Things For Further Research

[mdog]

He WAS & DID... AND! "Google" T. Jefferson/A. Burr Conflict. From the CLOUDY MIST OF TIME...

Thanks, Rebel. You've mentioned CLOUDY MIST OF TIME... before, is that a book or what?

 

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[mdog]

Ha ha. Don'cha just love coincidences? Did you know that Zebulon Pike, commissioned by Jefferson, explored not only the Colorado "treasure country" that you discussed in your posts #167 and 176, but also is credited for naming the Caballo Mountains in New Mexico - also the source of a treasure legend or two - when he was there in 1807?

View attachment 1268875

Thanks, Sdcfia. I had never heard of the Pike and Caballo Mountains connection, but it is interesting. And caballo means horse in Spanish? Wonder how he came up with that.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Thanks, Rebel. You've mentioned CLOUDY MIST OF TIME... before, is that a book or what?

Nah, NOT a book... just a "saying" I made up, to indicate a "CLOUDY" bit of "Americana"... you HAVE given me the idea of writing one... BUT! Too DANG lazy at my age... LOL! If YOU wanna... GA! (Go ahead). HH! Good Luck!

 

[sdcfia]

Thanks, Sdcfia. I had never heard of the Pike and Caballo Mountains connection, but it is interesting. And caballo means horse in Spanish? Wonder how he came up with that.

This is a generally accepted version, good as any I guess. "Horse" is a word used in a heckuva lot of place names all over the place.

 

[mdog]

Here's something I noticed while reading about Zebulon Pike. In 1806, General James Wilkinson sent Pike on an exploration expedition to the southwest. General Wilkinson was the military commander of the western territory of the United States and Pike's mentor. While Pike explored southern Colorado, he built a fort right in the middle of a cluster of treasure legend sites and was less than 50 miles from any of them, including Treasure Mountain, where a group of Frenchmen mined gold during the 1790's, Sdcfia posted a link about this treasure in post 172. Anyway, General Wilkinson spent a lot of time in St. Louis, after the United States took over Louisiana, so he might have heard of this mining expedition from some of the prominent French merchants in St. Louis. Not only was Wilkinson a big shot general in the American army, he was a spy for the Spanish and him and Aaron Burr conspired to create their own country west of the Mississippi and on down into Mexico. They would have needed money for such an ambitious goal. He also might have been able to gather intelligence about the French mining expedition from the Spanish. It kind of makes a guy wonder if Pike was trying to track the French expedition and do a little treasure hunting for General Wilkinson.

Since I posted this, I've done some research into the Treasure Mountain legend that Sdcfia posted earlier. Here's his link.

Treasure in the San Luis Valley: The golden horde, part II

I found an article about this legend that led me to order a book titled Citadel Mountain by Maynard Cornett Adams. Mr. Adams researched this legend for many years and wrote his book, in novel form.

In the book's prologue, the author writes of a Spanish expedition to explore the Louisiana Territory. The expedition was led by a Frenchman, Captain Louis Villemont, who left St. Louis in 1795 and explored the upper Mississippi River to the Minnesota River. He eventually made his way to the Platte River and into the Colorado Rockies. He travelled south to Santa Fe and then through Texas and Louisiana to finish his journey at New Orleans. While in Colorado, he found gold in the upper Arkansas River.

In 1799, Villemont organized a "surveying expedition" that was actually an attempt to locate and mine gold in the Colorado Rockies. This was the expedition described in the Treasure Mountain legend, the Lebreau Expedition.

In his book, Maynard Adams shows three maps that describe the routes followed by the Villemont and Lebreau Expeditions. In an attempt to explore the possibility that Zebulon Pike was searching for the Treasure Mountain gold, I copied information from Mr. Adams book, onto a map of the Pike Expedition. Here's what I came up with.

 

[mdog]

The Lebreau Expedition consisted of 350-400 Frenchmen from Louisiana and Canada. They were divided into two groups. One group began the expedition in St. Louis and followed the Osage and Neosha Rivers south to the Canadian River where they continued west to meet the second party south of the Raton Pass. The second group began the expedition in New Orleans and followed the Red River to their rendezvous with the first group. In Colorado, they followed the Conejos River to the area around Treasure Mountain. After the battle with the Indians, Mr. Adams shows the French fleeing north to the Arkansas River and then going east

It looks to me like Pike might have been backtracking the Lebreau Expedition and was heading toward Treasure Mountain along the Conejos River when he was arrested by the Spanish.

 

[sdcfia]

Since I posted this, I've done some research into the Treasure Mountain legend that Sdcfia posted earlier. Here's his link.

Treasure in the San Luis Valley: The golden horde, part II

I found an article about this legend that led me to order a book titled Citadel Mountain by Maynard Cornett Adams. Mr. Adams researched this legend for many years and wrote his book, in novel form.

In the book's prologue, the author writes of a Spanish expedition to explore the Louisiana Territory. The expedition was led by a Frenchman, Captain Louis Villemont, who left St. Louis in 1795 and explored the upper Mississippi River to the Minnesota River. He eventually made his way to the Platte River and into the Colorado Rockies. He travelled south to Santa Fe and then through Texas and Louisiana to finish his journey at New Orleans. While in Colorado, he found gold in the upper Arkansas River.

In 1799, Villemont organized a "surveying expedition" that was actually an attempt to locate and mine gold in the Colorado Rockies. This was the expedition described in the Treasure Mountain legend, the Lebreau Expedition.

In his book, Maynard Adams shows three maps that describe the routes followed by the Villemont and Lebreau Expeditions. In an attempt to explore the possibility that Zebulon Pike was searching for the Treasure Mountain gold, I copied information from Mr. Adams book, onto a map of the Pike Expedition. Here's what I came up with.

View attachment 1274590

I see that this book is one in a series of three books on the Citadel Mountain history, each covering a different time period. They sound very interesting for sure. The Lebreau expedition sure sounds intriguing. The Purgatoire River route he took puts him in the midst of a lot of treasure legends. The French in this part of CO needs to be looked at closely. I've got a few books on the early trappers in this area - I think I'll see if there's any mention of these explorers. Another thing that grabbed my attention was the author's name - Adams. It's a name we hear over and over again in the treasure legends. Maybe just a coincidence?

 

[mdog]

I see that this book is one in a series of three books on the Citadel Mountain history, each covering a different time period. They sound very interesting for sure. The Lebreau expedition sure sounds intriguing. The Purgatoire River route he took puts him in the midst of a lot of treasure legends. The French in this part of CO needs to be looked at closely. I've got a few books on the early trappers in this area - I think I'll see if there's any mention of these explorers. Another thing that grabbed my attention was the author's name - Adams. It's a name we hear over and over again in the treasure legends. Maybe just a coincidence?

I still have a hundred pages to read in the first book, but it's a real interesting subject so I ordered the second book. I haven't had any luck finding the third book, yet. The author, Maynard Adams, has a lot of notes, for each chapter, that are very helpful when trying to figure out locations he describes in the book.

The book was an unexpected help in some of my local research. For years, I've been searching for evidence of 18th century exploration on the west side of the upper Mississippi River. I found a map drawn by Anthony Nau, after the Pike Expedition to the upper Mississippi, using notes made by Pike. On his map, he shows a trail on the west side of the Mississippi that he describes as a road used by Indians and traders. The trail started at the Des Moines River rapids and went up to Prairie du Chien in Wisconsin. I've read the notes from Pike's Expedition but it seems that he stayed pretty close to the river so it wasn't likely that he mapped the trail. It had to have been done earlier than his expedition but I couldn't find who might have mapped it. One of the maps, in Citadel Mountain, shows the route that Captain Villemont took as he explored the upper Mississippi and it seems to follow the same track as what is shown on Nau's map.

I was going to try to get in touch with Mr. Adams, so I could question him about his research, but, as I was looking for information, I found his obituary from last year. He left a list of acknowledgments in the back of his book, so maybe I can get in touch with somebody who helped him.

The Treasure Mountain story is interesting to me, not only because of the French involvement, but because of the possibility that General James Wilkinson and Zebulon Pike might have been involved in a search for the gold. Mr. Adams also mentioned the Chouteau family in his book, as St. Louis traders. I have a couple of books about the Chouteau traders and the family has an interesting history, a very important family in our nations history.

Here's an article by a man named Johnny Walker who I would like to get in touch with.

Treasure Mountain and the Lost Spanish Gold that was actually French

This excerpt from his story is of interest to me because I would like to know more about the markings on the bearing trees.

"Maynard wrote a book called Treasure Mountain, in his book this story is laid out in magnificent detail. He too has looked for many years trying to find the artifacts associated with the story. One day he brought to work some pictures of trees with a blaze cut into them. Several years prior to that project I worked as a surveyor for a man who was nearly 80 years old. He explained the use of bearing trees to me and told me a long time ago there were two types of markings used. One had stemmed from French Masonry and the other from English masons. the French masons had used a classic marking that I recognized.

I told Maynard how to interpret the signs and Maynard the next summer went right to the origional French campsite. There he found the stone corrall they kept their horses and mules in, a stone hearth and the smelter they refined the gold in. Last I knew he still hadn't found the gold but several artifacts did surface. Coins, buttons and belt buckles that sort of thing."

 

[sdcfia]

I still have a hundred pages to read in the first book, but it's a real interesting subject so I ordered the second book. I haven't had any luck finding the third book, yet.

BookFinder.com: Search Results (Matching Titles)

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Think the Z. Pike Expedition DID find GOLD... MAY be "source" of BEALE TREASURE "story"... dunno.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Those guys seem to show up everywhere important! LOL!
Lewis and Clark Missouri River Basin Visitors Center

 

[mdog]

BookFinder.com: Search Results (Matching Titles)

Thank you very much.

 

[mdog]

Think the Z. Pike Expedition DID find GOLD... MAY be "source" of BEALE TREASURE "story"... dunno.

I remember a little bit about you and ECS talking about Pike meeting a guy named Purcell(?) while in Santa Fe. From what I remember, Purcell had found gold in Colorado somewhere on the Platte. It doesn't surprise me that somebody might be looking for a link between the two stories. I know very little about the Beale legend but I know there is a lot of discussion about it on Tnet. I'd be interested in reading about any possible connection.

I finished the first Citadel Mountain book and I'm looking forward to reading the other two. If any of you Tnet members know whether or not Maynard Adams left his research about Citadel Mountain to some library or museum, please post or PM me and let me know where they are.

 

[mdog]

Those guys seem to show up everywhere important! LOL!
Lewis and Clark Missouri River Basin Visitors Center

If you're talking about the Chouteau family, yes, they were involved in many different things. I can imagine you have run across that name quite a bit.

 

[mdog]

Think the Z. Pike Expedition DID find GOLD... MAY be "source" of BEALE TREASURE "story"... dunno.

Hey Rebel, do you remember where Pike found gold on his expedition? In Mr. Adams' book, Villemont found gold on the Arkansas River somewhere around Buena Vista. The Lebreau Expedition had several mining camps and shipped their gold to their camp close to Citadel (Treasure) Mountain where it was hidden on the mountain before the expedition was attacked by Indians. Mr. Adams book is a fiction novel based on historic research and in it the French never tried to take the gold with them after they were attacked, they left it cached and broke contact to the north and the Arkansas River. Very few made it to the Arkansas and eventually only two survived. One was Lebreau and the other was Leblanc, who lost his mind during the ordeal and later died in St. Louis.

 

[ECS]

I remember a little bit about you and ECS talking about Pike meeting a guy named Purcell(?) while in Santa Fe. From what I remember, Purcell had found gold in Colorado somewhere on the Platte...

From "KIT CARSON DAYS (1809-1868)" by Col Christopher Carson c1914 A C McClurg & Co, Chicago:
"The southwest spelled Sante Fe that far Mexican metropolis of the Spanish settlements Pike had reported upon it; in 1806 he had found there one James Purcell(Pursley) an American from Kentucky alreadt domiciled".
In 1795, Capt Louis Villemont on a Mission of the Court of Spain, discovered gold in a stream in what is today's Fairplay, Colorado.
In 1816, Auguste Chouteau, Manuel Lisa, Sylvestre Labadie, Moses Austin, Rufus Easton (Territorial Judge appointed by Thomas Jefferson), and J B C Lucas (longtime friend of Benjamin Franklin and had connection to Thomas Jefferson) formed THE BANK OF ST LOUIS, which accepted furs as collateral for loans to outfit expeditions and fur trappers.
Capt George Hancock Kennerly, related to James Beverly Risqué who had a duel with Thomas Beale in Fincastle, Virginia over Risque' niece, Julia Hancock, did business with this bank after starting a mercantile business in St Louis, 1817.
Julia Hancock stayed with her Kennerly uncles in St Louis before marrying William Clark, of Lewis & Clark.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Those guys seem to show up everywhere important! LOL!
Lewis and Clark Missouri River Basin Visitors Center

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson "knew"...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

From "KIT CARSON DAYS (1809-1868)" by Col Christopher Carson c1914 A C McClurg & Co, Chicago:
"The southwest spelled Sante Fe that far Mexican metropolis of the Spanish settlements Pike had reported upon it; in 1806 he had found there one James Purcell(Pursley) an American from Kentucky alreadt domiciled".
In 1795, Capt Louis Villemont on a Mission of the Court of Spain, discovered gold in a stream in what is today's Fairplay, Colorado.
In 1816, Auguste Chouteau, Manuel Lisa, Sylvestre Labadie, Moses Austin, Rufus Easton (Territorial Judge appointed by Thomas Jefferson), and J B C Lucas (longtime friend of Benjamin Franklin and had connection to Thomas Jefferson) formed THE BANK OF ST LOUIS, which accepted furs as collateral for loans to outfit expeditions and fur trappers.
Capt George Hancock Kennerly, related to James Beverly Risqué who had a duel with Thomas Beale in Fincastle, Virginia over Risque' niece, Julia Hancock, did business with this bank after starting a mercantile business in St Louis, 1817.
Julia Hancock stayed with her Kennerly uncles in St Louis before marrying William Clark, of Lewis & Clark.

ALL very true...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I remember a little bit about you and ECS talking about Pike meeting a guy named Purcell(?) while in Santa Fe. From what I remember, Purcell had found gold in Colorado somewhere on the Platte. It doesn't surprise me that somebody might be looking for a link between the two stories. I know very little about the Beale legend but I know there is a lot of discussion about it on Tnet. I'd be interested in reading about any possible connection.

I finished the first Citadel Mountain book and I'm looking forward to reading the other two. If any of you Tnet members know whether or not Maynard Adams left his research about Citadel Mountain to some library or museum, please post or PM me and let me know where they are.

That was ECS & franklin; franklin wrote a booklet about PIKE'S PEAK EXPEDITION... VERY GOOD!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hey Rebel, do you remember where Pike found gold on his expedition? In Mr. Adams' book, Villemont found gold on the Arkansas River somewhere around Buena Vista. The Lebreau Expedition had several mining camps and shipped their gold to their camp close to Citadel (Treasure) Mountain where it was hidden on the mountain before the expedition was attacked by Indians. Mr. Adams book is a fiction novel based on historic research and in it the French never tried to take the gold with them after they were attacked, they left it cached and broke contact to the north and the Arkansas River. Very few made it to the Arkansas and eventually only two survived. One was Lebreau and the other was Leblanc, who lost his mind during the ordeal and later died in St. Louis.

franklin knows more than I... he currently has "puter" problems.