$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

[ClonedSIM]

Exactly.

 

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[ClonedSIM]

And before you go calling it a scam, remember this: he is an internationally known celebrity. He has to be very scrupulous as to this challenge.

You are right. He has to be very careful because of the position he has attained. But, I know for fact that some of his activities prior to his organization weren't as scrupulous. There are hidden secrets behind this master of illusion and deception. Some day the truth will be revealed. Perhaps soon. Dell

If you have this proof, why not reveal it yourself?

 

[Captain Trips]

And before you go calling it a scam, remember this: he is an internationally known celebrity. He has to be very scrupulous as to this challenge.

You are right. He has to be very careful because of the position he has attained. But, I know for fact that some of his activities prior to his organization weren't as scrupulous. There are hidden secrets behind this master of illusion and deception. Some day the truth will be revealed. Perhaps soon. Dell

If you have this proof, why not reveal it yourself?

And if you DON'T have proof, don't make false accusations.

"10. Thou shalt bear no false witness against thy neighbor."

 

[aarthrj3811]

That wasn't the point- the point was If no one has even qualified to take the test, how could they possibly be on TV failing it? (If they never even qualified?)

That's the Million Dollar question. Why are these people on TV if according to the web site no one has qualified to take the challenge? Another one is how come no one has qualified to take the challenge?

I am told the reason no one has qualified for the challenge is that they can not pass the preliminary testing. As you can see there is a lot more to this Challenge than most people think...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

As someone who mocks and directs everyone to Randi's site, you would think you would be able to answer your own questions, Art.
Do you think Randi just sits around all day waiting for his phone to ring? Doubtful.
If it wasn't for the preliminary screening, then any crackpot with visions of cash would be biting huge chunks out of Randi's time. The preliminary testing allows the foundation to make sure these is some basis to test the claimant further or not.
Imagine this. A person claims he can bend spoons with his mind. But this man is in India. So rather than fly to India with his associates and equipment, he contacts a friend there to set up a preliminary test. If the preliminary test comes back positive, then further time and expense will be spent to complete the challenge.
Let me put it another way. Say you were the coach of an NFL team, and a guy walks up and says he can throw better than your best quarterback. Would you immediately throw him into a jersey and start paying the guy?
Any normal individual would want to test this man's ability first before bringing him to the big show. But since you don't believe in preliminary testing, I would like your opinion as well.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Ok af1733.....Can you tell me how many people have taken the preliminary test in the last 10 years? Can you tell me what the requirements are to be qualified for the preliminary test? The only thing that is clear is that for $6.00 I can get an application...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Ok af1733.....Can you tell me how many people have taken the preliminary test in the last 10 years? Can you tell me what the requirements are to be qualified for the preliminary test? The only thing that is clear is that for $6.00 I can get an application...Art

It's all on the site, which you've supposedly already read.

And of course, this post simply confirms what I've been saying all along.
Art, you cannot carry on an intelligent conversation for longer than one post. It's just beyond your mental capacity. How many points have I brought up that you've completely ignored? Do you think no one notices this?

Here's what you've taught us, Art.
1. You won't attempt, and can't pass, Randi's challenge.
2. You won't get rich while dowsing, but every hole you dig contains treasure, save a few with hot rocks.
3. You like to throw around the word "fraud" but seem to have no grasp of the word's meaning.
4. You love to ask questions you already know the answers to. (Is this so you won't get it wrong?)
5. You can't answer questions directed at you, no matter how plainly worded.
6. You say there's no reason dowsing should work, and have no inclination to find one.
7. If someone does want to find a reason, you call them a skeptic.
Art in a nutshell.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey af1733....You will not answer a question. You continue to answer every post with insults. If you are so smart why are you responding to a dummy like me? I look forward to hearing what the great Randi's next illusion will be...Looks like you think Magicians really perform magic and that pro wrestling is real....Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Can you tell me how many people have taken the preliminary test in the last 10 years?

You'd have to ask JREF, but there have been several hundred formal applications, and probably 100 or prelim tests.

Can you tell me what the requirements are to be qualified for the preliminary test?

It's on the JREF website.

The only thing that is clear is that for $6.00 I can get an application.

Where do you get that from? The application is free.

Art, every time this challenge has been discussed, your concepts of what the challenge is, and how it works, have been completely wrong. Why don't you just fill out the application, and see what happens? It costs 39¢ to do so, and it won't hurt one bit. Is there a reason?

- Carl

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Carl...My reason for not taking anybody up on their challenges is real simple. I don't need to prove to anyone how well I can Dowse. I know what I can do and I'm the only person I need to prove anything to. I have never done anything that was not necessary so why should I start now....Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Hey Carl...My reason for not taking anybody up on their challenges is real simple. I don't need to prove to anyone how well I can Dowse. I know what I can do and I'm the only person I need to prove anything to.

So why are you here, trying to convince people that you can dowse?

I have never done anything that was not necessary so why should I start now.

Because it's for a million dollars. Why not just mail in a 39¢ application, instead of continuously trying to bash the challenge? The ONLY way this makes any sense, is if you are convinced you can't really do what you say you can do.

- Carl

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Carl....I am here to help people who may be interested in Dowsing. I enjoy telling others about how it works for me. I also enjoy what others post about Dowsing. Its called an information exchange. But most of the time it seems like all we discuss is some stupid contest that will only prove if ONE PERSON can Dowse or not. These contest will not answer the question that you are seeking or provide any answer to the big question in your mind ...DOES DOWSING WORK...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Hey af1733....You will not answer a question. You continue to answer every post with insults. If you are so smart why are you responding to a dummy like me? I look forward to hearing what the great Randi's next illusion will be...Looks like you think Magicians really perform magic and that pro wrestling is real....Art

Ask me a question you don't know the answer to.... You say you're here to learn, right?

Where have I insulted you? I'm merely responding to your posts and asking you questions about your claims. Learning, remember? Oh, that's right. You don't want to learn. You're here to teach.

You enjoy telling others about how it works for you, unless their point of view contradicts yours.

And why do you keep on with this whole, "The contest only proves if one person can dowse," thing? If Randi wants to pay one person for proving they can dowse, then where's the problem? Most of Randi's challenges are only going to prove an ability in one person. You're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.

Personally, if just one person can prove they can dowse, then I will believe it works. But I know you don't want that to happen, right Art?

 

[Carl-NC]

But most of the time it seems like all we discuss is some stupid contest that will only prove if ONE PERSON can Dowse or not.

Yes, that's what the challenge is for... to see if ONE person can dowse or not. So far, not even one person has been able to do it.

These contest will not answer the question that you are seeking or provide any answer to the big question in your mind ...DOES DOWSING WORK.

But it does. When so-called experienced dowsers fail over and over and over in randomized blind trials, it provides a body of evidence that suggests dowsing does not work in the way dowsers would like to believe.

And it would answer the question, "Does dowsing work for Art?" After all, how can you help people with dowsing if it turns out you can't do what you think you can do?

Art, it's a million dollars if you can do it. There's no loss if you can't. You don't even have to tell anyone. At the very least, you'll get to see how the process works, so maybe, just maybe, you won't keep posting wrong information about it.

- Carl

 

[Captain Trips]

"10. Thou shalt bear no false witness against thy neighbor."

My sentiments indeed. It would be appropriate for you to direct this commandment to mr. Randi, unless of course, he is an atheist. Dell

1. He is. Although that does not invalidate the morality of honesty. And you don't need religion to be morally upright.

2. Not necessary -- he has to be honest, and able to prove it in a court of law. Otherwise crackpots like you would be taking him to court constantly. If you think he is being dishonest, go ahead and sue him for slandering you.

 

[Sandsted]

I hate to step into this conversation due to the negativity of it all, but I think I shall. I’ve never seen Randi’s or Carl’s test and I know neither of them. I am not in a position to judge their honesty or the worth of their tests. I do know that dowsing works, at least in the areas that I have used it. I’ve never tried to find gold under paper plates; I don’t use dowsing for treasure hunting. I’ve done different things to see if I can really dowse and have no doubt that it does because of these experiments. I don’t understand why no one has passed these challenges that Carl and Randi have.
One of the kinds of tests that I think would be more suitable for a dowsing test would be like what my uncle did to show my aunt that dowsing works. One time my uncle took my skeptical aunt to a cemetery to prove to her that dowsing works. My skeptical aunt chose a gravestone and covered it with a jacket and then brought my uncle to the grave. My uncle, with his dowsing, told my aunt the specimen’s age, when he died, and his gender. When they checked he was a week off on the birth date. He was exactly on the death date and correct on the gender. My aunt still doesn’t believe it even though she admits the results of the test. Some people, because of their predetermined notions concerning a controversial subject, even when shown something like this will still refuse to believe it.
I don’t know how he did this. I can dowse like this and have done it before, but under the circumstances of having someone so skeptical there and under the pressure of having to prove yourself to them…I just can’t dowse. I would not be able to pass Randi’s test. Perhaps with enough experience I will be able to overcome that. My uncle had been dowsing for over 60 years before showing my aunt this ability.
But concerning these challenges that are conversed about here, the truth is that these are not meant to find whether dowsing works or not. Those of you such as Carl and Af have already formed conclusions concerning the subject. You do not have these tests to find the answer concerning whether dowsing works or not, they are meant to prove your preconceived conclusions. This does in no way attack the authenticity or worth of the tests, but these tests are self-serving. And this is not the right way to find the truth. You should never make a conclusion until you have thoroughly studied the subject. Instead of building a test to find whether dowsing works or not, you have built a test in an attempt to prove your conclusion. This is the downfall of your research.
You must acknowledge this that these challenges are not formed and carried out from a neutral perspective (the way they should be). This does not mean that the test itself can not be a fair one, but I’d trust a test more if it was performed scientifically. And I’ve seen this mistake made in other controversial areas before and the results were and are disastrous.
And if you really care to have someone take your challenge and if you, in the future, actually care to know the truth I would suggest being kinder to those you are challenging. These depressing arguments have gotten you no where and partly because of all this I shall never be apart of your test, even for a million dollars.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Sandsted,
If you'd chosen to read more than the last ten or so posts, Randi and Carl have offered accept any reasonable testing procedures that a dowser chooses to make. I'm sure if you would offer a testing protocol similar to what your grandfather did, a test could be developed around this. The problem is that dowsers, particularly the ones involved in this discussion, have written off Randi's challenge as unbeatable, when in fact the definition of the challenge is based on what they claim they can already do. So please don't point fingers when speaking of preconceived notions unless you're willing to point them at yourself as well. From what I gather, you haven't bothered to read Randi's site before claiming that you couldn't pass a test that would be based around your own abilities.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Lets think this out..$1,000,000 in taxable income. If I were lucky I would net about $250,000. I may be 90 years old. What could I do with it. I may be younger than that and have a great paying job. I may be in my middle 60's and retired at age 41. If I need money I can go treasure hunting. The only thing money would do for me is that I could buy more expensive toy's....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

There it is, folks! Art is admitting having $1,000,000 is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Sandsted]

Af, I understand that I can design the testing protocol and if you would have read my post you would know that it was my uncle and that due to my inexperience I can not yet dowse under the conditions of a test.

"So please don't point fingers when speaking of preconceived notions unless you're willing to point them at yourself as well."-Af

No offense but your statement is founded on nothing. I have not made preconceived notions or conclusions on anything. I suggest before making such a statement you understand what you're quoting and I have read Randi's site and why I can not pass it has nothing to do with his test.

The point I am making pertains to how this "study" is and has been conducted and I'll say it again that how these tests are being conducted is wrong. Randi and Carl know that.