The Waltz Map

[Idahodutch]

Here is a copy of the Waltz map.
Here are some basics:
- I believe this map is 2 sections.
- The left 1/3 of this is an enlargement of the core area, shown on the right hand map section.
- the right hand map section, is more of a plot map, as far as I can tell.
- I suspect greatly, that Waltz made this map for himself….. so he would not have a hard time finding the exact spots of things again .… (something he mentioned to Rhiney)
- I also suspect that waltz gave and/or showed this map to Julia, during the talking and planing of the potential trip of Waltz leading them in, at least part way from the board house.
I think it was to be applied, once in the mine vicinity.
I think Waltz figured that if he could get them to the vicinity, then this map, along with his explanation of the map, would get Julia to the mine(s).

I believe 99.999% that this map is real.(but probably a duplicate of the original.)
Idahodutch

 

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[Idahodutch]

On the left side of the map paper, there are (2) places that the word “oro” are shown.
I believe these (2)spots, are where the (2) smaller caches were located.
We found what we believe to be the (2) cache spots, but did not find anything there.
The one spot left of the arrow, is just down canyon from the mine, in some rock bluffs.
Actually there is a face in those rock bluffs, that’s looking right at the mine.

On the right hand side in the rock bluffs, is the rock face that is looking at the mine. (Not to be confused with the rock man … located elsewhere)

 

[Idahodutch]

On the pointed end of that big horizontal arrow on the left side of the map paper, is a couple of squiggly lines and a dot in between the (2)squiggly lines, but almost touching the bottom squiggly line.

On the right hand of the map paper, in the core area, the squiggle lines are now represented by the small circle shown on the right side of the same arrow.

If we examin the squiggly lines again, looking at them as 2 things, the bottom one is very similar to a symbol used for a “cave” except that it’s turned almost upside down.

In reality, on site, there is, or was a shallow cave in that very spot. The remains of it are still there for anybody to investigate.

One thing though, that spot with the cave, is on the southern slopes of needle canyon, just like the mine that the face in rock bluffs is looking at.
The rock face in the bluffs is looking east..

A few yards to the east and north of the cave symbol squiggly line, is the 2nd squiggly line.
On the Waltz map, left side enlargement, the squiggly line is shown above the upside down cave symbol squiggly line.

That 2nd squiggly line in real life, is a section of drainage wash for that part of the ravine on the south slopes of needle canyon there.

In the shallow cave, that is slowly being reclaimed by nature, is still somewhat there, as it was breeched by rocks and water the last time I was there. Many of the rocks used for the little stone walls that made the 2 rooms, were washed out by the breech from behind.

Here again, I would rate this as a 99.999% chance, that that is what is left of Waltz’ hidden camp….. right exactly at that spot on the plot map.

The star, with a circle around it is the outcrop mine, with the cache buried atop the mine.

The lower part of the enlargement, below the star circle symbol, and to the lower right, has the letters “ms” with some arrows leading to the lower right as seen also on the plot map side.
The “ms” represents the mine shaft up above, way up high in that ravine.
Then it also has something that looks like this …. (X) except tin the map blow up, it shows the possible parentheses kind of squished into the “X”.
I think the “X” inside a parentheses represents the upper inclined shaft.

Here is an image looking down at an angle , at the very top of the ravine.

It is the mine at the top of the ravine, that I believe was the mine at the end of the monumented trail, that the Mexicans were working when Waltz and Weiser, 1st showed up.
It also is same mine that Waltz gave to Holmes, directing him to come back up above for further instruction; but Julia was go directly across from the hidden camp, to the outcrop mine, with the cache buried on top.

We have not opened up anything, in reality, until some gold is pulled out, this is really just theory.

I’m hoping to take this a little further, but I’ll do my best.

Oh I didn’t specifically show the outcrop mine, with the star inside of a circle, as shown on the waltz map enlargement.

The squiggly cursive capital “L”, is still there in real life but the star no longer looks like s star.
Sorry guys, that one is on me. I started going for it 🤗🥴
I went until could go no more 🥵🥵🥵
Barely made it back to camp. Barely made it back to the parking lot.
Now trying to get back, snd it may or may not happen. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The deposit and cache on top, is almost dead centered under the where star design is/was. Made of boulders/large rocks really.

There is the pile of rock burying the outcrop mine, with the cache on top.

 

[axer]

Idahodutch, I've been perplexed by this drawing for 23 years, I now think it is a hodge podge of notes mixed with tracings of flat gold nugget specimens taken from different locations at the shaft mine. I think he wanted them to know where the big gold was within the mine tunnel. Thanks for posting the waltz map again and getting me thinking about it, good luck with your future work.

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch, I've been perplexed by this drawing for 23 years, I now think it is a hodge podge of notes mixed with tracings of flat gold nugget specimens taken from different locations at the shaft mine. I think he wanted them to know where the big gold was within the mine tunnel. Thanks for posting the waltz map again and getting me thinking about it, good luck with your future work.

Axer,
You know, I was perplexed by the Waltz map when really took a look at about 4 years ago. And you say it has perplexed you for 23 years. So now you mock me.

Interesting conversation starter there Axer. I think I’ll pass 🤷🏼‍♂️
Good luck to you too.

 

[axer]

Idahodutch, it's admiration, never mocking, you learned in 4 years what it took me 23. The answer to the Waltz doodles.

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch, it's admiration, never mocking, you learned in 4 years what it took me 23. The answer to the Waltz doodles.

Axer,
You get a pass 😁
Now I’m confused about what you mean … about the answer to the waltz doodles?
Please enlighten 😎👍

Edit: I’m still perplexed by the Waltz Map sometimes.
Showing locations of the (2)smaller caches, when only Waltz could know,, so when did he make this map??
It would have been prior to retrieving the smaller caches that the map shows ?? 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[axer]

I do not understand what the black and white arrows mean unless they are symbolizing light and black rock, I believe some rich ore was from soft black rock and some was from light colored quartz, at the same outcrop area.

 

[axer]

Anyway, I believe all of the caches are now removed, the big one and last one was about 150 lbs and was taken out in 1942 by 15 apache men from the shaft mine.

 

[Idahodutch]

I do not understand what the black and white arrows mean unless they are symbolizing light and black rock, I believe some rich ore was from soft black rock and some was from light colored quartz, at the same outcrop area.

Axer,
The different color arrows are only on the plot map side. The same arrows, except on the enlarged side, are not colored.

I suspect it was only to make it easier to read at some later date.
The black arrows are the path from the lower outcrop mine, up and over to the inclined shaft, that’s way up high in the ravine.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the ores, but who knows. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Idahodutch]

Anyway, I believe all of the caches are now removed, the big one and last one was about 150 lbs and was taken out in 1942 by 15 apache men from the shaft mine.

Axer,
I never heard that.
Waltz and Weiser abandoned the upper inclined shaft, according to Julia. Waltz told her that he left the big cache (last cache) on top of the outcrop mine. The one that he first covered with crisscross logs and such.

Where or what are you referencing for this story of 12 Apache men?
It would be nice to have an actual conversation. One that doesn’t bounce all over.

Idahodutch

 

[axer]

Axer,
I never heard that.
Waltz and Weiser abandoned the upper inclined shaft, according to Julia. Waltz told her that he left the big cache (last cache) on top of the outcrop mine. The one that he first covered with crisscross logs and such.

Where or what are you referencing for this story of 12 Apache men?
It would be nice to have an actual conversation. One that doesn’t bounce all over.

Idahodutch

Idahodutch, I think I started believing that after researching Johnny Kochera. Anyway, it's all just guesswork until the weather permits.

 

[markmar]

Idahodutch, I think I started believing that after researching Johnny Kochera. Anyway, it's all just guesswork until the weather permits.

Axer, IMO the mine that Haywood told to Kochera was not the Waltz's mine ( outcrop mine ). Was another Mexican mine which had the same characteristics with the Waltz's mine, the tunnel below. There are more gold mines in the Superstitions than the LDMs. Many gold outcrops which the first Peraltas discovered, remained undigged.

 

[coazon de oro]

Here is a copy of the Waltz map.
Here are some basics:
- I believe this map is 2 sections.
- The left 1/3 of this is an enlargement of the core area, shown on the right hand map section.
- the right hand map section, is more of a plot map, as far as I can tell.
- I suspect greatly, that Waltz made this map for himself….. so he would not have a hard time finding the exact spots of things again .… (something he mentioned to Rhiney)
- I also suspect that waltz gave and/or showed this map to Julia, during the talking and planing of the potential trip of Waltz leading them in, at least part way from the board house.
I think it was to be applied, once in the mine vicinity.
I think Waltz figured that if he could get them to the vicinity, then this map, along with his explanation of the map, would get Julia to the mine(s).

I believe 99.999% that this map is real.(but probably a duplicate of the original.)
Idahodutch
View attachment 2105231

Howdy Idahodutch,

That symbol on the bottom right corner of the map, (what looks like a broken ceiling fan with three blades left), sure looks similar to what's in another picture. Go to the Superstition Mountain Legends, The "Peralta" Stone Maps ON Their Own, page 135, post 2,681, enlarge it and look at the top right corner.
Just thought it looks too similar not to mention.

 

[Idahodutch]

Howdy Idahodutch,

That symbol on the bottom right corner of the map, (what looks like a broken ceiling fan with three blades left), sure looks similar to what's in another picture. Go to the Superstition Mountain Legends, The "Peralta" Stone Maps ON Their Own, page 135, post 2,681, enlarge it and look at the top right corner.
Just thought it looks too similar not to mention.

Hello Homar,
I know the symbol you mean on the Waltz map. The broken ceiling fan, with only 3 blades 😁

Then that pic by Alan m, see below
I took a screen shot of it.

I’m looking at the upper right corner, but I think I need your help 🥺 looking for 3 blades right?

 

[coazon de oro]

Hello Homar,
I know the symbol you mean on the Waltz map. The broken ceiling fan, with only 3 blades 😁
View attachment 2105995
Then that pic by Alan m, see below
I took a screen shot of it.
View attachment 2105996
I’m looking at the upper right corner, but I think I need your help 🥺 looking for 3 blades right?

Between the very corner of the picture, and the brushy ravine.

 

[Idahodutch]

Axer,
You get a pass 😁
Now I’m confused about what you mean … about the answer to the waltz doodles?
Please enlighten 😎👍

Edit: I’m still perplexed by the Waltz Map sometimes.
Showing locations of the (2)smaller caches, when only Waltz could know,, so when did he make this map??
It would have been prior to retrieving the smaller caches that the map shows ?? 🤷🏼‍♂️

The origin of the waltz Map, or when it was made.
I believe the map is authentic. The information Matches up to things on site. But when did Waltz make it does not leave a lot of room that would make sense.
The only time all 3 caches were there, was after Waltz put them there.
….. and up to just prior to his retrieval of the 1st of the 2 smaller caches.

That leaves the 1st trip he made to retrieve one of the 2 smaller caches.
It would make sense that upon return to the site, Waltz would see how everything fared, including status of the buried mine….
The map shows where everything is located, and may have been Waltz’s answer to making sure he never has an issue finding the exact spot of his buried/covered mine, in the future.

It looks like, to me, that after relocating the precise spot, that Waltz must have made the (while all 3 caches were still there.) map.
Then when he was finished making the map, he then loaded up one of th caches, and left.

Who else could have known where all 3 caches were located?
Only the map maker.

Is that kind of how it went down? 🤷🏼‍♂️
I haven’t been able to come up with a different explanation, that really fits/makes sense.

It is odd that the Waltz Map just appeared, and nobody seems to know where it came from.
Somebody loaded a copy up to the internet initially …. Is that person still alive?
Was it part of the maps archives before the wide world web came to be, and just got loaded up with the rest of the maps? 🤷🏼‍♂️

in March, the plan is to go to the site, and finish up by getting samples …. Verification can then happen or not.
Provided that verification happens, then the Waltz Map, will have been proven to be accurate…. Still doesn’t say who had the map after Waltz 🥸
I believe this is the spot of the LDM, and if it is, then Weiser is probably down in the mine, just exactly like how it’s told in Bicknell’s article, from the SF Chronicle , Jan 1895.
The site matches up with that article as well as matching up with the directions from the Holmes manuscript, at least from the trail to San Carlos and on from there.
The clues that have been found, matched up to the wordings from those sources. Nothing needed to be altered, or said differently.
The 2 sets of directions, as well as the map, all come together in this spot.
I have been convinced, however … If I am wrong, I will say so.
Honest Injun 🤓👍
If I’m right, you may only hear …. Crickets 🤓
I think there is a very good chance that it will be crickets. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Idahodutch

 

[EDN]

Idahodutch,

Good luck with your upcoming hunt in March. Hope everything goes well!

EDN

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch,

Good luck with your upcoming hunt in March. Hope everything goes well!

EDN

Thank you EDN 🤓👍

So far the trip is a go. My health has improved greatly since all the work was done on my heart. Between all the work that was done, plus quitting tobacco (smoking cigarettes) close to a year ago, I feel considerably better. 👍
My blood pressure kept dropping as I healed up. The doctors removed blood pressure medication, from my daily intake and now they only have me on a mild blood thinner, and a pill to keep my heart beat within a range. I had an A-fib event, after everything else was done. I’m on just those 2 medications now. The cardiac rehabilitation program, that is available after getting your heart worked on, has been one of the best things for recovery.
Like going to the gym, except it’s at the hospital, and it all monitored.
it’s a 12 week program, designed to build strength and stamina.
Because of all the work that was done, I’m in the middle of the program, for the 2nd time.

The medication for limiting heart rate, to prevent A-Fib also gets in the way of exerting yourself, to a full sweat, and beyond. Busting through that barrier is hard, and exhausting 🥵🥵, but worth the efforts.

I too hope everything goes well 😁👍

There is a lot of quiet folk out there. I hope you all realize …. Nobody can claim anything in that wilderness area. …. but if this trip is a good one, then there is a place that is a good place to collect samples….. 😉 for us all….
If all you guys hear after all this …. Is crickets, then I suggest you all get samples and become crickets too.

We can compare favorite samples at rendezvous 👍🤓
If I’m wrong about it, then no harm, no foul. We’d just be where we started is all.

When I decided to join T-net and share my search, I didn’t know that I’d get to not just walk again, but also hike, camp out, bushwhack , and even maybe finish my search.
I hope we all end up with some fruits for our labors. 😉😎

Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

Like I wrote in another thread, the Waltz map is a Mexican ( Peralta ) map, which somehow came in the possession of Waltz.
The only question which should be answered, is if Waltz acquired this map from Ramon Peralta in Mexico or was taken from the Mexicans he shot in regards to take advantage over the mine.
IMHO, Waltz wouldn't been able to draw such a map and for sure he wouldn't been able to decode it.