a lot les obvious to observers than a tape measure or rope ect. and thier use.

Why not mark the X when done making the cache?
Hopefully just below ground enough to not be disturbed by horse feet ect..

paces are more likely.

Based on research. What I've read or been told.

a) Caches were buried, within sight of master bedroom window.
So if you heard something in the night you could look out and see if your money was getting stolen.

b) caches were usually buried 12 to 24 inches deep, 18 inches being the average.
So if you need to, you could dig up the money in a hurry.

c) Bottom of fence post were sometimes used to put caches in. Post holes were being dug anyways.

d) Animals, such as cows and horses were used to trample over the area.
Who's going to dig up the ground in a barn when the horse has shite all over it.

 

[releventchair]

paces are more likely.

Based on research. What I've read or been told.

a) Caches were buried, within sight of master bedroom window.
So if you heard something in the night you could look out and see if your money was getting stolen.

b) caches were usually buried 12 to 24 inches deep, 18 inches being the average.
So if you need to, you could dig up the money in a hurry.

c) Bottom of fence post were sometimes used to put caches in. Post holes were being dog anyways.

d) Animals, such as cows and horses were used to trample over the area.
Who's going to dig up the ground in a barn when the horse as shite all over it.

Corners.
Inside corners with dirt floors were more private.
Outside corners were locatable and when dug under , doubly covered whatever was secured.
Under/behind steps. Indoors and out.
Thresholds of doors. Under.

Roughly relating to O.P. ; paces from corner of a particular structure.
O.P. states from center of arranged stones/blocks . What direction?
For me(oh I've confused myself burying things even to the point of losing one) a line from a corner to another corner isn't so bad. Or a corner to multiple objects or directions.
If I left from an arranged grouping of objects X amount of distance and direction suited a near object I'd try it.

I've not seen carriage blocks in yards in real life. Despite living in at least two houses that had carriage shelters.
If I ever moved one (not likely to be happening ) I would sure want to detect under it.
Convenient to house (to pick up the lady of the house ; or let her out).
In site of house . Close sight.
No one should be frogging with it (moving it) except resident or servant.
Even playing kids should leave it alone. Should meaning; don't mess with a step set up.

Halfway between certain corner of the house and a certain corner of the carriage block?

and away we go! l.o.l.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

They may not have been tall people. Thy might have been tall people. I'd vote for not tall.

At 5 foot 10 inches on open (clear) ground a generous attempt at pacing can result in 3 foot paces.(36 inch per pace.)
3 paces then would =3 yards . (See the 3/3?).
9 paces would =....9 yards. (9/9).

A short person or hard time walking or deeper snow or real short legs or just a real short stride in pacing could be 2 foot per pace.

A European of recent arrival might still recall Roman paces.(?)
Romans must have had long legs!
[an ancient Roman unit of length that is equal to five Roman feet or 4.85 English feet and is measured in pacing from the heel of one foot to the heel of the same foot when it next touches the ground]

The reason I'm suggesting paces is it is a lot les obvious to observers than a tape measure or rope ect. and thier use.

Why not mark the X when done making the cache?
Hopefully just below ground enough to not be disturbed by horse feet ect..

I didn't understand your very last sentence about the marking the X.
About the horses feet, I did understand that one!
Thanks

 

[releventchair]

I didn't understand your very last sentence about the marking the X.
About the horses feet, I did understand that one!
Thanks

IF someone dug a hole and put a flat tin can or rock or whatever firm object that last ,longer than a pine board a few inches deep from the surface , above the cache then a probe would confirm the X/very spot to dig.
I used a pine board once. Mistake.
( My yard probe is an electrical ground rod. )
I used a board because that particular morning burying a deer skull for a Euro mount later I hit to large of roots to cut and hit too frozen ground. So multiple spots had been disturbed. I wanted the board to be a tell/confirmation when thumped with a probe. And to guard the bone of the skull.
Worse, I told the kid to set a nickle I provided on the right spot too.
I found the nickle months later when ready to dig it up. Nothing in the hole below it!
I even found a long prior spot I had buried a small about of debris.
Probed the heck out of the area. Never did find that skull.

i haven't lost anything buried under a corner. Yet. Harder to be detected too if it's metal.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

Corners.
Inside corners with dirt floors were more private.
Outside corners were locatable and when dug under , doubly covered whatever was secured.
Under/behind steps. Indoors and out.
Thresholds of doors. Under.

Roughly relating to O.P. ; paces from corner of a particular structure.
O.P. states from center of arranged stones/blocks . What direction?
For me(oh I've confused myself burying things even to the point of losing one) a line from a corner to another corner isn't so bad. Or a corner to multiple objects or directions.
If I left from an arranged grouping of objects X amount of distance and direction suited a near object I'd try it.

I've not seen carriage blocks in yards in real life. Despite living in at least two houses that had carriage shelters.
If I ever moved one (not likely to be happening ) I would sure want to detect under it.
Convenient to house (to pick up the lady of the house ; or let her out).
In site of house . Close sight.
No one should be frogging with it (moving it) except resident or servant.
Even playing kids should leave it alone. Should meaning; don't mess with a step set up.

Halfway between certain corner of the house and a certain corner of the carriage block?

and away we go! l.o.l.

Alright, I am starting- based on your beautiful inputs and that of the other members here - to make some conclusions.
- The farm that ( Another correction of mine here) is seen in the 1961 photo, most likely has nothing to do with that older looking parcel below today's dirt road.
- In 1938 Aerial photo, I was looking at a totally different neighboring farm.
The 1 in the vicinity of which is the SPOT is not even present in the 1938 Aerial photo. Wasn't built yet. So maximum 60 % guarantee, the buried thing is not theirs....
' But I noticed areas that are say 3 to 5 miles away in the 1938 and even in some later photos had some really old trees or Just old trees smudged, kind of murkily depicted ??
- The Epicenter/ spot that my pendulum is leading me to is exactly 9 yards / 8 meters to the East of the Markings. That's not 100 % direction orientation but by standing there and getting a "Vista" feel for how the parcel is geographically sitting on the Land, it is probably straight East.
The slope which is absolutely True that it is a slope but a Prairie type of slope is short maybe 100 yards long and is N-South. I am sure the Spot is 8 Meters East of the stones. Unless it is a very rare conglomeration of Earth plus man-made discarded stuff......
And on that 1898 map of the Estates i see that there used to be so many parcels around. Still haven't quite located the parcel on that map but I saw an area that's I know where it is and it is only within 2 miles.
These parcels- some quite small but some really big are Not the farms that can be seen on the 1938 photos.
I mean, in structure, they are not. The photos show farm structures as long as 40 yards and even 50 yards, and farm houses roughly 12 by 15 meters or even more in some of these cases.

So as banal as it may sound, I think this thing may be older than 1920s. Which is surprising me because my method is best suited for 1930s- to present insulative materials. I guess one never knows....

- Finally, I didn't notice- the 3 or 4 times I was- any stone or concrete or even Iron frames, rods, that may have been partake of old house steps or corners.
Just badically,Nothing except a couple of 20th century bottles, the usual Aluminium cans post 1962 or post 1967 if one prefers,
But I saw a couple quite rotten Wooden Fence poles with a little barbed wire still hanging Just didn't pay much attention to them ..... but THEY were all flat on the ground.....nothing standing...
Plus Several Basswood / linden.trees that 1 of them at least did have a lot of bloom!

And a narrow shallow ditch 20 or 30 yards away... with very old fence and maybe very few very old car chassis parts....and other iron wrinkled sheets, very rusty.



.

 

[releventchair]

Alright, I am starting- based on your beautiful inputs and that of the other members here - to make some conclusions.
- The farm that ( Another correction of mine here) is seen in the 1961 photo, most likely has nothing to do with that older looking parcel below today's dirt road.
- In 1938 Aerial photo, I was looking at a totally different neighboring farm.
The 1 in the vicinity of which is the SPOT is not even present in the 1938 Aerial photo. Wasn't built yet. So maximum 60 % guarantee, the buried thing is not theirs....
' But I noticed areas that are say 3 to 5 miles away in the 1938 and even in some later photos had some really old trees or Just old trees smudged, kind of murkily depicted ??
- The Epicenter/ spot that my pendulum is leading me to is exactly 9 yards / 8 meters to the East of the Markings. That's not 100 % direction orientation but by standing there and getting a "Vista" feel for how the parcel is geographically sitting on the Land, it is probably straight East.
And on that 1898 map of the Estates i see that there used to be so many parcels around. Still haven't quite located the parcel on that map but I saw an area that's I know where it is and it is only within 2 miles.
These parcels- some quite small but some really big are Not the farms that can be seen on the 1938 photos.
I mean, in structure, they are not. The photos show farm structures as long as 40 yards and even 50 yards, and farm houses roughly 12 by 15 meters or even more in some of these cases.

So as banal as it may sound, I think this thing may be older than 1920s. Which is surprising me because my method is best suited for 1930s- to present insulative materials. I guess one never knows....

- Finally, I didn't notice- the 3 or 4 times I was- any stone or concrete or even Iron frames, rods, that may have been partake of old house steps or corners.
Just badically,Nothing except a couple of 20th century bottles, the usual Aluminium cans post 1962 or post 1967 if one prefers,
But I saw a couple quite rotten Wooden Fence poles with a little barbed wire still hanging Just didn't pay much attention to them ..... but THEY were all flat on the ground.....nothing standing...
Plus Several Basswood / linden.trees that 1 of them at least did have a lot of bloom!

And a narrow shallow ditch 20 or 30 yards away... with very old fence and maybe very few very old car chassis parts....and other iron wrinkled sheets, very rusty.



.

Detected a site that had had a fire but repaired and lived in much longer.
Fire crew tossed stuff out the windows.
Former resident later encountered mentioned porcelain dolls were found with the stuff tossed into that former field area. . (Her and her sister shortly after the fire .)

Thing is there were lots of iron hits . Everywhere. I was suspecting coal clinkers broken and scattered as I'd encounter slag in most plugs cut/holes.

House was built atop the earlier former house of a blacksmith whos home had burned down ....
(2 homesteads stacked as far as aura.) With site prep in between scattering debris.
Signals!

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

I am familiar with deceptive signals coming from scattered immersed Bakelite pieces, and in early modern times like 1930s - 40s semi-synthetic rugs. They strongly Channel natural earth signals and they exhibit combinations of pendulum swings that are very deceptive ! So in my experience old rugs are more deceptive than color glass fragments. BUT when the old rug is spread out in an area greater than say 20 inches, you will be able to recognize the signal as quite different combinations ( plus you will see the rug size with your eyes eventually )
Even 16 inch long rug immersed in the ground is easy to eliminate as fake!
But the problem is when you have a tiny stripe of a rug say 5 inches by 3 inches in combination with colored glass underneath or sideways ( possibly from a newer or older era )
Also burned plastics that look like ground minerals at first site ( but are usually lighter by mass ) are very dangerous! Not when there are 5 or 6 in say a 3/4 square yard, but when it's just 1 or 2 or 3 very small in the same 3/4 yard area!
When they are in 1 or 2 very compact points very close to each other like 6 or 8 inches apart, may be even WORSE! More emphasized and convincing will be the signals for the operator standing say 2 Meyers away.....
But guess what! Their gold and MAYBE SILVER signals will be too long ,such as what I call 60 to 75 mm swings.
A cache on the other hand, will be producing more subdued signals for Au and Ag for example in the range of 40 to 50 mm Because of depth , what kind and thickness of insulation material they were placed into, and how big or many forest or other stones he covered them with.....

So theoretically, there are ways to discern Colored glass, barbed wire and the other things I enumerated.
1 or 2 pieces of short like 8 inch segments old leas and other gray Color metal rich barbed wires BY THEMSELVES say at 14 to 18 inches depth are probably some of the most difficult to discern.....
But more bunched together, to put it simply are in a way stealing / Absorbing away from EACH one's Antenna abilities to channel signals = this equals to a combination of Swings that will 70 % at least tell you IT IS NOT GOLD!
For old European - within Europe- scattered coins over say several square feet Area, My method would not be Valid! Would Not help me. I will be blind!