17 Tons of gold in New Mexico
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Roadquest
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I've been out of commission for a while with some health problems.
But, I am now back in the saddle again, so to speak.
There have been some major development's involving this project.
And I am bound by my word. To not talk about, at this time.
I have a question for the more serious researchers on this treasure.
Some of the information that we have all held back, is that there is
more that one place where this gold was buried.
Would anyone care to say how many sites, they believe this gold is
buried at.
Clayton Ramey
But, I am now back in the saddle again, so to speak.
There have been some major development's involving this project.
And I am bound by my word. To not talk about, at this time.
I have a question for the more serious researchers on this treasure.
Some of the information that we have all held back, is that there is
more that one place where this gold was buried.
Would anyone care to say how many sites, they believe this gold is
buried at.
Clayton Ramey
Salvor6
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There is a group planning on going out to the Shiprock area to search for this treasure this August. Anyone is welcome to join: http://www.treasurehuntingnews.com/treasure/great-shiprock-treasure-hunt/.
Peerless67
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The group also have a facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=230169364615&ref=mf
I understand from the news here that some of these meets organised on facebook can run into thousands of people, it should make for an interesting camp site for those who attend.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=230169364615&ref=mf
I understand from the news here that some of these meets organised on facebook can run into thousands of people, it should make for an interesting camp site for those who attend.
Peerless67
Hero Member
Roadquest said:
Hi Clayton, glad to hear your health has improved.
If you consider me one of the "more serious researchers" I will indulge myself.
I do not believe there was more than one place this gold was hidden away. However having made that statement I should make it clear that I mean the original deposit site.
Since it was deposited on the original site, I know some, or perhaps even all ? was removed by those involved.
I guess some of this has been touched on in the archives of this thread, but quite possibly there are 2 stories that have become entwinned. And this could be the source of the "more than one deposit site theory".
The only other possibility for the "2 deposit sites" could be that if the gold really arrived in the US prior to the 40s-50s, then it may have been moved from one site to the other by the group who appeared at the grand jury hearings in 1952.
I believe the latter could hold water if indeed Emil Holmdahl was the original importer, but even then the 4 corners area is distictly unlikely for an original deposit site.
I still believe there are only 3 people who could confirm that as being truth, sadly all 3 are no longer alive to verify.
gollum
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Leon Trabuco did exist. His son is still with us.
The pilot was not the man named in the story.
If the gold is buried in two places now, I couldn't say. I don't think so though. It was flown int the Four Corners Area in 1933-4. I know the ranch where it stayed buried until the Feds started coming around during the Grand Jury Investigation. It was moved somewhere to the South.
Funny thing is, if you look back in this thread, and read where Purchase said he found this gold it is on a perfect straight line South from the spot it was buried from 1933 until 1952. I mean straight down to two decimal places of Latitude. If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried.
Best-Mike
The pilot was not the man named in the story.
If the gold is buried in two places now, I couldn't say. I don't think so though. It was flown int the Four Corners Area in 1933-4. I know the ranch where it stayed buried until the Feds started coming around during the Grand Jury Investigation. It was moved somewhere to the South.
Funny thing is, if you look back in this thread, and read where Purchase said he found this gold it is on a perfect straight line South from the spot it was buried from 1933 until 1952. I mean straight down to two decimal places of Latitude. If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried.
Best-Mike
Peerless67
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Mike, I believe that Wild horse mesa has had its name changed to Wild goose...
I do have a serious question though, From this quote.
"If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried."
I am sure all will agree, that statement pretty much pin points the original place the gold was buried ?
If we go along with the 17 tons story as published, that would mean its pretty close to the caretakers ranch ?
With such a small target area, would you agree that locating an air strip should be a fairly easy exercise ?
I do have a serious question though, From this quote.
"If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried."
I am sure all will agree, that statement pretty much pin points the original place the gold was buried ?
If we go along with the 17 tons story as published, that would mean its pretty close to the caretakers ranch ?
With such a small target area, would you agree that locating an air strip should be a fairly easy exercise ?
gollum
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Peerless67 said:Mike, I believe that Wild horse mesa has had its name changed to Wild goose...
I do have a serious question though, From this quote.
"If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried."
I am sure all will agree, that statement pretty much pin points the original place the gold was buried ?
If we go along with the 17 tons story as published, that would mean its pretty close to the caretakers ranch ?
With such a small target area, would you agree that locating an air strip should be a fairly easy exercise ?
Come on,
I wouldn't make it THAT easy would I? It leaves a good bit of area to look at. Also; something used as an airstrip in 1933 would not necessarily look the same in 2010. All I will say is that I am slam dunk until 1952. After that, I'm all done except for speculation.
Just like with the (Peralta) Stone Maps. I am slam dunk from 1949 until now. Can't attribute anything before then.
Why do you say that Wild Horse is a Wild Goose Chase? I think so, but I can't say for certain. Like I said, it is very big coincidence that Wild Horse is EXACTLY South from the original hiding place. In all of the world, it just happens to be right there. Not 20 degrees off. Not 10 degrees off. Not 5 degrees off. Right there.
Best-Mike
Peerless67
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Mike, look at the map below, do you agree that the yellow circle is the area of the 4 corners where the gold was supposed to have been delivered ?
If so you can see I have drawn 2 red lines that intersect over Wild horse mesa .. Jacarilla [sp]
The 2 red lines run N-S and approx E-W
Where am I going wrong ?
If so you can see I have drawn 2 red lines that intersect over Wild horse mesa .. Jacarilla [sp]
The 2 red lines run N-S and approx E-W
Where am I going wrong ?
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gollum
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I know he said it was on Jicarilla Res, but there is another Wild Horse Mesa in NM, and it is directly South of hideout #1.
I knew that the gold was taken South from where it was in 1952. I looked for another Wild Horse Mesa, and found one. Not on Jicarilla Res. When I found more than one WHM in NM, I didn't give the story too much thought until I saw that one of them was EXACTLY South.
HINT: Its' in Gila National Forest. A place where it would be illegal to remove the gold without Treasure Trove Permit. HHHMMMMM.
..............OR...............it could all be BS. HAHAHA
Best-Mike
I knew that the gold was taken South from where it was in 1952. I looked for another Wild Horse Mesa, and found one. Not on Jicarilla Res. When I found more than one WHM in NM, I didn't give the story too much thought until I saw that one of them was EXACTLY South.
HINT: Its' in Gila National Forest. A place where it would be illegal to remove the gold without Treasure Trove Permit. HHHMMMMM.
..............OR...............it could all be BS. HAHAHA
Best-Mike
gollum
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Oh, and that yellow circle around Shiprock is in the wrong place.
Mike
Mike
Peerless67
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Mike, you specifically mentioned Purchase in your post, and so I went with his/your location.
Quote: "If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried."
There are actually a further 2 Wild horse mesa's in NM as you mentioned Gila, they are both inside of Gila and a short distance apart.
With regard to the yellow circle, it encompasses a large area of NM including shiprock the rock, farmington, and shiprock the town.
It was a general area to show there was no north- south line between that general area and purchase's Wild horse mesa, since that was the one you mentioned in your post.
Besides you already know I do not believe the whole 4 corners part of the story anyway, and im not even going to be drawn on Purchase's claims.
Quote: "If you take a ruler and draw a line from the Mesa where Purchase said he found his gold straight North, your line will run right over the Mesa where the gold was initially buried."
There are actually a further 2 Wild horse mesa's in NM as you mentioned Gila, they are both inside of Gila and a short distance apart.
With regard to the yellow circle, it encompasses a large area of NM including shiprock the rock, farmington, and shiprock the town.
It was a general area to show there was no north- south line between that general area and purchase's Wild horse mesa, since that was the one you mentioned in your post.
Besides you already know I do not believe the whole 4 corners part of the story anyway, and im not even going to be drawn on Purchase's claims.
Springfield
Silver Member
gollum said:
Wow, this is getting interesting.
There are three Wild Horse Mesas in the SW portion of New Mexico. I've actually been to all three - access is easy. I never gave much thought to the duplicated names before, but just for s&g, I plotted up the locations of all three and came up with quite an unexpected and amazing result. The three locations (approximate coordinates N32°45', W108°35'; N33°,00°, W108°35'; and N33°,00°, W108°13') form a nice right triangle with both small legs running close to north-south and east-west, 20.0 miles in length. The odds of such a pattern formed by three points are minute unless it was well thought out to begin with. Amazing to say the least.
I don't know what this has to do with the 4-Corners legend, if anything. If you'll check my previous posts on the topic, you'll see that I think that the story as told is hogwash - but possibly a cover story for something else. I intend to do some research on the histories of the three Wild Horse Mesas. Mike, I don't know where you came up with this, but you may be onto something, based on nothing more than geometry so far.
Peerless67
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Springfield
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Peerless67 said:
20.0 miles north of B and 20.0 miles west of C is the third WHM forming the triangle. Your point A is a fourth WHM.
Peerless67
Hero Member
Point A is where Purchase claims to have recovered the gold.
Apart from that claim no WHMs are attributed to the story.
I think Mike just used the wrong WHM when he made his post as he mentioned the WHM where Purchase made the recovery, but then attributed it to one of the 3 in Gila. A genuine error, however an error nonetheless.
Apart from that claim no WHMs are attributed to the story.
I think Mike just used the wrong WHM when he made his post as he mentioned the WHM where Purchase made the recovery, but then attributed it to one of the 3 in Gila. A genuine error, however an error nonetheless.
Peerless67
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Quote Mike: "Leon Trabuco did exist. His son is still with us."
Mike you may recall a post I made on this thread a while ago. I expressly stated that there are many Leon Trabucos. I also stated that the problem is none of them fit the profile (the profile offered up in the stories)
Therefore it is not beyond the realm of possibility that you indeed know a son of a Leon Trabuco.
One thing that amazes me is why "the son" has not made himself conspicuous. I mean if my dad had hoarded a vast fortune of gold that had remained undiscovered, you can bet your life I would make it clear that I was his son and therefore his rightful hier.
There is also a little matter of historical fact that there never was a Trabuco who owned tens of millions of acres of land, and millions of head of cattle, and 100s of thousands of horses not to mention most of chihuahua and gold mines.
There is only one family that meets that profile from the period, and I am sure the more qualified historians among us might be able to confirm that the families name was Terazzas / Creal [sp].
Of course if your "son" really is from such a wealthy family as the Trabucos then maybe he is not interested in claiming the three quarters of a billion dollars the gold is worth today.
There is also the possibility that every person whos fathers name was Leon Trabuco (and there are many of them) will come forward to claim that they are the son/daughter of "the Leon Trabuco of 17 tons fame".
Then there is another difficulty, such a wealthy historical family....without any history
Gary
Mike you may recall a post I made on this thread a while ago. I expressly stated that there are many Leon Trabucos. I also stated that the problem is none of them fit the profile (the profile offered up in the stories)
Therefore it is not beyond the realm of possibility that you indeed know a son of a Leon Trabuco.
One thing that amazes me is why "the son" has not made himself conspicuous. I mean if my dad had hoarded a vast fortune of gold that had remained undiscovered, you can bet your life I would make it clear that I was his son and therefore his rightful hier.
There is also a little matter of historical fact that there never was a Trabuco who owned tens of millions of acres of land, and millions of head of cattle, and 100s of thousands of horses not to mention most of chihuahua and gold mines.
There is only one family that meets that profile from the period, and I am sure the more qualified historians among us might be able to confirm that the families name was Terazzas / Creal [sp].
Of course if your "son" really is from such a wealthy family as the Trabucos then maybe he is not interested in claiming the three quarters of a billion dollars the gold is worth today.
There is also the possibility that every person whos fathers name was Leon Trabuco (and there are many of them) will come forward to claim that they are the son/daughter of "the Leon Trabuco of 17 tons fame".
Then there is another difficulty, such a wealthy historical family....without any history
Gary
gollum
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An heir to Leon Trabuco would be an heir to what? Trabuco was not an owner of the gold. He was an attorney who had tried to negotiate the sale. The only thing the son of Trabuco may be entitled to would be his father's fee. That might not even be the case because Trabuco did not effectively negotiate anything. He did not successfully do what he was hired to do. By account of one of the real owners' heirs he may not be entitled to anything.
Also, I will ask the same question again: An heir to Leon Trabuco would be an heir to what? Has anybody legally recovered any of that gold yet? Not to my knowledge. Why come forward now before anything is found? If I were him, I would have a great attorney, and we would be sitting in the background quietly until somebody really found it.
The reason I know he exists is because he was one of the people questioned by investigators before the Grand Jury Trial. Everything about where he lives was redacted except that he lived (in 1952) in Los Angeles.
Best-Mike
Also, I will ask the same question again: An heir to Leon Trabuco would be an heir to what? Has anybody legally recovered any of that gold yet? Not to my knowledge. Why come forward now before anything is found? If I were him, I would have a great attorney, and we would be sitting in the background quietly until somebody really found it.
The reason I know he exists is because he was one of the people questioned by investigators before the Grand Jury Trial. Everything about where he lives was redacted except that he lived (in 1952) in Los Angeles.
Best-Mike
Peerless67
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Mike, So Trabuco is no longer a millionaire cattle rancher from Mexico. He is an LA lawyer working for the group in the 1950s.
Its strange but the only mention of any law firm on any official paperwork is Moore, Webster and Lindelof of Los Angeles, The very same law firm that Prentiss Moore was a partner in.
However now that you mention REDACTED paperwork I see where the name comes in to play, unfortunately it is not a persons name at all, but a place name where one of those questioned was from.
Trabuco Canyon in Los Angeles.
But for the sake of curiosity I will endevour to find the existence of any lawyer called Trabuco who practiced in LA in the 1950s. And I will post my findings.
Gary
Its strange but the only mention of any law firm on any official paperwork is Moore, Webster and Lindelof of Los Angeles, The very same law firm that Prentiss Moore was a partner in.
However now that you mention REDACTED paperwork I see where the name comes in to play, unfortunately it is not a persons name at all, but a place name where one of those questioned was from.
Trabuco Canyon in Los Angeles.
But for the sake of curiosity I will endevour to find the existence of any lawyer called Trabuco who practiced in LA in the 1950s. And I will post my findings.
Gary
