The Lost Doc Thorne Mine - was it the same mine of Jacob Waltz?

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

He has come

 

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[Somero]

You are still avoiding the original question. What's it going to take for you to just provide verifiable proof of the LDM or any lost mine? Not to mention that it is Waltz's descendants that are claiming that Waltz traded salt for gold with humanoid creatures.

I've gotten back on topic posting a multitude of news articles about Dr Thorne while you continually dance around a simple request.

The original post:

Not to mention that it is Waltz's descendants that are claiming that Waltz traded salt for gold with humanoid creatures.

I think if I were continually hounded by people asking questions I would start making up also.

What would you consider verifiable proof? Perhaps you could find it in here somewhere The Lost Dutchman's Mine As I remember somebody had verifiable proof it was around Spirit Mountain and verifiable proof of a "Mission"

Let's keep in mind I am not keeping anything from the Doc Thorne thread, you brought the Lizard people into this, I'm just waiting for the proof such creatures exist.

So please, do continue with Doc Thorne [URL=http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/AZbound11/media/Desert/cid_A9E79176AECA41D199220E5DF340913Acompany0d8d754_zps7913f598.gif.html] [/URL] I am all ears and curious where this will go.

 

[sgtfda]

I would think you would fist define a lost mine. My definition would be a deposit found and worked in the distant past without a modern record of it location. For some reason it was abandoned. Some of these mines were known of in the prospecting community at the time and are recorded in past history but the exact location lost. There are those the person kept the location secret for oblivious reasons. Some were later rediscovered claimed and worked. Even today there are prospectors who find a rich spot and keep it to themselves. I know a few myself. I've seen the gold and buy some for the Gpap raffles. To say there is no such thing as a lost mine is foolish.

 

[chlsbrns]

I would think you would fist define a lost mine. My definition would be a deposit found and worked in the distant past without a modern record of it location. For some reason it was abandoned. Some of these mines were known of in the prospecting community at the time and are recorded in past history but the exact location lost. There are those the person kept the location secret for oblivious reasons. Some were later rediscovered claimed and worked. Even today there are prospectors who find a rich spot and keep it to themselves. I know a few myself. I've seen the gold and buy some for the Gpap raffles. To say there is no such thing as a lost mine is foolish.

Who said there was no such thing as a lost mine? Using your definition I know where there are thousands of lost mines.

Using your definition the LDM would not be defined as a lost mine. There is zero proof that it ever existed, it wasn't known by the prospecting community and is not recorded in history.

There are at least 62 variants of the Lost Dutchman "story" – some of the variations are minor, but others are substantial, casting the story in a very different light from the other versions. Keeping in mind that there are sometimes considerable variance between the "tales"

There have been at least four legendary Lost Dutchman gold mines in the American West, including the famed Superstition mine of Jacob Waltz". One Lost Dutchman mine is said to be in Colorado, another in California; two are said to be located in Arizona. "Tales" of these other Lost Dutchman mines can be traced to at least the 1870s. The earliest Lost Dutchman mine in Arizona was said to have been near Wickenburg, about 110 mi north-west of the Superstition Mountains: a Dutchman was allegedly discovered dead in the desert near Wickenburg in the 1870s alongside saddlebags filled with gold fragments of this "legend" have perhaps become attached to the "mythical" mine of Jacob Waltz

 

[Oroblanco]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone;

Sorry for letting the discussion get so derailed by a person that obviously came to the thread with an axe to grind. It rubbed me the wrong way to see this person insulting my friends and myself for no reason. That is "fun" for some people.

We often see people demanding to see absolute, solid proof of a lost mine. In the case of the Lost Dutchman the famous piece of evidence is the matchbox made from ore which according to the source, came from beneath the deathbed of Jacob Waltz and originates in his mine.


The Silver King is absolute proof that lost mines can be found and turn out to be very rich. Anyone that thinks all lost mines are bunk ought to look at some of the lost mines which are no longer lost and rethink their position.

Actions speak louder than words - a number of people saw Waltz heading into the mountains with his prospecting gear on more than one occasion, which would be a little odd if it were just a cache getting cleaned out. Dr Thorn made expeditions to try to find the gold he had seen while a captive of the Indians, which if it were simply a pile of ore on the ground would hardly be logical to tell others that there was more gold than just a pile which could have been moved by the Apaches. Gold veins can't be moved to a new place.

Last point - a good many gold mines have been discovered by people out hunting for a lost mine. Just being out there looking increases your chances of making a great find. Staying at home and trying to get others to look elsewhere or discourage others from even looking, really raises questions about hidden motives.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek - and a great feast today!
Oroblanco

 

[Cubfan64]

chlsbrns said: As far as I'm concerned all lost mine stories are a bunch of bunk!

I think you were the only person who said the above quote in this very thread right? Now you ask who said such a thing?

If you don't believe in lost mines and don't believe the Lost Dutchman mine exists or ever existed, how silly is it to continue wasting your valuable time on a forum completely devoted to the subject?? Every once in awhile someone shows up to do that and that phenomena always confused me.

I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing how very familiar the tone and structure of your posts are.

I'll keep searching for all the other mine claims you stated that Jacob Waltz was involved in. Kind of ironic that out of all the documented factual mining claims you stated that Waltz was part of, the only 3 you decided to save, copy and paste were the exact same ones most every dutchhunter is also aware of. I'm sure if I keep searching, I'll find the other 7 you ran across. If you should think of any other hints as to where they might be, let me know.

 

[somehiker]

Who said there was no such thing as a lost mine? Using your definition I know where there are thousands of lost mines.

Using your definition the LDM would not be defined as a lost mine. There is zero proof that it ever existed, it wasn't known by the prospecting community and is not recorded in history.

There are at least 62 variants of the Lost Dutchman "story" – some of the variations are minor, but others are substantial, casting the story in a very different light from the other versions. Keeping in mind that there are sometimes considerable variance between the "tales"

There have been at least four legendary Lost Dutchman gold mines in the American West, including the famed Superstition mine of Jacob Waltz". One Lost Dutchman mine is said to be in Colorado, another in California; two are said to be located in Arizona. "Tales" of these other Lost Dutchman mines can be traced to at least the 1870s. The earliest Lost Dutchman mine in Arizona was said to have been near Wickenburg, about 110 mi north-west of the Superstition Mountains: a Dutchman was allegedly discovered dead in the desert near Wickenburg in the 1870s alongside saddlebags filled with gold fragments of this "legend" have perhaps become attached to the "mythical" mine of Jacob Waltz

Nothing more than a "cut and paste" newby.....in other words a plagarizer of other authors.
Lost Dutchman's Gold Mine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So obviously, she is not wasting as much time trolling this thread as some might think.
(In other topics on this board she has mentioned a "husband" and "hubby".....which may or may not indicate a gender of course.........)
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/345141-help-burlington-co-nj.html
Although she claims a lack of comprehension on our part, she seems kinda slow to catch on as to the reasons for our own interests in the LDM.
She also complains of a lack of interest in chasing her dreams of "billions", yet only two days ago had this to say...
"I can only get the guys to work a few different locations each summer."

Regards:SH.

 

[chlsbrns]

To say there is no such thing as a lost mine is foolish.

chlsbrns said: As far as I'm concerned all lost mine stories are a bunch of bunk!

I think you were the only person who said the above quote in this very thread right? Now you ask who said such a thing?

>>> I said: "Who said there was no such thing as a lost mine?" I also said: "As far as I'm concerned all lost mine stories are a bunch of bunk!" I did say: "Using your definition I know where there are thousands of lost mines" I did not say: there is no such thing as a lost mine

If you don't believe in lost mines and don't believe the Lost Dutchman mine exists or ever existed, how silly is it to continue wasting your valuable time on a forum completely devoted to the subject?? Every once in awhile someone shows up to do that and that phenomena always confused me.

>>> What I do with my time is my business.

I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing how very familiar the tone and structure of your posts are.

I'll keep searching for all the other mine claims you stated that Jacob Waltz was involved in. Kind of ironic that out of all the documented factual mining claims you stated that Waltz was part of, the only 3 you decided to save, copy and paste were the exact same ones most every dutchhunter is also aware of.

>>> I guess maybe it is because the first ones were easy to find & the others were hard to find. They are lost until they are found.

I'm sure if I keep searching, I'll find the other 7 you ran across. If you should think of any other hints as to where they might be, let me know.

>>> Who said 7?

...

oroblanco: Dare I ask you to verify your claims that "a number of people saw Waltz heading into the mountains with his prospecting gear on more than one occasion" Did they also see the gun that he would shoot them with if they followed him?

As far as demanding proof may I direct you to:

If you claim Folklore as Fact without proof expect criticism. Basically what you have done is ruin a very good thread discussing Doc Thorne by interjecting you OPINION as FACT without any valid proof, kinda like the confusion about a certain "Mission" and "Mummy". So, asking nicely here, can we get back to Doc Thorne and you can go start a thread somewhere else about Fairy Tales, I'm sure there are others who will give you all the encouragement and attention you desire, just don't expect the Lost Dutchman Forum to roll over and accept your Folklore as Facts.

>>>This came from somero who believes in the LDM. A STORY that is not based on FACTS, is FOLKLORE and could be considered a FAIRY TALE. I was merely asking for proof from him and mind you he never gave me any. Double Standard?

As for me I will continue to respect others beliefs, just don't expect me to believe the moon is made of cheese.

alleged - declared but not proved; An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.

It is alleged that the gold ore that was allegedly under Waltz's bed was from what has been called the lost dutchman mine (since about 1890 decades after Waltz died) It is also alleged that a lighter was made from alleged ore allegedly taken from under Waltz's bed when he died.

Last Point: Lawyer or not no one would be allowed to mine any gold in the area alleged to be the lost dutchman mine and numerous other lost mines. Judges rule according to the law they do not make laws. They can not rule to allow something that is contrary to the law. Lawyers will take your money knowing that there is nothing they can do for you.

somehiker: Get back to me when you can comprehend what you read without making assumptions. Also, we found a whole lot of silver coins, gold and other valuables on the property in Burlington County. Did you see my post with the castings I made from gold? The gold came from lost mines! You should consider changing your name from somehiker to somestalker.

Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted?

 

[Cubfan64]

...

oroblanco: Dare I ask you to verify your claims that "a number of people saw Waltz heading into the mountains with his prospecting gear on more than one occasion" Did they also see the gun that he would shoot them with if they followed him?

alleged - declared but not proved; An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.

It is alleged that the gold ore that was allegedly under Waltz's bed was from what has been called the lost dutchman mine (since about 1890 decades after Waltz died) It is also alleged that a lighter was made from alleged ore allegedly taken from under Waltz's bed when he died.

Last Point: Lawyer or not no one would be allowed to mine any gold in the area alleged to be the lost dutchman mine and numerous other lost mines. Judges rule according to the law they do not make laws. They can not rule to allow something that is contrary to the law. Lawyers will take your money knowing that there is nothing they can do for you.

somehiker: Get back to me when you can comprehend what you read without making assumptions. Also, we found a whole lot of silver coins, gold and other valuables on the property in Burlington County. Did you see my post with the castings I made from gold? The gold came from lost mines! You should consider changing your name from somehiker to somestalker.

Did you or did you not say you had found 15 mining claims that Waltz was involved in?? The ones you posted account for 3 (8 if you consider the Gross lode to be 6 individual ones). Last I checked, 15 minus 8 = 7.

 

[chlsbrns]

Did you or did you not say you had found 15 mining claims that Waltz was involved in?? The ones you posted account for 3 (8 if you consider the Gross lode to be 6 individual ones). Last I checked, 15 minus 8 = 7.

I've already explained this a few times.

Did you red the claim docs I posted? I have more but if I remember correctly there were about 15 claims. The one posted in this reply shows six claims. If you can read it when it pops up click on the pic again and it will be larger.

Yup, 6 on that one.
5 by discovery, and 1 by presumption.
Turkey Creek District.

It's actually 5 by presumption and 1 by discovery that was on one of the filed claims.

 

[Cubfan64]

I've already explained this a few times.

Sheesh, for someone who complains that people don't read and can't comprehend what's written, I'm tired of going back and forth with you. One minute you say there is documented evidence of 15 claims, then you can't remember where you've seen all the ones other than the typical ones everyone knows about, then you say there have been only 3 documented in Arizona, then when I say you're evidence comes up with 8 (including 6 for the Gross Lode) leaving 7 yet to be found, you can't figure out where I come up with the figure 7.

Congrats, you now have one less person to argue with here - apparently your goal is to do nothing more than argue and cut and paste things that have little or nothing to do with the subject. As for me, I have far better things to do than try to make sense of anything you have to say.

 

[chlsbrns]

Sheesh, for someone who complains that people don't read and can't comprehend what's written, I'm tired of going back and forth with you. One minute you say there is documented evidence of 15 claims, then you can't remember where you've seen all the ones other than the typical ones everyone knows about, then you say there have been only 3 documented in Arizona, then when I say you're evidence comes up with 8 (including 6 for the Gross Lode) leaving 7 yet to be found, you can't figure out where I come up with the figure 7.

Congrats, you now have one less person to argue with here - apparently your goal is to do nothing more than argue and cut and paste things that have little or nothing to do with the subject. As for me, I have far better things to do than try to make sense of anything you have to say.

I guess that you didn't see the post above your last post? I said/posted little to none of what you have claimed I posted in your last post. (The post quoted here)

Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted in this thread?

 

[somehiker]

"somehiker: Get back to me when you can comprehend what you read without making assumptions. Also, we found a whole lot of silver coins, gold and other valuables on the property in Burlington County. Did you see my post with the castings I made from gold? The gold came from lost mines! You should consider changing your name from somehiker to somestalker."

Yes I did. But in that conversation you said the gold came from some fines you had......
On Nov. 15th, less than two weeks ago, you also said this....
"Soon I will be melting the gold/silver that I find with my MD."

Need I say more ?

"Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted in this thread?"

This question betrays your status as just another troll seeking attention through intimidation and grandiose claims.
Just about every regular poster on these topics has, over many more years, posted far more verifiable info than you will ever be able to read, let alone match. So you have a whole lot of catching up to do !
And that's a verifiable fact.

I also see no reason to carry on with this charade.

 

[chlsbrns]

"somehiker: Get back to me when you can comprehend what you read without making assumptions. Also, we found a whole lot of silver coins, gold and other valuables on the property in Burlington County. Did you see my post with the castings I made from gold? The gold came from lost mines! You should consider changing your name from somehiker to somestalker."

Yes I did. But in that conversation you said the gold came from some fines you had......
On Nov. 15th, less than two weeks ago, you also said this....
"Soon I will be melting the gold/silver that I find with my MD."

Need I say more ?

>>> Yes fines from a lost mine. I should melt my pickers and nuggets? I'm not comprehending what you are trying to say or think that you have said? Did you calculate how many ounces I used to cast all that stuff? Should I make a few more ounces worth of stuff? Post a location with a USGS report of where some of that gold came from? It was about 2 oz per ton in NC from sand/sediment. Real easy to get!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/386068-one-ounce-nugget.html

"Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted in this thread?"

This question betrays your status as just another troll seeking attention through intimidation and grandiose claims.

>>> What's intimidating about my verifiable claim that I have posted more, probably all of the verifiable info in this thread? They are not grandiose claims it's a fact!

Just about every regular poster on these topics has, over many more years, posted far more verifiable info than you will ever be able to read.
And that's a verifiable fact.

>>> That may be true but I seriously doubt it. Others here could not show me any verifiable facts. Will you? Or will you just make unverified statements as you already have made?

Verifiable: to act as ultimate proof or evidence of; serve to confirm.

I also see no reason to carry on with this charade.

>>>Your giving up on the LDM?

Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted in this thread?

 

[Somero]

chlsbrns wrote>>>This came from somero who believes in the LDM. A STORY that is not based on FACTS, is FOLKLORE and could be considered a FAIRY TALE. I was merely asking for proof from him and mind you he never gave me any. Double Standard?

Putting words in my mouth I have never formally said I believe in the LDM stories, I'm the guy on the fence. For me there is enough evidence of something to be found out there that is worth investigating. So don't tell me what I believe, after all you brought the Lizard People into the topic.

You asked for verifiable proof and now ask for someone who has provided more proof than you...........again I provide you with this link right here..............The Lost Dutchman's Mine................enjoy reading and you just might find that proof along with quite a few who provide proof.

So if you got the information about buried coins in that yard from say 4th degree of separation from the witness of the coins being buried, would you still have looked for them? When you understand this you might get a glimpse into the LDM puzzle.

 

[Somero]

...

oroblanco: Dare I ask you to verify your claims that "a number of people saw Waltz heading into the mountains with his prospecting gear on more than one occasion" Did they also see the gun that he would shoot them with if they followed him?

Pretty sure everyone carried a gun in the Superstitions back then and most still do.

As far as demanding proof may I direct you to:




alleged - declared but not proved; An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.

It is alleged that the gold ore that was allegedly under Waltz's bed was from what has been called the lost dutchman mine (since about 1890 decades after Waltz died) It is also alleged that a lighter was made from alleged ore allegedly taken from under Waltz's bed when he died.

Jacob Waltz died in 1891 That has been verified, also it's a MATCHBOX.

Last Point: Lawyer or not no one would be allowed to mine any gold in the area alleged to be the lost dutchman mine and numerous other lost mines. Judges rule according to the law they do not make laws. They can not rule to allow something that is contrary to the law. Lawyers will take your money knowing that there is nothing they can do for you.

It is possible to get a Treasure Trove Permit with everything done legally.

somehiker: Get back to me when you can comprehend what you read without making assumptions. Also, we found a whole lot of silver coins, gold and other valuables on the property in Burlington County. Did you see my post with the castings I made from gold? The gold came from lost mines! You should consider changing your name from somehiker to somestalker.

Just plain rude, after all you posted on a public forum, so be carful what you call people

Can any of you direct me to a poster in this thread who has posted more verifiable info than I have posted? Found here.........................The Lost Dutchman's Mine

So how are those Lizard People doing? [URL=http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/AZbound11/media/Desert/cid_A9E79176AECA41D199220E5DF340913Acompany0d8d754_zps7913f598.gif.html] [/URL]

 

[sgtfda]

Judges do make law. Case law with their decisions

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

Yes, I know. But than again, Jack never said that "silver ore is actually Lost Dutchman Gold", nor has he ever tried to convince anyone that it was. Do you think that is what he was trying to do?

Take care,

Joe

Howdy Joe,

I tried to send you a long reply trying to explain things to you, but it didn't go through. I guess it was just to much information for my computer to handle.

Short answer, if he is trying to convince everyone that the LDM clues fit, yes.

We can now debate this in its proper thread, so this will be my last post concerning the Pit Mine here.

Homar

 

[chlsbrns]

chlsbrns wrote>>>This came from somero who believes in the LDM. A STORY that is not based on FACTS, is FOLKLORE and could be considered a FAIRY TALE. I was merely asking for proof from him and mind you he never gave me any. Double Standard?

Putting words in my mouth I have never formally said I believe in the LDM stories, I'm the guy on the fence. For me there is enough evidence of something to be found out there that is worth investigating. So don't tell me what I believe, after all you brought the Lizard People into the topic.


>>>evidence = proof. Can you provide a shred of it?

evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

You asked for verifiable proof and now ask for someone who has provided more proof than you...........again I provide you with this link right here..............The Lost Dutchman's Mine................enjoy reading and you just might find that proof along with quite a few who provide proof.

>>> Hahaha! Funny! It's ok you have made it perfectly clear that you can not provide any proof or answer the question as asked.

So if you got the information about buried coins in that yard from say 4th degree of separation from the witness of the coins being buried, would you still have looked for them? When you understand this you might get a glimpse into the LDM puzzle.

A puzzle can be put together.

 

[chlsbrns]

So how are those Lizard People doing?

It is possible to get a Treasure Trove Permit with everything done legally. I would ask you for verification if I didn't already know the answer. Make sure you read the whole thing and try to comprehend what you read.

This is called proof: Tonto National Forest - Special Places It's Tonto National Forest but applies to all National Forests. Hahaha! It's ok if you don't reply.

The lizard people came from a direct descendant of Waltz. You really should read it! The great grandson took people to the cave!

excerpt: After what seemed to be an eternity, we came to a stop and Karl removed my blindfold. As my eyes adjusted to the bright sunlight again, I looked around me. We were in a large clearing flush against the canyon wall. Karl motioned for me to climb down from my now, uncomfortable perch, as he did the same. After stretching my tensed up body I turned to Karl who was standing next to the sheet cliff wall. "Put your hand against the wall right here," he said pointing to the solid rock face. I did as he asked, and my hand didn't stop. It continued right through the wall. It seemed that the cliff wall was only a created illusion to keep unwanted people away. Actually it was the entrance to a large secret cave called "PUPOVI." As we walked inside I was amazed to find the cave was brightly lit. Before us was a sort of escalator type device which you lay down on. There was some sort of transparent bubble which covered you called a HAWIOVI. My heart was beating fast, so I stood looking at this strange sight as I caught my breath.


World Top Secret:* Our Earth Is Hollow!

JOURNEY TO PALATKWAPI

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sumeranu/reptiles17_04.jpg