Ya'll remember when I said the future was in smaller mines?

[Mad Machinist]

Here ya go.

https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/rio-tinto-s-ceo-sees-a-smaller-nimbler-future-20191028-p53514

 

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[tamrock]

Well I guess if one has the kind of capital that RT has it be really easy to get a handful of small operations up and going, just to find out if it's feasible or not.

 

[Mad Machinist]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XA0SD

 

[Clay Diggins]

That's funny!

Rio Tinto owns part of the worlds largest gold mine ever, the Grasberg. Rio Tinto just starts mining the Resolution in Arizona to create the largest copper mine in the United States. Then tells the press they are moving on to smaller mines?

Heavy Irony

 

[tamrock]

Shorter building timeframes translates to quicker cash flows for shareholders. Makes sense to me.

 

[StreamlineGold]

Grasberg is dwindling in grades and increasing production costs

 

[Mad Machinist]

That's funny!

Rio Tinto owns part of the worlds largest gold mine ever, the Grasberg. Rio Tinto just starts mining the Resolution in Arizona to create the largest copper mine in the United States. Then tells the press they are moving on to smaller mines?

Heavy Irony

Rio Tinto sold there part of Grasberg to the Indonesian govt. And Resolution may or may not be decreased in size pending litigation.

 

[barrelroll]

Rio sold the Eagle Mine to Lundine a couple years ago. I'm wondering if they are regretting that decision since eagle had an expansion go through and there's talk of a lot more in the area.

The major I work for has a lot of "corporate dead weight" for lack of a better term in how they do business. I'm not sure if these smaller projects can support this dead weight without revisiting how the site is managed, how purchasing works, and some changes in the way it's staffed. This dead weight and red tape would be a really good way to turn a small profitable mine into a unprofitable mine in a hurry.

The articles don't mention how small of projects they are talking about either. Are we talking 5-50 person jack leg mines such as the revenue mine or several of the other mines in the San Jaun's, something like Lisbon Valley Copper which is I believe is a 60 employee open pit copper mine outside Moab UT, or one of the many 200-300 employee mines out there? Rio's access to capital, in house legal/ permitting/ environmental departments, buying power/ contractor relationships, exploration budget, and possibly existing infrastructure (mills)/ equipment could eliminate the issues most smaller operations face.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Rio sold the Eagle Mine to Lundine a couple years ago. I'm wondering if they are regretting that decision since eagle had an expansion go through and there's talk of a lot more in the area.

The major I work for has a lot of "corporate dead weight" for lack of a better term in how they do business. I'm not sure if these smaller projects can support this dead weight without revisiting how the site is managed, how purchasing works, and some changes in the way it's staffed. This dead weight and red tape would be a really good way to turn a small profitable mine into a unprofitable mine in a hurry.

The articles don't mention how small of projects they are talking about either. Are we talking 5-50 person jack leg mines such as the revenue mine or several of the other mines in the San Jaun's, something like Lisbon Valley Copper which is I believe is a 60 employee open pit copper mine outside Moab UT, or one of the many 200-300 employee mines out there? Rio's access to capital, in house legal/ permitting/ environmental departments, buying power/ contractor relationships, exploration budget, and possibly existing infrastructure (mills)/ equipment could eliminate the issues most smaller operations face.

Ideally, the majors would set up regional smelters and processing facilities in a geographical area. This would eliminate some problems as they have the capital to get through the permitting process. The smelter in Miami has been known to buy high grade ore from smaller operations so this is possible.

The biggest problem I see facing the mining industry in the future is rabid ecofreaks who think they can do no wrong. Might have to come under National Security for critical minerals amd exempt those mines from NEPA review as those minerals are critical to our society.

That sad part of this is many of those critical minerals were not needed back in the day and were thrown out on mine dumps. And now even to clean up those dumps for those minerals is being fought tooth and nail by idiots.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Little more on this. Even some of the big equipment manufacturers see this coming.

https://www.e-mj.com/features/niche-machines-for-narrow-vein-mining/

 

[Reed Lukens]

Looks good
Block Caving

 

[BlasterJ]

Since wages, workers comp, etc. are huge costs these days, small power equipment like this could make narrow vein mining profitable. If this goes on long enough, that equipment will become available at auctions and ads in Machinery Trader, and it might enable mom-and-pop hardrock mining profitably. Think about how most of the family farms in places like Wyoming hang on - they're small outfits that buy or rents high-tech equipment instead of a huge payroll they can't afford.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Since wages, workers comp, etc. are huge costs these days, small power equipment like this could make narrow vein mining profitable. If this goes on long enough, that equipment will become available at auctions and ads in Machinery Trader, and it might enable mom-and-pop hardrock mining profitably. Think about how most of the family farms in places like Wyoming hang on - they're small outfits that buy or rents high-tech equipment instead of a huge payroll they can't afford.

I'm digging into a few things in this. For haulage, take a serious look at some of the stuff Taylor Dunn builds. Wouldn't be very hard to put a dump bed on one of those flat beds and 36-48 volt linear actuators can easily lift a full dump bed. Those Taylor Dunn vehicles are available in 36 and 48 volt models. I need one here to look at to see if something can be done to increase carrying capacity. Afterall, they do use a cut down Ford 9 inch rear end amd with my knowledge and experience, I'm also betting I could make one 4 wheel drive if needed.

I also have an idea for a loader too. A Bobcat S70 is only like 4 feet wide, though I would have to see if enough batteries could be installed to keep it running for a full shift.

Did I ever mention that I have a very serious aversion to internal combustion engines underground? Lol!!!

 

[BlasterJ]

I'm digging into a few things in this. For haulage, take a serious look at some of the stuff Taylor Dunn builds. Wouldn't be very hard to put a dump bed on one of those flat beds and 36-48 volt linear actuators can easily lift a full dump bed. Those Taylor Dunn vehicles are available in 36 and 48 volt models. I need one here to look at to see if something can be done to increase carrying capacity. Afterall, they do use a cut down Ford 9 inch rear end amd with my knowledge and experience, I'm also betting I could make one 4 wheel drive if needed.

I also have an idea for a loader too. A Bobcat S70 is only like 4 feet wide, though I would have to see if enough batteries could be installed to keep it running for a full shift.

Did I ever mention that I have a very serious aversion to internal combustion engines underground? Lol!!!

I've got a friend whose business takes in electric vehicle batteries for reuse in industrial applications. You could get quite a few amp-hours into a small space by upgrading to Lithium. That Taylor-Dunn equipment looks interesting. I think I've seen them before at stadiums as maintenance trucks and mini-ambulances.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Ok everyone, the one you want to look at is the B2-48 model from Taylor Dunn. Very simple and brutally strong. It I'd available with a 4000 pound payload so you wouldn't be hauling just buckets out. They have a built in charger that runs off of 110 volt so that is the easy part.

They are commonly available in hood condition for $3-4k depending on location. They are only 57" wide at the front bumper so narrow veins shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Mudflap]

Still remembering seeing the Quincy #2 Mine hoist motor. Pulls on a 9260 foot shaft at 6225 feet deep. 2 1/2 miles of 1 5/8" cable! One serious mine lift.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Bobcat is working on bringing out an all electric version of the S70 and Sherpa currently makes an electric mini skid steer so things are starting to shape up quite nicely.

 

[Mad Machinist]

So here's a quick and easy idea.

Take one of Taylor Dunn B2-48's, throw a self dumping hopper on it, and boom instant underground haulage on the cheap.

Chevy Volt batteries go cheap and are lithium ion. After looking at a lot of pictures, I have no doubt additional batteries can be added to increase range with the added plus they will fully charge in two to three hours with the new chargers.

 

[BlasterJ]

So here's a quick and easy idea.

Take one of Taylor Dunn B2-48's, throw a self dumping hopper on it, and boom instant underground haulage on the cheap.

Chevy Volt batteries go cheap and are lithium ion. After looking at a lot of pictures, I have no doubt additional batteries can be added to increase range with the added plus they will fully charge in two to three hours with the new chargers.

There are also Nissan Leaf batteries and others. I have a friend that brokers batteries from scrapped EVs (a lot of these are running around as "experimental" cars that can't be sold since they're sort of prototypes). And there is a lot of info out there on how to set up battery management.

Can you post a picture or link to a self-dumping hopper attachment? I'm having trouble visualizing it.

 

[Mad Machinist]

There are also Nissan Leaf batteries and others. I have a friend that brokers batteries from scrapped EVs (a lot of these are running around as "experimental" cars that can't be sold since they're sort of prototypes). And there is a lot of info out there on how to set up battery management.

Can you post a picture or link to a self-dumping hopper attachment? I'm having trouble visualizing it.

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...0Nb-zFvLG1w_ykV-QIE8pXPZIYiUtHPhoCgSkQAvD_BwE