Can BLM do this

[Bodfish Mike]

This pertains to Mining in Keyesville CA
Keyesville: Recreational Mining
Here's what BLM is proposing to do.
here is the Quote from them.

"Permits will be required for recreational prospecting taking place outside mining claims in order to make sure prospectors understand the laws and only work in specified recreational mining areas. Those owning mining claims will need to provide fifteen day notice to the BLM prior to mining on private claims in Keyesville."

Well I'm ok with the permit on the recreational mining areas and think they can do that but the fifteen day notice to the BLM prior to mining on private claims I have a problem with. Note there is a GPAA Claim Involved here and other private claims plus some un-claimed areas.
So do you think BLM can inpose this on us casual use Miners.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

I have a feeling that it' not going to fly.. Why? It would be causing a restriction on a miner using and or accessing their claim which is against the laws as they stand. Our claim is our "Permit". This could be challenged in court very easily and any judge that has any knowledge of mining laws should slap them down. Heck.... Even a county sheriff could tell them to take a hike because their rule can't be enforced legally.

 

[ratled]

USFS couldn't on the Yuba so they came up with the camping permit.

ratled

 

[Underburden]

Notice the key word "Recreational". No such word in the 1872 law. Show them your bare buttocks and tell em to KISS THIS.

 

[winners58]

if this is for mining claims this needs to be challenged or it could end up like the Karuk case that involved NOI with the FS,
next thing you know the environmentalist sue that a notice would require consultations, NEPA requirements.

do not file a NOI

all i see is old information on the link. I dont see a link to a recreational permit,
some BLM areas in the past (1980's & 1990's) would require a permit to dredge, this could be old info. (page Last updated: 07-20-2011)

 

[Asmbandits]

Sounds like they want a heads up so they can come snoop around while someone is there. Much more cost effective for them to know someone will be there to potentially fine or harass.. What other prupous would it serve? Ridiculous...

 

[Hefty1]

Prospecting is Prospecting.....there isn't anything "recreational" about it. Tell them to shove their permit up their recreational hole!

 

[Hefty1]

That page is old.....but still is full of BS.

 

[Hefty1]

What the heck are they saying here?


Recreational Mining
In order to control illegal occupancy of mining claims within the Keyesville area, on March 19, 1968, the BLM withdrew several hundred acres of land in the Keyesville area from the mining law. Four hundred acres remain withdrawn from the mining law, and is managed for recreational mining. Recreational gold mining on lands withdrawn from mineral entry is not a mining activity--it is a privilege. Be aware that panning and sluicing can adversely impact water quality, vegetation, fish, wildlife, and ultimately people. During the process of separating gold from the sand and gravel, silt may be washed into streams, creating turbid water. Fish and aquatic insects have difficulty surviving in heavily silted water because of its reduced oxygen supply.

 

[Hefty1]

Panning, dredging, sluicing, and dry washing are allowed. All activities are subject to any other applicable Federal, State, or County laws or regulations. Other rules which apply include:

• Camp fires require a current fire permit. Camping is permitted up to 14 days within any 30 day period and up 28 days in a year.
• Only hand tools may be used, motorized equipment including pumps (except dredges), chain saws and mechanized earth moving equipment (backhoes, bulldozers) are prohibited.
• Dredges working Hogeye Gulch must have an intake nozzle diameter of 3 inches or less.
• When working in the Kern River, dredges must be at least 100 feet apart. Cables may not cross the river, and must not create hazards for boaters.
• Water may not be pumped from water courses for any purpose.
• High banking, hydraulic mining and ground sluicing are not permitted.
• Sluices / riffle boxes / dry washers must have collecting surfaces of no greater than 6 square feet.
• Explosives, mercury or other hazardous chemicals may not be used.
• Vegetation may not be disturbed.
• Any subsurface archeaolgical, historical, or paleontological remains discovered during mining activies must be left intact; all work in the area should stop and the Bakersfield Field Office Manager should be notified immediately. Resumption of work may be allowed upon clearance by the Field Office Manager.

Im totally confused.....

 

[chlsbrns]

So no one who replied except hefty clicked the link and read the page? Amazing!

The text quoted in the first post isn't on the page. Where did it come from?

 

[Hard Prospector]

Recreational diggers have no protection under mining law. Prospectors, commercial and "casual" miners have full protection under 1872 (and other) Mining Law. NEVER EVER USE THE WORD RECREATIONAL BEFORE PROSPECTOR OR MINER!

 

[Hard Prospector]

Prospecting is Prospecting.....there isn't anything "recreational" about it. Tell them to shove their permit up their recreational hole!

Well put Hefty! Dude I like your way with words!

 

[goldenIrishman]

Prospecting is Prospecting.....there isn't anything "recreational" about it. Tell them to shove their permit up their recreational hole!

I find it funny that they could even think that so much hard work is "recreational". That's right up there with jumbo shrimp, military intelligence and reality T.V.!

 

[Hoser John]

They have done this and worse on the Merced River system and many other places also. Legal never stops them......sic sic sic slow death of freedom to mine in the USA....I'll NEVER give up as long as I'm alive--John Perfect example on another post from JDolittle-"Indiana law says we can only prospect between sunrise, and sunset. Won't do any good here. We don't have any nuggets big enough to see with it anyway" NOW where is that law in the 1872 mining laws---just 1 example of 100s a 1,000s of violations in this sic arse environutz country....

 

[Hefty1]

So no one who replied except hefty clicked the link and read the page? Amazing!

The text quoted in the first post isn't on the page. Where did it come from?

Good point...I got so drawn into the other bs, that I didn't see what Mike wrote. Where did that quote come from?

 

[motohed]

I read the post and think it's total BS , Just more buracratic nonsence . It does'nt matter what time frame it came from . The fact is everyday the burocrats are trying to close down mining , I would not be surprized if the federal government isn't planing on taking over mining on the goverment level . I'm not trying to make a political post , this is just my opinion .

 

[MadMarshall]

Notice the key word "Recreational". No such word in the 1872 law. Show them your bare buttocks and tell em to KISS THIS.

truthfully for me this is the poorest argument one could bring to the table....

New 49rs AMRA GPAA and pretty much every other prospecting club are RECREATIONAL!

They advertise themselves as such and they use the land as such!!( Recreational Prospectors!!) Now a Days you can buy/stake gold claims for recreational purposes.. Or you can just join one of many clubs for Recreational prospecting. And the many many others... All recreational..

 

[Goldwasher]

People were living on mining claims in the 1960's to dodge the draft and stay under the radar. Some families in Norcal, Idaho, Oregon and other places were forcibly removed as well in the 1980's also. they were actually working and living.
All over the Southern California area there was an exodus of counter culture groups that went back country to commune live off the land or whatever you want to call it. I've been to several remnant camps. the San Gabriel Canyon area Lytle Creek, San Gorgonios, Joshua Tree area Big bear were the easiest to get to and favored because you could un-commune pretty easily. The Owens valley had several canyons on the sierra side that were lived in off and on those were the heartier souls. I lived on a ranch in Lone Pine one canyon over were some dugouts and a small camp. During the depression it was called the "Hermit Caves" built by a man named "Wheelbarrow Jim" and his brother. Jim pushed a wheelbarrow to town and up to Whitney portal to what was called Putmans cabin. Ownd by Amelia Earharts husband. He befriended wheelbarrow Jim. Jim would come over at night (to the ranch) and actually do some night time garden work with out permission. He would pull some weeds do some other work and relieve the owners of some orchard fruit or vegetables. The owner knew it was him but, since he was trying to be respectful in his trading they never tried to stop him.
We had a few of jim's journals that were saved luckily. One of the best ones was a copy. the original wasmade on an old personal phone number directory book. So, on the left margin were letters A through Z....He, made entries almost every day about his prospecting, and exploring. But, mostly a lot of ranting. He was very religous and talke dabout God a lot. Funny thing is there was a pattern during the summer when it got pretty darn hot...(anyone who has been to the Owens valley in the summer knows what I mean by crazy hot!!!!) He would talk about suicide often.
The Inyo County History Museum...one of the smallest there is it has no posted hours of operation used to have Jims wheelbarrow frame and more info thats where I researched about him trying to add to the journals weird rambling info. "wheelbarrow Jim was well known.Even though he was a ww! vet who was wounded and most believe mentally disabled and an older fella at the time he believed that he was going to be drafted into ww2. he actually got into it with a deputy and was shot. he survived he and his brother abandoned camp after the war. The only thing I regret about divorcing my Ex-wife is losing access to the ranch I lived on and the local history. Lone Pine is a nice place to visit as well. I still take the kids to go see thier grand parents and they stay with mom for part of the summer....other than that it is a hellhole backwards place....there are however very many great places to prospect and good gold nearby....I do miss living there for that.

One of the most famous/infamous squatter groups to come up into Inyo County was the Manson family. A few in the group at been up near Olancha and had been going into the southern area of Death Valley before they made the move as a larger group to the Barker Ranch. The barker was not the only place they holed up just where they were when everything went down. The L.a. Dist. attorney was actually clueless as to who commited the murders. And had no Knowledge of the families activities in Death Valley Monument. If the family wasn't out stealing dune buggies stealing from camps and monkey wrenching Dept. of Interior road equipment they would not have been on the radar of the Inyo county Sherrifs Dept. The reason that they raided the Barker ranch was too nab these thieving vandalizing hippies. They had no Idea who they were.They actuall had the ranch house cleared out had no idea how many longhairs they were hunting down even...no warrants no names. One of the deputies went back in to do a final search and back in the bathroom there was a small...and I've seen it SMALL little sink/vanity cabinet....with a door closed yet a locke of hair was closed in the door and HELLOOOOO Charlie ! the rest is histrory.
The cell where they were held is stll there and their graffiti remains. The only thing kept in there now is those woodgrain looking cardboard boxes. The news footage of the manson girls walking down a hall was downstairs in the Inyo County Corthouse going from that cell to their extradition hearing in courtroom #1. During that time the Hermit Caves were renamed the Hippie Caves. It was rumored that the family made several trips tp lone Pine as it was the closest town to the wesern side of Death Valley Monument. I could never find solid evidence that any of them spent any time in the canyon a few ridges over from the ranch I lved on but, always wondered.
The withdwl at Keysville was directly related to this type of squatting the Dept. of interior was under local pressure so they invalidated claimes and with drew what wasn't using the Mining Law and it stands today...I'm prtty sure no real knowledgeable prospectors bother giving blm any notice as there is no real code forcing you to or law to prosecute if you don't

Happy History Saturday .....................

P.S. there is a book written by a deputy who was there at the Barker Ranch.. He still works for the I.C.S.O. He has been promoted several times by now It's called " Desert Shadows" You may be able to find it online. Or you could make the trip up HWY 395 to the Lone Pine Rock and Gem shop and buy a copy. I'm not sharing mine

 

[Goldwasher]

truthfully for me this is the poorest argument one could bring to the table....

New 49rs AMRA GPAA and pretty much every other prospecting club are RECREATIONAL!

They advertise themselves as such and they use the land as such!!( Recreational Prospectors!!) Now a Days you can buy/stake gold claims for recreational purposes.. Or you can just join one of many clubs for Recreational prospecting. And the many many others... All recreational..

Doesn't matter what they call themselves in the laws eyes there is no such thing. Most knowledgeable prospectors know why to avoid the title. No one stakes claims for the purpose of recreation. People stake claims to develop mineral resource's.( or if they're shady to sell to naive buyers) If someone feels like they are prospecting as a recreation so be it. Doesn't define it as a recreation however.