The find of a life time 1789 George Washington Inaugural Button & 1821 1/2 Real.

[Eagle 1]

HI all
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] Well I went out today with my friend Doug he a new sight to try. So we wen't out this past sunday morning. He had found some nice [/FONT]coin's last week there. So I was hopping to fine a real or a doubloon maybe

. Well I was hopping anyway. So it was a hell of a climb to the top of the hill. But we got there and start to hunt. The first hour did not find much but gun shells. It was a big field and wood's. Doug went in the wood's and I hit the field. My first good find was a large brass bar a good 2 ft long and 2 in. in diam. 10 lb. My next fine was what I thought was a large cent. Then I saw it was to thin it was a large button. At first it just seem to be a plain flat large button. I rubbed it to get off the mud off and then I saw a G. I told my self it can't be. So I rubbed it one more time and there was the W. I could not believe my eye's

. A 1789 George Washington Inaugural Button it is a rare one. I first yelled at Doug but he could not hear me. So I ran to him and told him he better be sitting down. I thought his eye's were going to come out of his head. It took him a min. to get the wards out. When he did he gave me a big congrat's . He also told me that I got the big suck award for the year with a smile. So I wen't back and started up again. Within 10 feet I pull out a 1821 1/2 real what a day. I also pulled out a small button pewter and a spoon also pewter.

 

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[silversweeper]

I'm sure we've all made cleaning mistakes at some point in time and were sick once we realized what we'd done. I know there are a couple of my earliest finds that I regret being so diligent about cleaning, unfortunately, but it's all part of the learning process when we're new. A real shame when the learning process involves a truly great and rare find but we all make mistakes. Live and learn. The button is an incredible find, especially for someone new to the hobby. I'd crap my pants if I'd find that in one of my plugs!

 

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[Silver Searcher]

Changing the opening post won't bring back the button it makes for slightly better reading

SS

 

[Eagle 1]

Some of you are misinformed about electrolysis. Or you just don't know what you are talking about. I am new here but I am not new to this MDing. I have been in this sport for 38 years now and I have been using electrolysis for the last 8 years now. I have done many test with it to see what it can & cannot do. Electrolysis is used everyday to clean coins from shipwrecks. What you see is not damage from the electrolysis. The damage is all ready there from being in a farm field for 200 years. With all the minerals and chemicals eating away at the coin's and Button's. This is where the pitting come's from not from the electrolysis. Electrolysis only cleans the item not pit's it. One of my test was to see how long a penny would last in a electrolysis tank before it would start pitting. I put the penny in up to a 1 hr.. I took it out think it was cooked by now. There was no petting to be found at all. It only turned the penny black and was E z to clean off. Most of you coin's and Button's will look the same if you can get that green crust off of it. Your coin and or buttons are rotting as we speak . Keeping them sealed in that green rust is not helping then it is hurting them. The problem with remove it is that by removing to will case you to loose all the info on the coin. The truth of the matter is that it is a catch 22. Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. And this idea that you can't touch a coin or a button being that you might lose the value of it is a fallacy. This only a ply's to non dug coin's and so on. Something you find in a safe or in a house. To be honest for the most part anything dug from the ground is worthless. It is only a keep sake it is not worth one red cent. Don't believe me take $40. of your money ans send it to numatic coin and have it graded. Here I will save you the $40. This is what they will tell you : Dear sir it is are policy that we do not grade dug coin's. They have been altered be the chemicals in the ground there for you coin has no monetary value. There for we do not grade them. This is not word for word but close. I get more money cleaning my coins and buttons then leaving them in a green state. So the button line is if I feel like I can get away with cleaning it with out damaging it I will it is my choice. Now my button is free from the on slot of the green decay. That pitting was already there before I cleaned it. It is just that you can't see it till you clean it. Last that photo is not a good shot of it. It is blown out do to the sun. It dose not look that bad it looks petty good. I will take a good shot of it and repost it.

 

[Iron Patch]

nice find - but by cleaning like that - you cut value way down
congrats on it and other finds

You can't say that for sure not having seen before pics. Even cleaned that button would get more than one that was 3/4 covered in hard ugly green crud because eye appeal does count, and and it's not like you would have the high rollers fighting for that type because it's not that rare and not a big money button to begin with. I'm definitely not defending it, but at the same time I won't attack it not knowing the whole story.

Here's an example of something that happened to me, and had I just posted the cleaned pic, I would have got the same type of comments... so let me tell you the rest of the story. It would have to be pushing 10 years ago now, but what I found was a Rev War brass Loyalist officer button. The thing looked like it had been exposed to a chemical or in a fire, and through the hard black crust there was only enough to just make an ID. (I didn't even know I had it until I got home and took a closer look) The fortunate part is that it was not my first, so my only goal was to try to improve it to sell, because at the time it was still a fairly rare button. (rarer than that GW) So I started cleaning it, used all my regular methods and nothing! I mean it was like firing paint balls at a concrete wall. This of course was not good news because even as a flyer the very most someone would pay for such condition would only be $40-$50, so I was determined I had to make it better. After a little more thinking it hit me! On this particular button the detail was sunk in and not raised, so if I could remove the surface chances are there would still be something to see. So I grabbed some pink misc. polish that was under the sink, don't even know what it was, but took to polishing that thing like crazy. It didn't take long to see some results so I kept going.....and going...and going ...and going. Finally after maybe 2 hours of hard labor I could read and see everything! Yes, it was right down to the brass, pretty ugly and polished, but at least now all the detail was clear and with some decent pics it would be ready to sell. I ended up getting $325 for it, which I know was far more than had I left it alone, but like I said if I posted just the after pics everyone would have assumed I ruined a $1,000 button. Plus it should also be mentioned it's his find and if that's how he prefers it, then who is anyone else to judge. Two of my friends polish their old silver coin finds, Ironhorse and I just shake our head at them, but we all laugh, and if that's what they like then more power to them. Lastly, why tarnish someone's great day, it's sort of like that Benghazi fiasco, leave the lessons and politics for another day... not that I meant this is a time of mourning! lol Left myself open on that one.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I can see this going a few pages and of topic......think I'll pass

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

I can see this going a few pages and of topic......think I'll pass

SS

Well someone had to grab his musket and stand with GW.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Well someone had to grab his musket and stand with GW.

You would have been better off ditching the musket, and given him some of your cleaning tips.

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

You would have been better off ditching the musket, and given him some of your cleaning tips.

SS

Well I gave my friends my silver cleaning tips and they still like the coins shiny!

 

[Silver Searcher]

Well I gave my friends my silver cleaning tips and they still like the coins shiny!

Yes but easy to put back on Silver, Copper's much harder.

Eagle1....sorry to go a bit off Topic, it's a Great find and what you do, like IP says is your right...Hope you get another from the site.

SS

 

[johnnyblaze]

You can't say that for sure not having seen before pics. Even cleaned that button would get more than one that was 3/4 covered in hard ugly green crud because eye appeal does count, and and it's not like you would have the high rollers fighting for that type because it's not that rare and not a big money button to begin with. I'm definitely not defending it, but at the same time I won't attack it not knowing the whole story.

Here's an example of something that happened to me, and had I just posted the cleaned pic, I would have got the same type of comments... so let me tell you the rest of the story. It would have to be pushing 10 years ago now, but what I found was a Rev War brass Loyalist officer button. The thing looked like it had been exposed to a chemical or in a fire, and through the hard black crust there was only enough to just make an ID. (I didn't even know I had it until I got home and took a closer look) The fortunate part is that it was not my first, so my only goal was to try to improve it to sell, because at the time it was still a fairly rare button. (rarer than that GW) So I started cleaning it, used all my regular methods and nothing! I mean it was like firing paint balls at a concrete wall. This of course was not good news because even as a flyer the very most someone would pay for such condition would only be $40-$50, so I was determined I had to make it better. After a little more thinking it hit me! On this particular button the detail was sunk in and not raised, so if I could remove the surface chances are there would still be something to see. So I grabbed some pink misc. polish that was under the sink, don't even know what it was, but took to polishing that thing like crazy. It didn't take long to see some results so I kept going.....and going...and going ...and going. Finally after maybe 2 hours of hard labor I could read and see everything! Yes, it was right down to the brass, pretty ugly and polished, but at least now all the detail was clear and with some decent pics it would be ready to sell. I ended up getting $325 for it, which I know was far more than had I left it alone, but like I said if I posted just the after pics everyone would have assumed I ruined a $1,000 button. Plus it should also be mentioned it's his find and if that's how he prefers it, then who is anyone else to judge. Two of my friends polish their old silver coin finds, Ironhorse and I just shake our head at them, but we all laugh, and if that's what they like then more power to them. Lastly, why tarnish someone's great day, it's sort of like that Benghazi fiasco, leave the lessons and politics for another day... not that I meant this is a time of mourning! lol Left myself open on that one.

IP im gonna have to DISAGREE with you....A collector would rather have it with all the crud on it and professionally clean or have it cleaned than a burnt waffle like this one!!!!
I will admit i have ruined some things cleaning them but nothing of this magnitude
Olive oil will clean copper coins good but have you ever used it on a button..
It turns them black!!!
This is a good example on someone doing something they had no clue about!!
You can grab his musket but its gonna misfire!!!

Blaze

 

[Iron Patch]

IP im gonna have to DISAGREE with you....A collector would rather have it with all the crud on it and professionally clean or have it cleaned than a burnt waffle like this one!!!!
I will admit i have ruined some things cleaning them but nothing of this magnitude
Olive oil will clean copper coins good but have you ever used it on a button..
It turns them black!!!
This is a good example on someone doing something they had no clue about!!
You can grab his musket but its gonna misfire!!!

Blaze

Nope, that is definitely nothing close to a rule. Did you not read my account of my own button? I am not guessing when I state the condition as dug and the value, and then what I sold it for after an extreme cleaning. So in your opinion I should have put it on ebay and told everyone to take my word for it because you can see a little bit of the inner beaded circle and two letters? If you think someone would have dropped over $300 for that, well I'll leave it at I disagree with you back.

I don't have a pic of that particular button, but do another from the same regiment that shows just a bit more detail. So in your opinion I would do better with this one as-is than I would if I cleaned it like the GW so you could read the letters? BTW... the other was completely black so didn't even have the green color going for it.


PS: You do know what it is right? LOL Who needs to clean them.

 

[jerseyben]

Nope, that is definitely nothing close to a rule. Did you not read my account of my own button? I am not guessing when I state the condition as dug and the value, and then what I sold it for after an extreme cleaning. So in your opinion I should have put it on ebay and told everyone to take my word for it because you can see a little bit of the inner beaded circle and two letters? If you think someone would have dropped over $300 for that, well I'll leave it at I disagree with you back.

I don't have a pic of that particular button, but do another from the same regiment that shows just a bit more detail. So in your opinion I would do better with this one as-is than I would if I cleaned it like the GW so you could read the letters? BTW... the other was completely black so didn't even have the green color going for it.


PS: You do know what it is right? LOL Who needs to clean them.

I think many would agree that cleaning a dug item can be very very tricky, especially when it is valuable. I think the problem here is that with most dug items, the ultimate goal is to improve eye appeal without doing further damage or harm to the item.

In the OP's case, he very well may have improved eye appeal compared to it's as-dug state, but using electrolysis seems extreme to me and many others who have already chimed in. I personally think it looks horrible and would rather have a green crusted disc any day over this pink, toasted button.

Again, I don't think the issue here is cleaning the button - it is how it was cleaned that is the problem.

 

[Eagle 1]

Thank you to all. You all have good point's. What some people don't know about electrolysis is that you do have to be real careful with electrolysis. It does a great job when done right. But it can pit and destroy a coin or button in a heart beat. You have to know your Medal's and thickness has a lot to do on how long to leave it in. I have a rule every 20 sec. take it out and look at it and I never go over 2 min.. Also the coin's of to day is not like the coin's back in the 1700. They a lot softer. I have some photo's of before and after cleaning a coin. I will post it so you can see what took place. Also I will take a better photo of that button. Today would be a good day no sun it is cloudy. Best day to take a photo. I use low Volt's and a combo of salt and lemon juice in water. The more you add the stronger it is. You can not do this with any coin or button. It is based on a case by case bases.O yes Do not try this at home. Some time's it is better to just leave it as is. If you clean off the green rust on a coin (copper) you could loose all the detail. I know 3 dealers in my state that use this and then sell them for more money then before. But yes eye appeal is # 1. Now see polishing is a no no to me. I would never do that now that is just to extreme. The closest thing will do some times is use baking soda and a little water and rub with my thumb's softly. After electrolysis or on silver coin's it give them a nice look.

 

[Eagle 1]

Here is new Photo's of Button.

 

[ticm]

Here is new Photo's of Button.

It's hurts my eyes as much as the first photo

 

[Iron Patch]

I think many would agree that cleaning a dug item can be very very tricky, especially when it is valuable. I think the problem here is that with most dug items, the ultimate goal is to improve eye appeal without doing further damage or harm to the item.

In the OP's case, he very well may have improved eye appeal compared to it's as-dug state, but using electrolysis seems extreme to me and many others who have already chimed in. I personally think it looks horrible and would rather have a green crusted disc any day over this pink, toasted button.

Again, I don't think the issue here is cleaning the button - it is how it was cleaned that is the problem.

You're exactly right, the idea is to improve the eye appeal without damaging the item anymore than it is. My whole point to this is you can't really criticize and be 100% sure you're right if you don't know the starting point of the relic. As I said in my little story if i had posted mine it I would have got the same reaction, and everyone would have been wrong in their assumption I made it worse... so it could be possible here to. Lastly, pitting always looks so much worse in pictures I bet it's better in person.

 

[Iron Patch]

Put it on ebay



Anyone with half a brain and some resources would know exactly where to sell them!!!!




Blaze

So you're definitely out.

 

[Iron Patch]

Put it on ebay

Who the heck would put a button of such History on ebay...

More mistakes and bad advice..

Anyone with half a brain and some resources would know exactly where to sell them!!!!

Looks like his musket misfired again and by now you would be dead


Blaze

So the not putting a historical button on ebay thing is not because it's historical, it's because a person should have the connections. I see.

I'll tell that to the buyers and sellers of the $20,000+ CW ones I seen sell, and more recently the $6,000 USA. who would ever sell a button there? LOL

 

[Iron Patch]

No but if you found one,which you never have....If you were any kind of history lover you would want to know where that button went..
We all know its not about the money or none of us would be doing this..But this piece of toast you keep sticking up for wouldnt fetch 100.00 bucks..
The only reason someone would buy this French Fry is for the Historical value..

You should leave Canada and come to the U.S.
They could use you in the White "Tan" House sticking up for all the wrong doing in this Country..

Blaze

So if it's all about the history and not the money, then why does it matter what the button looks like! Is a prettier button more historical? Keep talking Johnny, because when you do I don't need my musket, you shoot your own self in the foot!

 

[ticm]

So if it's all about the history and not the money, then why does it matter what the button looks like! Is a prettier button more historical? Keep talking Johnny, because when you do I don't need my musket, you shoot your own self in the foot!

Well it's not a pretty historical button now. Just historical. Odd that the guy never posted a before pic. I would have at least a dozen.