Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War

[Texas Jay]

Yes, Hoss, you are correct. I have praised Bob Brewer's and Warren Getler's book "Rebel Gold" on many occasions in the past five years since it was where I first heard anything about the Knights of the Golden Circle. Since then, I have praised so many other books and criticized so many traditionalist propagandist books that I have lost count of the number of books I have read on the subject. I've also criticized those who claim there in nothing beneficial to be found in "Rebel Gold" because, while they claim to have read it, they clearly have not read the outstanding bibliography contained in it. I also get my treasure information "in the field" and my partner and I have spent untold hours there and many more hours trying to understand the story that is told in the symbols, tree signs, rock carvings and tree carvings that we have found. We have travelled many miles working on our sites but, without knowing about the KGC at all before reading Brewer's book, the symbols and carvings had me mystified for many decades after I first discovered some of them while exploring central Texas countryside. Understanding the story of the KGC in central Texas, or anywhere else, also requires one to be knowledgeable on local and Texas history. Those subjects have fascinated me since I was old enough to read. I read long ago that "treasure is where you find it" and some things are as precious or even more precious to me than any amount of silver or gold.
~Texas Jay

You still believe Brewers book the bees knees when it comes to the KGC...or have ya grown out of it yet?

SWR, I think your memory is as foggy as Alec's. I am pretty sure you have me mixed up with Texas Jay as he has praised the book on many occasions. I am pretty sure I never posted anything positive about Brewer's book. I think it is entertaining. I think there is a nugget here and there of valid information. It doesn't come anywhere close to equipping somone to find KGC treasure.

As for the Houk book. I've never really formed an opinion on it. However, coincidence or not, I used some information from it in part in finding 2 KGC sites. As Alec stated on the forums many years ago before he went to the dark side... You get nuggets of information here and there to form your own opinions. The vast majority of mine comes from the field.
Hoss

 

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[Hoss KGC]

I did say it was entertaining.

 

[Texas Jay]

Yes, Hoss, you sure did and it sure is...everytime I read it again.
~Texas Jay

 

[Hoss KGC]

Yep...that'll get the ole heart pumping

You don't find anything exciting in the book? Just seeing the carvings does it for me.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

I really enjoyed his interpretation of the "wolf" map. I found it very entertaining! I can also show how the Cerca Quince Cinco map doesn't go to "Wapanucka" as is claimed.

 

[alec]

Entertaining is definitely a word you could use for Brewer's book. I was laughing so hard in some spots I thought I was going to choke!

 

[Hoss KGC]

Entertaining is definitely a word you could use for Brewer's book. I was laughing so hard in some spots I thought I was going to choke!

Awe c'mon Alec. Back when that book came out you were arguing all over the forums for years for the same beliefs that Brewer has.
Hoss

 

[alec]

Not the completely same beliefs, I've never been followed by people in helicopters!

Geez Hoss, I've already admitted I was wrong (about the KGC). What more do you want?

Are you telling me that you believe Frank and Jesse were part of the KGC and JJ was the "comptroller" of the group?

 

[Texas Jay]

Alec, if you still haven't been buzzed by a helicopter, you are definitely hunting in the wrong places or don't get out often enough. Maybe you should read "Rebel Gold" again because you must have missed something.
~Texas Jay

 

[alec]

Believe me Texas, I didn't miss a thing. If anybody is buying into the way Brewer interpreted the so called "wolf" map then you don't know anything about maps. Brewer didn't even put a clean copy of the map in his book, he used one with a lot of extra lines and numbers on it and those weren't even drawn by him! Brewer doesn't even have a good copy of the copper map so there is a lot of detail in the map he doesn't even know about.

 

[Texas Jay]

Alec, will you please show me where I ever stated that I agreed with Bob Brewer about the "wolf map"? I never have and I have never said that I agree with everything Bob Brewer wrote in the book. What I have said is that "Rebel Gold' is a "must read" for anyone wanting to learn about the Knights of the Golden Circle and I stand by that endorsement 100%.
~Texas Jay

 

[alec]

Texas, I don't know that you ever have but you talk about the book like it's the bible of KGC treasures. There's better things to read than Brewer's book if you are interested in the KGC and especially if you want to find treasure.

 

[Texas Jay]

Would you care to name a few of those books, Alec? Apparently, they are not better than Brewer's book or else you would still be standing on your beliefs of only a few years ago. Have you read "The Spider Rock Treasure" by Steve Wilson?
~Texas Jay

 

[alec]

Just pick a book Jay, anything that has real history in it and doesn't talk about the mythical KGC depositories. Then you will change your mind too!!

Spider Rock Treasures? I have that book and have talked with Steve personally. Surely you're not going to say the Spider Rock treasures are KGC?? Although it is very likely that is where Howk got his idea to draw a KGC template, those treasures are purely Spanish.

 

[stevesno]

I can say that I have asked Mr Brewer for help....not really expecting any. But upon sending a few pictures my phone rang one day....It was Mr Brewer he very graciously answered questions that I had pertaining to my site. His book started me down the right path but it is very easily to get sidetracked and discouraged on the KGC trail....I have found a total of six empty holes....which ones actually held caches or were decoys "gotchas" as Mr Brewer calls them I don't know. But I do know that it took an enormous amount of time and manpower to plant all of these clues....I have even found a small metal clue painted red from the 1960's...hidden under a rock. Much like the tube of toothpaste he mentions in his book. I have found clues that were planted recently very recently....This year during deer season I was cutting a shooting lane and realized I was cutting down saplings that had recently been planted and preshaped to use as directionals! This was right next to a clue area that A stone carving led me to.

Now I cant say for certain that there was ever gold or silver hidden in these empty holes...But why would someone go through the trouble to plant such elaborate clues covering several square miles just to lead to an empty hole? One stone map I recovered showed a tunnel leading down to a large room...in this room was a yellow colored rock...and a white rock....This map was an interactive map...as I could pick up the rocks...as well as a carving of a terrain feature that led me 4 miles away...and an empty hole....

In my area reseach has led me to believe that there was a core of men who travelled with the Civilian Conservation Corps who helped lay down these clues....As I mentioned earlier, it took an army of men to lay all of these clues....New roads have been built recently which skirt the area that my map led me to... New clues were planted next to this new road! Only the Forest service would have permission to build these roads.

I am just passing on information that I have learned the last 10 months while spending every spare minute in the field...You can retain it for future use or scoff at it, no difference to me. This has been a great ride full of highs and lows. I look forward to the next ride which will have to wait until I get back from my tour of duty...Steve

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Steve. Thank you so much for posting about your experiences. Many of them echo my and my partner's own experiences here in Texas. Like he was with you, Bob Brewer has always kindly shared his knowledge and tips with me whenever I wrote to him. Others will scoff at you but, like you, I know the things you say are true as I've encountered them in my own field work. During and after the Civil War, the KGC had men in nearly every federal organization from the army, Congress, and judgeships down to the U.S. Geological Survey (est. 1879). Keep your eyes open for all unusual trees that have been grafted or misshapen to provide indicators. Most of them in our area are old oaks and mesquites. The tunnels you mention were built, in most cases, by KGC stonemasons and miners and they usually, but not always, lead to a depository. Some towns, like my hometown, have KGC tunnel networks laying under the downtown areas so that the Knights could go about their business without being seen by Federals. They are usually 15-20 feet below ground. The depositories usually have several similar tunnels leading into them. Be careful, though, as all but one of the depository tunnels are usually boobytrapped. One is known as the "safe entrance" which they used to retrieve or deposit their treasures after the depository was built.
Thank you for serving our country.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[stevesno]

Texas Jay...I dont know how to post a pic here on tnet....but If you want I can send you a couple of pics of a couple of clues that I have found (stone carvings)and you can post it here if you choose...I will see if you have an email address and send...Steve.....Just sent to your email

 

[fronjm05]

steve, have you locked down the skills to post pics on Tnet yet? haha. seriously would love to see some of your pics and see if you got anywhere cool with your trail. no specific details needed.

jojo

 

[L.C. BAKER]

From:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

***

While the KGC naysayers continue to rant and rave that the Knights of the Golden
Circle died "during the War", they never do provide a specific year or reputable
source to support this erroneous claim. Here is a newspaper article from August
3, 1864, that says "The numerical strength of this Order is said to be
considerably over half a million." This was in late 1864 so it sure doesn't
sound to me like a dying organization. The proven fact is that the KGC had
hundreds of thousands more members at the end of the War than it had at the
beginning.
~Jay~

***
From Richmond Daily Dispatch.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2006.05.1135%2\
53Aarticle%253D6

Additional from the North.
From Northern papers of the 30th we get some additional intelligence.
The Yankees are considerably befogged about the whereabouts of Early, though
they state positively that be has retired beyond Martinsburg.

General Hunter, who has been relieved at his own request from the command of the
army in the Valley, is carrying on a contemptible and cruel prosecution of the
citizens of Maryland. He has exiled the secession citizens of Frederick.--Messrs
Bingham and Norris, editors of the Frederick Citizen, have been sent South.

The St. Louis Democrat publishes a long account of the conspiracy for the
erection of a Northwestern confederacy, referred to a few days since. The
organization engaged in this conspiracy is known as the Order of American
Knights, and their object is to embarrass the Government in the conduct of the
war, and to overthrow the Government, if necessary, for the supremacy of the
Order. Its professions and purposes are different in different States. It
proclaims a war policy in New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and other Eastern
States, while in the West it is for peace.

The Democrat's account says:

` The Order is of Southern origin, being erected on the ruins of the Knights of
the Golden Circle. Of the Southern organization General Sterling Price is
Supreme Commander. C C Vallandigham, while in Richmond, was made the Supreme
Commander of the Northern section or Order. A conspiracy, it is said, was
entered into between him and the rebel authorities to divide the East from the
West, and to thus aid the Southern rebellion.

' Vallandigham's time in Canada, it is said, was principally spent in furthering
this scheme. He had a conference with some of the leading spirits in the North,
and soon after his arrival in Canada arranged for the establishment of an Order
throughout the loyal States. The names of all who visited him at the Clifton
House are known to the Government. Among them the names of several prominent
politicians are published. The results of the conference are also known to the
Government.

About the 1st of January Vallandigham issued an address to the members of the
Golden Circle in the loyal States, in which he called upon them to renew their
vows, and said the time was fast approaching which will test their sincerity;
that the prosecution of the war is in violation of the rights of the States, and
President Lincoln is a usurper.

A meeting of the grand commanders of the different States was held in New York
on the 22d of February for the purpose of organizing an outbreak on the 10th of
March, the day fixed for the draft, but no definite plan was resolved upon. The
names of these conspirators are also known. The same commanders had a general
consultation with the supreme commanders at Windsor, Canada, early in April.

Amongst those in attendance were McMasters, of New York, Charles L. Hunt, St.
Louis, and Lafayette Devlin, of Indiana.

The programme adopted at those meetings was, that Vallandigham should represent
his District of Ohio in the Democratic National Convention, and there proclaim
the doctrine of the Order, viz: Pronounce the existing Administration of the
Government a power usurped, which the people had a right to expel by force, if
necessary. In fact, to inaugurate a rebellion in the North, in which he was to
be supported by the Order. Each Grand Commander was to have an armed bodyguard
at the Convention for the defence of Vallandigham. This, it was thought, would
precipitate the people of the Free States into armed conflicts and would be the
signal for the members of the Order to unite against the lawful authorities,
kill or capture the civil and military authorities, seize the arsenals, arms
public property of all kinds, and proclaim the Government overthrown.

The numerical strength of this Order is said to be considerably over half a
million. One hundred and fifty thousand of the whole are organized in New York,
and are called McClellan Minute Men.

There is the most convincing evidence of the truthfulness of this statement. The
reason of the sudden return of Vallandigham to Ohio was the fear of being
defeated as a delegate to Chicago, and it was only by his presence that his
election was secured.

The Grand Commander of Missouri is Charles L. , a nephew of James H. Lucas, and
many years the Belgian Consul, and the Deputy Grand Commander, Charles E. Dunn,
a city officer of St. Louis.

A long list of the names of the members of the Order of the different states,
together with full information concerning the whole scheme, is in the hands of
the authorities at Washington, and will probably be given to the public in a
short time.

The statements are based upon very voluminous testimony, taken during several
months past by the Provost Marshal General of the Department of Missouri.

Mrs. Mary E. Sawyer, of Baltimore, for corresponding with the Confederates, has
been sentenced to be confined in the female prison at Fritchburg, Massachusetts,
during the war, and "to be employed in labor for the benefit of the Union
soldiers"

Johnson S. Palmer, a blockade runner, of Loudon county, Va., has been sentenced
to the Albany (N. Y.) penitentiary for the war for trading with the
Confederates.

Charles L. Weller. Ex-Postmaster of San Francisco, has been arrested and
imprisoned at Fort Alcatraz, on the charge of using treasonable language at a
meeting of a Copperhead Club. --Weller is chairman of the Democratic State
Central Committee.


The Daily Dispatch: August 3, 1864. Richmond Dispatch. 2 pages. by Cowardin &
Hammersley. Richmond. August 3, 1864. microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mi : Proquest. 1
microfilm reel ; 35 mm.
Institute of Museum and Library Services National Leadership Grant provided
support for entering this text.

***

Well said Jay! Now you can add the honorable Julius Sterling Morton and Sons and the financial empire that they created to the facts!

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I can say that I have asked Mr Brewer for help....not really expecting any. But upon sending a few pictures my phone rang one day....It was Mr Brewer he very graciously answered questions that I had pertaining to my site. His book started me down the right path but it is very easily to get sidetracked and discouraged on the KGC trail....I have found a total of six empty holes....which ones actually held caches or were decoys "gotchas" as Mr Brewer calls them I don't know. But I do know that it took an enormous amount of time and manpower to plant all of these clues....I have even found a small metal clue painted red from the 1960's...hidden under a rock. Much like the tube of toothpaste he mentions in his book. I have found clues that were planted recently very recently....This year during deer season I was cutting a shooting lane and realized I was cutting down saplings that had recently been planted and preshaped to use as directionals! This was right next to a clue area that A stone carving led me to.

Now I cant say for certain that there was ever gold or silver hidden in these empty holes...But why would someone go through the trouble to plant such elaborate clues covering several square miles just to lead to an empty hole? One stone map I recovered showed a tunnel leading down to a large room...in this room was a yellow colored rock...and a white rock....This map was an interactive map...as I could pick up the rocks...as well as a carving of a terrain feature that led me 4 miles away...and an empty hole....

In my area reseach has led me to believe that there was a core of men who travelled with the Civilian Conservation Corps who helped lay down these clues....As I mentioned earlier, it took an army of men to lay all of these clues....New roads have been built recently which skirt the area that my map led me to... New clues were planted next to this new road! Only the Forest service would have permission to build these roads.

I am just passing on information that I have learned the last 10 months while spending every spare minute in the field...You can retain it for future use or scoff at it, no difference to me. This has been a great ride full of highs and lows. I look forward to the next ride which will have to wait until I get back from my tour of duty...Steve

After reading Mr. brewers books I too was put on the right path. I have never spoke to him personally, but he has helped us more than he knows! It took many hours of R&I on our own to start deciphering clues and code, but the many helpful knowledgeable people including Stevesno on t-net have been a valuable source of information to help us hoe our own row.

Thanks, L.C. Baker