co monument

[Shortstack]

Moons:
Doesn't that second photo (above) kinda resemble a totem?

 

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[Springfield]

.... Springfield, am I correct in understanding that there was nothing similar nearby?

Rick

Other rocks in all directions (after all, it's New Mexico), but no outcroppings anywhere nearby large enough to produce a stone this size.

 

[HOOSIERau]

Happy 4th of July everybody !

May treasure find you !

 

[rangler]

steve,
I have found that shaped boulder twice before, very very similar, found near some old spanish mines...not to close but defiantly on the first makings of the trail south.
some research ended up with a person who also found one, and he checked the compass bearing...it pointed to mexico city...mine points to vera crux...I think that thoms new info might turn up the confirmation that this is the ultimate 'outward bound' marker... pointing to the main shipping point for all precious cargo...at the time period.

I did notice a "v" scratched on the near end..perhaps that V was to show both shipping points at a point in time when they used both of these points to ship from..
very curious at least...
rangler



roraima_plateau , so america

 

[Shortstack]

Desertmoons:
What do you think of this ?? The bottom guy has a large "X" and 2 "V"s on his jawline that I didn't tag, just in case the pix was pixalating on me. LOL

 

[mdog]

Springfield,

Seems like somebody else found some large column like stones in the west.

t It was in August, 1749, that Kalm held a conversation with M. de La Verendrye, which he records. His narrative is worthy of attention when the character of the expedition I have attempted to describe is considered. "They set out on horseback from Montreal and went as much due west as they could on account of the lakes, rivers and mountains which fell in their way. As they came far into the country beyond many nations they sometimes met with large tracts of land free from wood, but covered with a kind of very tall grass, for the space of some days' journey. Many of these fields were everywhere covered with furrows, as if they had been ploughed and sown formerly. It is to be observed that the nations which now inhabit North America could not cultivate the land in this manner, because they never made use of horses, oxen, ploughs, or any instruments of husbandry, nor had they ever seen a plough before the Europeans came to

them When they came far to the west, where to the best of their

knowledge, no Frenchman or European had ever been, they found in one place in the woods, and again on a large plain, great pillars of stone leaning upon each other. The pillars consisted of one single stone each, and the Frenchmen could not but suppose that they had been erected by human hands. Sometimes they have found such stones laid upon one another, and as it were, formed into a wall. In some of those places where they found such stones they could not find any other sorts of stones. They have not been able to discover any characters or writing upon any of these stones, though they have made a very careful search after them. At last, they met with a large stone like a pillar, and in it a smaller stone was fixed, which was covered on both sides with unknown characters. This stone, which was about a foot of French measure in length, and between four or five inches broad, they broke loose and carried to Canada with them, from whence it was sent to France to the secretary of state, the count of Maurepas. What became of it afterwards is unknown to them, but they think it is yet preserved in his collection. Several of the jesuits who have seen and handled this stone in Canada unanimously affirm that the letters on it are the same with those which in the books containing accounts of Tataria, are called Tatarian characters, and that on comparing both together, they found them perfectly alike. Notwithstanding the questions which the French on the south-sea expedition asked the people there concerning the time when and by whom those pillars were erected? what their traditions and sentiments concerning them were? who had wrote the characters? what was meant by them? what kind of letters they were? in what language they were written? and other circumstances ; yet they could never get the least explication, the Indians being as ignorant of all those things as the French themselves. All they could say was that these stones had been in those places since times immemorial. The places where the pillars stood were near nine hundred French miles westward of Montreal. The chief intention of this journey, viz., to come to the south-sea and to examine its distance from Canada, was never attained on this occasion. For the people sent out for that purpose were induced to take part in a war between some of the most distant Jntiian nations, in which some of the French were taken prisoners and the rest obliged to return. Among the last and most westerly Indians they were with, they heard that the South sea was but a few days' journey off; that they (the Indians) often traded with the Sfaniards on that coast, and sometimes likewise they went to Hudson's Bay to trade with the English. Some of these Indians had houses which were made of earth. Many nations had never seen any Frenchmen. They were commonly clad in skins, but many were quite naked." Kalm, III., pp. 123-128.

If you google Verendrye Stone , you will find some people believe there is a connection with the rune stone found in Kensington, Minnesota. Will not be proven though.

Rick

 

[desertmoons]

Here is another pillar..this one seems to be to be lightly reused, if at all, by more modern groups. It may be completely natural..expect a couple things caught my eye that make me wonder about it.

Based on the locations of the pillars, which i have not checked out personally, I suspect there may be more pillars bounding a rather big area. I "think' these are volcanic in nature. It is not meant for me to explore this area. I tried once and got the message. Still, it would be interesting to know if there are other pillars of this sort layed out in any sort of grid.

The first one ss, i am not sure what it is...i see the face/eye for sure. But to me the original artist work on it has been heavily defaced. Even if that is the characteristic Quetzcoatl style earbob it wears, it does not mean it is Aztec in origination.
These are pics I found out on the net.

 

[Shortstack]

Moons:
If you know exactly where this valley is located; check it out on Google Earth or bing maps. If it is in an area where bing maps has Bird's Eye View, you can look at them from about 200 ft. in the air. Since you got a negative message about that place, I wonder if there is a burial ground there; or worse yet, a battleground where many lives were lost and they don't want anyone messing around there.
According to what I've read, totems are carved with the most important person ON THE BOTTOM and decreasing ranks as you go up the pole. Yep, that previous photo that I marked looks like some idi0t disfigured it.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield,

Seems like somebody else found some large column like stones in the west.

t It was in August, 1749, that Kalm held a conversation with M. de La Verendrye, which he records. His narrative is worthy of attention when the character of the expedition I have attempted to describe is considered. ..... Kalm, III., pp. 123-128.

If you google Verendrye Stone , you will find some people believe there is a connection with the rune stone found in Kensington, Minnesota. Will not be proven though.

Rick

Great post, Rick. Yes, it's too bad the Verendrye Stone has not been located so that we could see what was engraved on it. The column that it was placed on has not been located either, to my knowledge. Its description, to me anyway, sounds as if it was some sort of naturally eroded hoodoo in an area that may have contained a number of similar structures. We see stuff like that all over the southwest of course, but the best guess from the Kalm narrative is that the area in question is somewhere on the open northern plains. Dakotas maybe. What a great 'boundary marker' this would be - an engraved stone placed at a permanent location (on top of a stone column) that could be, and apparently was, retrieved later. Of course, the experts have poo-poohed the whole thing as they have the Kensington Rune Stone (historians are a fiercely dogmatic group, you know).

 

[Shortstack]

For the record. There are TWO large "7"s, an "A", and a "V" with extended line from the apex or a "Y" with an elongated base.

 

[rangler]

not really, just more musings and background camo stuff, but the other graffiti-ites will be interested!!

 

[Shortstack]

Rangler's comment on another thread:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,404434.0.html
post #40

Thom,
here is your range marker, very interesting that I found a number 7 in white right on the face

of the ranger marker, now this does correspond to Kim co range marker...now I know it is only 2 examples but even one example only needs one more to confirm it...looks like for what ever reasons, the number 7 which in most cases in the field it means campground, so do you think that perhaps this is the closest know sign that might mean we are 'camping' ie permanently ok so this is the border of our range ... and that the number 7 used all by itself.. which is exactly what happened with your range marker site and kims range maker site...I have , and we have learned a new sign this day, thanks to you and kim..~! amazing to be able to chip away
at the remains of the code that has not been broken...
rangler

ps: I know kim had a tough time defending this cliff..I too pounced on any thing that was not known and correctly imaged to be the classic iconic symbols...with no other sign to give the 7 any context or confirmation, I got fooled as this was a new sign, or really a new use of an old sign..we know the campground solve that kenworthy gave us...but this a new use of the digit...carved all by its self...it does point to the heart....just like a gunsight, so the land over this ridge is the beginning of the claimed land. amazing.

and the way to recognize this meaning is that the 7 is a on a huge cliff face, in both cases...and again I must pay respects to thom for this very keen inside knowledge, confirmed by me with the discovery of the correlations of the two 7's.
another nice day in the neighborhood
rangler


Cheez, ragler. Don't you even communicate with YOURSELF anymore?? And exactly HOW have you confirmed any correlations of the two "7"s (now THREE "7"s)? Are you saying that your WORD is confirmation enough?

 

[Old Dog]

Quite often on a range marker there will be one 7, sometimes 2. if the monument was meant to be seen from more than one direction.
There will be other signs on the monument as well as markers for a permanent gathering place where the Spanish would wait out the lack of water in the drainage. When it rained and the drainage would fill up they would enter the range and head for the mine marked by the range marker, this one leads up Elk creek by Gunnisson. I have never seen Elk Creek dry so there may be a nice camp area near this one.

Much of the outbound trail is lost due to the area covered by Blue Mesa Reservoir. But the inbound trail seems to be for the most part intact.

 

[Shortstack]

Thanks, Old Dog, for that well reasoned explanation. I wonder if these two "7"s on Kim's monument point to the same area off to the left, well out of the photo. I guess that "A" is saying "proceed"??

 

[Pala Y Pico]

Hi thom,

Quite often on a range marker there will be one 7, sometimes 2. if the monument was meant to be seen from more than one direction.
There will be other signs on the monument as well as markers for a permanent gathering place where the Spanish would wait out the lack of water in the drainage. When it rained and the drainage would fill up they would enter the range and head for the mine marked by the range marker, this one leads up Elk creek by Gunnisson. I have never seen Elk Creek dry so there may be a nice camp area near this one.

Much of the outbound trail is lost due to the area covered by Blue Mesa Reservoir. But the inbound trail seems to be for the most part intact.

Hi Thom,

Why is there an inbound an a out bound trail?

Driving on I-70 and I-25 around denver during rush hour, I can see the logic. But it still makes me wish for an other setting. Anyway, using the same lane in and out get you in trouble quickly here.

 

[Old Dog]

Mario,
Once you have the Range Marker the next in line is the trailhead marker, or what rangler and Kenworthy called the master monument.
This monument shows as many as five separate trails. there will be as many as three or even four inbound trails.
One is for walkers or foot traffic
another will be for Animals such as mules, sheep, pigs etc.
the main royal trail is the most monumented and will be the only trail not used by the walkers and common folks, it is the ONLY trail used to move goods such as ore, gold or treasure from the mine. It isn't the easiest trail but it is the safest and most defendable.

This trail is marked by the smallest knob of the trailhead monument and goes in and out. There will be other trails used by peons, mestizos, and miners to come and go from the mine.
The trail out will be marked by full head and profile faces that are confirmed with a cross or a "V"
the other confirmation marks are found on most of the monuments and markers to prove they are Spanish in origin are ...
"A", "S" and "V"
These are words not just letters. The "V" is the most commonly used confirmation mark. It can be found in any position.

To answer your question about outbound trails... the face on the trailhead monument is always looking homeward bound.
Faces and crosses always lead you home.

Shortstack,
The point of the A (if both legs are the same length) points to the main trail and is the confirmation that it is Spanish.
The "A" is the word go, to or at in Spanish, it is used as exactly that in this case.

 

[rangler]

true trackers
The confirmation or at least the level of understanding to decipher a new use of a sign..is to examine - what is apparent...- two 7's on each on a very large 'terminal' cliff face.., the kind that geological happenstance ends a land form in a sudden drop off or shear zone...now see the correlation? - then add to that , that no other sign is apparent ... real signs I mean - graffiti as you know all too well does not count!!
[now here the true value of not reading graffiti is apparent, by ignoring graffiti, the realization that the 7 is posted on the cliff face by itself...[sometimes two 7's] and knowing that significance]
now in the absence of no other signs...a single sign standing alone always means or shows some significance...[in some cases it means 'reverse] here in this case the campground sign [7] is used, but the meaning is tweaked...to say...for instance, 'yea we are camping here all right...permanently!! so get over it we own this property behind this cliff face...the symbolism is that this cliff face represents a physical barrier to overcome, and is quite intimidating. Especially if you have stood at the base of one of these range markers...and looked up~!

The use of correct logic, with a background understanding of the code and the way it works...[ignoring graffiti]now these two examples of the new use of this sign is nice to see but I would want just one more example of of the 'lonely 7' range marker to confirm to my self and the world...

.... the reason that I discounted kims 7 was no other sign was around to confirm and give context to the meaning, and in the absence of that, the general rules for decoding say it is not to be considered real, when in doubt, throw it out...then when two 7's are found on two different cliff faces miles apart, now the 7 can only change meanings if the rules change, and here the rules now say if you find a 7 alone, and it is carved on a cliff face you now have the possibility of having the 'lonley 7' is a range marker...and a graffiti lover would never be able to decode its meaning, let alone being able to understand it even when explained in perfect sense, logic and syntax.

optical illusion

 

[rangler]

Thanks Thom...
"This trail is marked by the smallest knob of the trailhead monument and goes in and out. There will be other trails used by peons, mestizos, and miners to come and go from the mine.
The trail out will be marked by full head and profile faces that are confirmed with a cross or a "V"
the other confirmation marks are found on most of the monuments and markers to prove they are Spanish in origin are ...
"A", "S" and "V"
These are words not just letters. The "V" is the most commonly used confirmation mark. It can be found in any position.

To answer your question about outbound trails... the face on the trailhead monument is always looking homeward bound.
Faces and crosses always lead you home."

Excellent information for one and all newbies and pros alike,. ..'nother page in my field notebook..
rangler

 

[Old Dog]

A side note to your page...

The Royal trail is marked as present only by the smallest knob.
It is a hidden trail and will not show up easily as it isn't on the maps that show all other trails.
It is well monumented however and will (once found) will be easy to follow.

 

[Shortstack]

Thom:
On Kim's monument..............could the fact that there are TWO "7"s be the confirmation, showing that one is not a fluke?