11th annual Dutch Hunters Rendezvous

Good Morning,

At the talk I gave last night one or two of the questions asked at the end of the talk suggested to me that some may have thought I was suggesting that Waltzā€™s mine was in the Bradshaws . I was not suggesting that, however, I can see where there might be a misunderstanding. Thus, I want to reiterate what I did say/mean.

The question addressed in the talk was: How can a mine with over 400 clues to its location be lost?

The introduction was that is it lost? After all it has been found many times, sometimes with gold. Milton Rose found it in the Four Peaks. Don Shade found it in the Western Superstitions. And just recently a party has found it in the Eastern Superstitions. All three of these reported they removed gold ore from the vein of the mine. Many others have found float gold in their personal search area. Yet, for most the mine remains lost.

The talk addressed three items that have lead to the plethora of clues:

1. The most import time in Waltzā€™s life the has contributed to the losing of the mine was the period of March to early October 1891. During this period Waltz most probably would have ben reminiscing about his life ā€“ a life that included mines and mining in California, the La Paz region of Arizona and in the Bradshaws of Arizona. His continual reminiscing for over six months eventually caused Rhinehart and Julia to ā€œtune him outā€. This tuning him out, and Waltz ā€˜s repeated recollections of different mines led to a jumble of information. Some of it correct and some likely mixed up with info. on other mines.

2. There is no guarantee that when Waltz talked about his life, let alone about any lost mine, that he did not inadvertently mix in stories of other mines. Something the listener could not know was happening without knowing before hand at least the backbone of what Waltz was trying to say.

3. Waltzā€™s habit had been to file mining claims. His name is on at least three in the Bradshaws, and on one of those he was the sole claimant. But he never file on any mines post 1866. I believe the reason is he was defrauded out of two of his Bradshaw mines. He was claim jumped. One by fraud and on one he was legally claim jumped based on the claim to the Big Rebel being filed in the wrong book. It was a double whammy and he never filed again.

As an example/evidence I cited two items from the Bark Notes. i) that one of the commonly agreed upon items is Waltz chiding Julia and Rhinehart for not listening; and ii ) that the Bark Notes have the following, ā€œHelena and Rhiney said old Jake told them that there were two pits at the mine about 75 feet deep and a like distance across the topā€¦ā€ (page 10 in my copy of the Notes). As 75 feet is a rather large distance (measure it out) for the diameter of a pit mine of that era and there were two pits I take Barkā€™s statement to mean the two pits were 75 feet apart. I went to the Big Rebel mine and found two, now pretty much filled in pits 75 feet apart. Those pits and tunnel are shown on a survey done circa 1890. Interestingly the 1890 survey shows a tunnel beneath the pits.

The Big Rebel was cited not as trying to say that Waltzā€™s lost mine (if there is one) is in the Bradshaws It was cited as an example that Waltzā€™s info. was likely mixed up by either Waltz, or by Julia and Rhintehart from Julia and Rhinehart having been almost trained by Waltz to not listen to him to closely in those 7 months preceding his death.

Thomas

PS: Richard Robinson asked a good question about something in the Bark Notes. I had no answer for Richardā€™s question. All I could say is that what most do not know is that the Bark Notes were not written as an ā€œin house documentā€, but rather they were written for publication. They were submitted to a publisher who asked for changes and Bark refused to make the changes. Bark did get some things jumbled a bit, e.g., saying he saw Waltz's naturalization certificate and later that Waltz was naturalized in 1846 in New Orleans, when Waltz applied for naturalization in Natchez MS in 1848, but was not naturalized until 1860 in L. A.
 

I enjoyed it as well (as usual)

I think you made it abundantly clear (at least to me) that you weren't giving an opinion as to the location of the mine, but as to what might have gotten confused into the conversation about it.



Mike
 

It would be much appreciated if someone could post some details on how the Rendezvous went and some pictures.

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo
 

cactusjumper said:
It would be much appreciated if someone could post some details on how the Rendezvous went and some pictures.

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo
Click to expand...

Just to give you an assessment of how things went:

Friday: Wayne, Frank, Josh, and Jesse sat up front for a Q&A. The first words off Greg Davis' Lips were "What can you tell us about the Pit Mine?" HAHAHA Things started off kinda slow, but picked up as everybody got a little more comfortable and had a few more shots of Bob Schoose's "Fireball"! Chased a rattlesnake into a rat hole just outside the Ramada. I dropped a key to my car. Frank and Ryan found it, so naturally .............................. Frank stole my car and hid it. When I noticed it missing, I lost it. Ryan threw Frank under the bus, and asked me to give Frank some s**t. I started yelling, and acting like I was about to kill someone. HAHAHA ........ and good times were had by all.

Saturday: Greg led a group up to a newly found abandoned mine in the A.M. Saturday Evening, we started with Wayne's most excellent chili, then Thomas Glover speaking about his new book, and giving everybody a little insight into it. Folks must have gotten a little too much Fireball into themselves, because even after my best drill sergeant bellow, Greg got madder than I have ever seen him, and had to yell at some folks to SHUT UP! People were a bit shocked to see Greg that angry, and it worked (mostly).

Tom and Sharon Kollenborn were there. The entire Feldman Clan, Bob Schoose, Bob and Lori Corbin, Rick Gwinn, Ryan Gordon, Paul, Matthew, Greg, Wayne, Randy, Frank, etc, etc, etc. About the only people missing were you, Carolyn, Clay, Roy and Beth, Bill Riley, and Kurt Painter. I bailed about 9:30pm Saturday night and drove home to L.A. Tom K. has several pics posted to his facebook page.

Mike
 

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Mike,

Many thanks! Almost feel like I was there.......vicariously. Anyone know who won Tom's book? Really mad that I missed meeting Bob's new bride. Guess we will just have to make a trip up there next summer.

V.A. Doc told me I was definitely exposed to Agent Orange.....for a full year.:'( That might just explain some of my crazy/anti-social behavior. :laughing7:

Thanks again,

Joe
 

Good morning Mike: You forgot to add to your post the reason I yelled. We had a second speaker making a presentation after Tom finished his talk. People were trying to hear what he was saying but he was being drowned out by a group in the back of the Ramada who were being very loud, discourtesy and impolite to the speaker by the noise perpetrating from there corner. Makes one wonder where some people learned common manners. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

Greg,

Good to see you posting.

That's also one of my pet peeves. Believe you did the right thing. Good for you!

Take care,

Joe
 

Gregory E. Davis said:
Good morning Mike: You forgot to add to your post the reason I yelled. We had a second speaker making a presentation after Tom finished his talk. People were trying to hear what he was saying but he was being drowned out by a group in the back of the Ramada who were being very loud, discourtesy and impolite to the speaker by the noise perpetrating from there corner. Makes one wonder where some people learned common manners. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
Click to expand...

Maybe I had a few too many pulls on Bob's Fireball Whiskey. I thought that happened during Thomas' Speech. HAHAHA

In the name of brevity, I omitted some of the lead-up to Greg having to yell at some folks. As the speaker was going on, some people kept getting louder and louder. Greg and others asked politely several times for people to quiet down. Greg hollered, I bellowed, then Greg got up and yelled at them to SHUT UP!

Mike
 

Doc,

What is the name and theme/ premise of your new book, and when will it be available?

Regards,

George
 

Anyone know when Jack's San Felice's book (which I understand is an update/ revision of his last book on the LDM) is due out?

George
 

Jack and I were out at the Silver King today. He showed me the book proof. A few additions and corrections it will go for the final printing. Won't be long. I'll post when it's for sale. Should be soon. Looks great.
 

howdy sarge..good seeing you at the rendezvous friday ..nice meeting heath also...hope you guys had a good time there
 

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so who wants to help me with the lost Dutchmans mine that i found

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