Discoidal?

[GL]

I found this bad boy while driving past a cornfield about a mile away. I saw the edge of it sticking out of a row facing the street. I continued with my day and got to thinking about how odd a round rock was in a field when I decided to go back and check it out. I leaned over a ditch and pulled this out. I knew it was Indian, but I figured it was a pestle or something for crushing corn or warpaint or something. I have seen other members call these discoidals.
What are they and what were they for?

 

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[Neanderthal]

Yes, does appear to be a disc. I don't think it was finished and they most likely would have refined it even more with final grinding and polishing. Very good find, much more rare than flint.

 

[Ohio_Doug]

I agree, you have a disc there. Good find

 

[*Molly*]

Nice find, GL.

Molly.

 

[GL]

Thanks everyone, what are they for? Games? I've had that for a while.
I have bigger one that is in my walkway...yikes!
I'll get a picture tomorrow.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I agree. That is a Discoidal that just been rough pecked and never finished, but it's still a very nice find.

Congrats and thanks for the pictures.

 

[pickaway]

Way to go great find...

 

[Cannonman17]

I guess I would like to lean towards discoidal also but would add that it could be a hammerstone. I have found them worn flat around the edges and with divits in one side before. Does the flat edge on the outside appear to have been used at all?

 

[creekhunter]

Isn't it a tad big for a discoidal, I have only seen a very few that large

 

[Neanderthal]

Paul, hammerstones are round, like a small stone tennis ball. They are round like that (hammerstones), to make it easier to move them around and find new striking surfaces. Notice the large concave sides on that piece, typical disc....although still in manufacturing stages. I'm wondering if the pieces you are finding with the divets on the sides are what bell calls pitted manos or handstones? Bell's book is free online and I believe it shows a few of them in it (OAS website has it digitized I think). They are very common here, but aren't quite like a discoidal. Speaking of fitted (pitted) manos and nutting stones...I'm not at all convinced that they were used for nutting stones at all. After finding and examining a buttload of them, I'm starting to lean towards them being used for manufacturing something or other. Dunno...the questions are what makes it fun.

Hey, this reminds me..I will try to post a pic sometime in this century of a display that I think you'll get a kick out of. It's an educational display on how stone tool manufacturing over in Ark. I cast my son's hands knapping (using real hammerstones & pressure flaker) for the panorama.


Creek, It's not at all large for discoidal, I've seen them over 6" in diameter. There also are several different variants of discs throughout the country. They were used in a game called Chunkey (chung-ke).

 

[creekhunter]

Thanks Matt Good post

 

[Jonnyreb]

Thanks everyone, what are they for? Games? I've had that for a while.
I have bigger one that is in my walkway...yikes!
I'll get a picture tomorrow.

There was a game called "Chunkey" where a discoidal like that would be rolled down a court and the contestants would throw spears at the area where it was most likely to stop or fall over. Early exploerers stated that some natives lost or won fortunes on that game.
Nice find. Very nice indeed.

 

[Cannonman17]

Paul, hammerstones are round, like a small stone tennis ball. They are round like that (hammerstones), to make it easier to move them around and find new striking surfaces. Notice the large concave sides on that piece, typical disc....although still in manufacturing stages. I'm wondering if the pieces you are finding with the divets on the sides are what bell calls pitted manos or handstones? Bell's book is free online and I believe it shows a few of them in it (OAS website has it digitized I think). They are very common here, but aren't quite like a discoidal. Speaking of fitted (pitted) manos and nutting stones...I'm not at all convinced that they were used for nutting stones at all. After finding and examining a buttload of them, I'm starting to lean towards them being used for manufacturing something or other. Dunno...the questions are what makes it fun.

Hey, this reminds me..I will try to post a pic sometime in this century of a display that I think you'll get a kick out of. It's an educational display on how stone tool manufacturing over in Ark. I cast my son's hands knapping (using real hammerstones & pressure flaker) for the panorama.


Creek, It's not at all large for discoidal, I've seen them over 6" in diameter. There also are several different variants of discs throughout the country. They were used in a game called Chunkey (chung-ke).

Matt,
I guess I would mostly agree with you except for hammerstones being round, certainly most are semi roundish but there's plenty that aren't. My experience has been that almost any stone will do for small percussion flaking and when used for an extensive period of time the end shape is often round. Perhaps the round ones are more of an indication of how long they were used vs. form/function- just a thought. Also, here is one of the "hammerstones" with a divit in the side that was found with a broken snyders blade, the site also had some raised garden beds. It's about three inches across or so with a pretty good divit in one side. The outside edges is pitted 100% with peck marks, the piece is about an inch or inch and a half thick, what do you think about this one?

 

[GL]

That looks just like mine!

 

[Neanderthal]

Matt,
I guess I would mostly agree with you except for hammerstones being round, certainly most are semi roundish but there's plenty that aren't. My experience has been that almost any stone will do for small percussion flaking and when used for an extensive period of time the end shape is often round. Perhaps the round ones are more of an indication of how long they were used vs. form/function- just a thought. Also, here is one of the "hammerstones" with a divit in the side that was found with a broken snyders blade, the site also had some raised garden beds. It's about three inches across or so with a pretty good divit in one side. The outside edges is pitted 100% with peck marks, the piece is about an inch or inch and a half thick, what do you think about this one?

Cool piece Paul. I have used hammerstones pretty extensively in knapping, often times just finding a rounded quartzy cobble laying around. They really don't seem to start out round (but alot of mine do, simply to make things easier), but will become that way after knapping some with them. It will wear down any sharpened edges eventually and become just a rounded stone. It's possible they could have used a stone such as you're showing for knapping, but improbable. As you pointed out, the sphere form is just an end result, but they work much better round and I think they would try to make them round as quickly as possible. I don't think they would spend much time working it to that shape, only to have it lose it during the knapping process. Is yours indented on both sides? Does it show any grinding whatsoever? It looks to be a pecked out preform...perhaps disc, nutting stone or pitted mano, I'm not sure. I have a buttload of "pitted manos" and hammerstones, but no discs (really wish we found them here). Hey, this reminds me!! About 25 years or so ago, I found a KILLER round hammerstone (found it again the other day in a box in the closet) that wasn't made of stone...it's made of Galena (lead)!!!!! I thought it was a small cannonball at first and found the "crude pecked look" unusual...after further examination, I was floored to find out that it was galena. Has a few quartz inclusions, and is one of my favorite pieces.

 

[GL]

Pictures please!
I would love to see it.

 

[Cannonman17]

Interesting for sure. This one has no indication of grinding at all. Furthermore it's made of a hard sandstone, I think it's just local sandstone with a high iron content (this stuff can be found in layers here and there in the local sandstone formations and is much more durable than the surrounding stuff) Do you think it could be a discoidal preform of sorts? My gut instinct when holding it makes me think that it's something other than that but boy, I would love to label it one!

A galena hammerstone? No way!! I've never heard or seen of one. Actually, galena is a pretty rare find here (inspite of the relative closeness of the source) of all the sites I have hunted I have only ever found one piece, about one inch square and it was from a site on the Wisconsin river that had been inhabited periodically for thousands of years, what period it came from exactly is anybodies guess but I assume it was some later woodland/mississippian/oneota phase of the site that brought it there.