174 lbs of BAD NEWS!

[Fullpan]

You prospectors in Mother Lode country of Calf., be aware and be prepared - just sayin


Mountain Lion Mountain Democrat

 

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[pmgsourdough]

The largest lion that has been harvested in the black hills this season was a 7 year old male that weighed 136 pounds. Season ends on march 31st or until 100 cats have been killed. So far 46 lion have been taken. The problem with the season is that mothers are killed who are caring for and teaching cubs. This creates a problem, as cubs are being left. to teach and care for themselves. 99% of the time, these cubs in the black hills are the ones who have encounters with humans or attack pets. Lion cubs are known to stay with their mother for 2 years or more. You can see the problem. They are never given the chance to learn to avoid humans by their mother.

My only fear in the black hills are hunters that will shoot at anything that moves and the prairie rattlesnake. The drought here in western south dakota is causing the snakes to moveinto the hills in search of water. A friend was bitten last year near spearfish canyon as he stepped out of his car. Spent 3 days in the hospital.

 

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[GrayCloud]

Two friends of mine from the Gridley, Ca area, that are also Lost Dutchmen members, had a cat encounter while metal detecting. They were up in the hills and there was a light snow falling. One was detecting a hundred yards or so behind the other and came up on cat tracks following his partners tracks. He started yelling and broke out in a run to the other man, who had earphones on and of course did not hear him at first. He said he had not crossed any tracks, so the cat definitly was tracking him. Pat said they wasted no time vacating their nugget hunt that day.
Cats will stalk and attack. Don't forget the ole boy that lived up in the hills and got killed in his trailor by a cat just a little while back.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I play poker with Dave Carlson and his wife Nellie, at the American Legion Post in Yarnell, when I'm in Arizona. Home Page I have seen a lot of lions in the Weaver and Bradshaw Mountains - at a distance, and one way to close for comfort! Yes, I did soil myself a little while drawing and shooting the animal, and then sat there shaking for about the next 15-minutes. Beautiful animals when they are not 10-feet away with their ears flat and hissing at you!

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

Cougars don't ever take the wind into account. If your in a canyon you can smell them coming, most of the time that is and if your not a smoker... Best bet... ALWAYS have a dog and a sidearm with you. Wolves, cougars Bear, will always go for the dog first and then you can get to your sidearm.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

N8Longly,

If anyone was killed by a mountain lion in California, in the recent past, you would be able to find it with a search of online records of local newspapers. Actually any newspapers of California would have articles on it.

We have quite a few up here in Del Norte Co., Ca. Below is a link to one killed by locals after it killed 8 goats belonging to a friend of mine 12 years ago.

MOUNTAIN LION HUNTED, KILLED AFTER ATTACKING HERD OF GOATS | Crescent City California News, Sports, & Weather | The Triplicate

I'll write more about my own experiences seeing these cats later. Have to hit the rack and get some rest before a 12 hour shift keeping the roads clear on the north coast tomorrow. More storm are a coming.

Mike

It was probably a passalong story from this actual attack that happened not far from where I was guiding that year.

Officers kill mountain lion that clawed Idaho boy | Reuters

 

[DizzyDigger]

Cougars don't ever take the wind into account. If your in a canyon you can smell them coming, most of the time that is and if your not a smoker... Best bet... ALWAYS have a dog and a sidearm with you. Wolves, cougars Bear, will always go for the dog first and then you can get to your sidearm.

They don't? I've sat and watched several cougars over the years work from my upwind to downwind
position before they came in closer to the sound of the predator call I was blowing. Cat's are predators,
and will absolutely use the wind and any cover to their advantage. Livestock and the cats average
prey (from small rodents up to deer) can smell too, and if the cat wants to eat he'll use the wind
to his advantage. Most bears will do the same thing if they have intentions of making a meal of you.

Just because a big cat is watching you from a distance does not make that cat a threat, it makes
it a cat to keep an eye on. He/she could just be curious about what you're doing in his "front room",
and once they figure out if you are not a danger they generally just move along to less populated
area of their range.

Kuger has the best suggestion....keep a dog with you. Barking dogs and cats just don't mix well,
but also keep an eye on the pooch lest the cat choose it for supper!

Any cat that that shows itself more than 100 yards from you is typically not going to
be a threat..they're just curious as to what's making all the noise. It would be an absolute last
resort if I had to kill the cat, as he may just be protecting his hunting grounds, or young, etc.
Better for you to leave the area (and the cat alive!), head a few miles down the road and come
back some other time when the cats off in another part of his range. Less paperwork and danger
for you and your party, and the cat can go on living his life doing whatever it is that cats like to do.

Dizz

 

[kuger]

The largest lion that has been harvested in the black hills this season was a 7 year old male that weighed 136 pounds. Season ends on march 31st or until 100 cats have been killed. So far 46 lion have been taken. The problem with the season is that mothers are killed who are caring for and teaching cubs. This creates a problem, as cubs are being left. to teach and care for themselves. 99% of the time, these cubs in the black hills are the ones who have encounters with humans or attack pets. Lion cubs are known to stay with their mother for 2 years or more. You can see the problem. They are never given the chance to learn to avoid humans by their mother.

My only fear in the black hills are hunters that will shoot at anything that moves and the prairie rattlesnake. The drought here in western south dakota is causing the snakes to moveinto the hills in search of water. A friend was bitten last year near spearfish canyon as he stepped out of his car. Spent 3 days in the hospital.

The problem with that is lions have no breeding season,they come into heat any time of the year,and a Tom Lion will kill cubs so the female will come into season again.Cubs will SOMETIMES stay with the mother for up to three years but not always.Often times she will run them off(I have seen females with 5 year old cubs in tow)and yes,ones that have not been taught to hunt,or just are not good at it are the dangerous ones(%95 of all lions that have attacked humans were adolescent,or in elderly state of which were not able to pursue normal prey.
Good lion hunters can tell the difference between a female and a male and will not shoot a female,especially is she is lactating (has cubs)it can sometimes be hard to tell,so its just best policy not to kill any female if you dont have to.By keeping the Tom population in check,alows the mother to have influence on the cubs longer,and ensures the strongest healthiest males are doing the breeding for a well balanced,managed population.Lions dont have natural enemies,but wolves are really effecting there habits.Female lions with cubs are having there kills overtaken by wolves right now and the cubs are starving,this is something we have not witnessed in places where the two co habitate,but its happening here now...talk about sad!!

 

[kuger]

Cougars don't ever take the wind into account. If your in a canyon you can smell them coming, most of the time that is and if your not a smoker... Best bet... ALWAYS have a dog and a sidearm with you. Wolves, cougars Bear, will always go for the dog first and then you can get to your sidearm.

To say any wild animal doesnt use every sense it has is ludicrous,felines do use their eyessight more than any,but bet your tail end they use that nose and ears!!Bears can not see well,and hear better than you and I,BUT they can smell new born fawn deer.....not many animals can do that,a bears sense of smell is said to be comparable to a bloodhound

 

[DizzyDigger]

Kuger: Do you feel that "Pursuit Only" chasing with hounds helps to keep the large
predator population back in the hills, and out of peoples backyards?

I know that Calif. has got to be literally crawling with a large Cougar population,
as the hunting ban placed many years ago has not only allowed the cats to thrive, but
also to expand as a population. Sounds great, BUT, cougars generally run solo, and
maintain a rather large territory(especially Toms). A single cougar may keep as much
as 50 SQUARE MILES as it's personal territory, and just like your house cat it will
fight like hell to run off other trespassing cats.

Quite often the younger cats moving out on their own have to travel huge distances to
find their own turf (that they can survive on), or, they begin to habitat closer to civilization
as they've no where else to go. This is when house cats, kids and small dogs are most at risk
as that big kitty has to eat to survive, and they aren't much for vegetables..lol.

We are lucky here in most of the Continental US, but in so many other countries (plus
a few US states) humans are far from being the top of the food chain!

Dizz

 

[kuger]

Dizzy....I want to compliment you on your knowledge of lions ......it shows ya know what your talking about...

I held a "pursuit",permit here in Calif when I worked for the Gov. which allowed me to keep my dogs in tune and shape.There has never been any study done on that but one would think it would benefit to some degree.The issue aside from lack of fear of man,is that the deer populations are no where near what they were 25 years ago(pretty sad,that F&G still allows the take of two bucks per hunter)and deer are the lions main food source(A full grown lion needs equal to a deer a week to sustain)The deer have adapted to the lush landscaping people have now(why live in the woods where its a struggle to find what you need)they have lush browse,water,cover,and have learned that people/dogs offer a degree of protection,so they dont leave....they live in the neighborhoods(this is why people that are never up in the mountains here where there used to be deer every where,but not now....think that there is 10 deer in my yard that never used to be,so there must be 5 times that many in the mtns......wrong!The majority are in town!So.....The lions need to eat,and they know that deer are what they need,so they too are evolving to not fear man,why should they?They have no reason to,so they come down,and are growing used to sights sounds and smells of people,dogs bark,but offer no harm(chase)So you now have a super predator that has no fear of man,and lions are opportunists,man is on the menu if need be.People do not realize(because the info is not readily givin up,just how many lions are killed each year in Cali. that are posing direct threat to people,and or have preyed on livestock and are killed on Depredation.If not for this behind the scenes,its guaranteed there would be more attacks/fatalities.This state a long with many others has lost its target of managing wildlife and have givin in to the emotion self benefitting special interest groups

 

[wa-au-nut]

I can be quite un nerving to spend some time tracking a deer or elk and start walking back and find a cat has been tracking YOU! Has happened to me more times than I care to think about. Yep Cats a getting used to manand man(or child) can be on the menu!

 

[wa-au-nut]

I can be quite un nerving to spend some time tracking a deer or elk and start walking back and find a cat has been tracking YOU! Has happened to me more times than I care to think about. Yep Cats a getting used to manand man(or child) can be on the menu!

 

[kuger]

The problem with that is lions have no breeding season,they come into heat any time of the year,and a Tom Lion will kill cubs so the female will come into season again.Cubs will SOMETIMES stay with the mother for up to three years but not always.Often times she will run them off(I have seen females with 5 year old cubs in tow)and yes,ones that have not been taught to hunt,or just are not good at it are the dangerous ones(%95 of all lions that have attacked humans were adolescent,or in elderly state of which were not able to pursue normal prey.
Good lion hunters can tell the difference between a female and a male and will not shoot a female,especially is she is lactating (has cubs)it can sometimes be hard to tell,so its just best policy not to kill any female if you dont have to.By keeping the Tom population in check,alows the mother to have influence on the cubs longer,and ensures the strongest healthiest males are doing the breeding for a well balanced,managed population.Lions dont have natural enemies,but wolves are really effecting there habits.Female lions with cubs are having there kills overtaken by wolves right now and the cubs are starving,this is something we have not witnessed in places where the two co habitate,but its happening here now...talk about sad!!

...I need to add,that of course females must be taken to have a well balanced population,but the utmost care should be taken to ensure she is not caring for dependent young.The majority of Depredation taken cats(livestock killers)are female....that need to kill more to feed young

 

[GrayCloud]

Anybody have the photo of the five cougars together on a single kill at the lake landing just west of Oriville Ca? I heard a cugar take down a deer about five miles from that same location one night back in 2009. It took place right next to a gas compressor station with all the noise and lights of a pump station.

 

[kuger]

Anybody have the photo of the five cougars together on a single kill at the lake landing just west of Oriville Ca? I heard a cugar take down a deer about five miles from that same location one night back in 2009. It took place right next to a gas compressor station with all the noise and lights of a pump station.

.....I dont have that one,but I have a pic of several on a water troth......mega bad news when you have that many on a kill....they are pretty much solitary animals aside from a female with her two cubs....

 

[GrayCloud]

Yeah Kugar you are right, that was a rare site and the photo captions also stated that. I will see if I can find it on Facebook and repost.

 

[neighbors75]

always take a dog to watch out for critters, I do every time I go out. especially in the territory where it is possible to be eaten by a cat or bear.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

They don't? I've sat and watched several cougars over the years work from my upwind to downwind
position before they came in closer to the sound of the predator call I was blowing. ////

Kuger has the best suggestion....keep a dog with you. Barking dogs and cats just don't mix well,
but also keep an eye on the pooch lest the cat choose it for supper!

Less paperwork and danger
for you and your party, and the cat can go on living his life doing whatever it is that cats like to do.

Dizz

You stated it when you watched that cat move up and down wind. See they use their sense of smell and will work both in and out of the path of air travel. They arent smart enough to understand it.

Keeping a dog with you is a great defense. The best probably. Like I said cats arent smart enough to to avoid being smelled, especially in any type of canyon. The wind currents usually swirl and will give them away. If you don't smell them your dog will.

Last the only paperwork you should be worried about in the mountains is toilet paper. Stop worrying about live and let live. I follow the 3 S's rule. Shoot, Shovel, and SHUT UP.

I have been a guide in Idaho for more years than I wish to count and the behavior you calif's have about cats is pure nonsense. Shoot them Hunt them and they will retreat to the areas where Man doesn't like to go and there will be a LOT less of your poor little puppies and kitties going missing every year LOL.

The problem that we here in Idaho are experiencing is Wolves. The transplanted animals are running in packs of 30 plus and breeding at a rate that is uncontainable with our current management program. We need to treat them like the coyotes... open season all year long, no tag required.

 

[walldo]

I live in Washington state. Grew up on the eastern side of the state. More rural. My rule is if a cat is with in pistol range it's come to its end. I have yet to come in contact with the wolves., but when it does happen same rule. Live a let live is a good concept , but remember it is a concept.

 

[DizzyDigger]

1) You stated it when you watched that cat move up and down wind. See they use
their sense of smell and will work both in and out of the path of air travel. They aren't
smart enough to understand it.

2) Last the only paperwork you should be worried about in the mountains is toilet paper. Stop worrying about
live and let live. I follow the 3 S's rule. Shoot, Shovel, and SHUT UP.
I have been a guide in Idaho for more years than I wish to count and the behavior you calif's have about cats is pure
nonsense. Shoot them Hunt them and they will retreat to the areas where Man doesn't like to go and there will be a LOT
less of your poor little puppies and kitties going missing every year LOL.

I think you've got me confused with another person on that quote, and how/why the cat uses his sense
of smell to his benefit. I disagree about the "not smart enough" part. Hunted and tracked a lot of cats
that were damn smart, and as a guide I have little doubt that you've chased a few smart ones yourself.

As for being from "Calif", well..I'm afraid you've been watching too many Hollywood TV shows. I was
born and grew up in a small horse ranching community set back in the foothills of Orange and
Riverside counties. This was hot, dry country in the Summer, and we never once took a day off work
cause it was too hot. From 16 on I've been hunting predators, be they a calf eating Coyote, lamb
stealin' Badger to the Fox or Bobcat raiding the chicken house. In the last 35 years I've called in and
shot nearly a thousand coyotes, hundreds of bobcat and a laundry list of other fur bearing
meat eaters. Spent several years hunting with an ADC Trapper down in S. Oregon, and in that
time we had to shoot far more domestic dogs that were killing sheep than any other critter. In
most cases the ranchers would think we were nuts when we told 'em it was free-roaming domestic
dogs out running in packs and not a cougar or coyote.

That's not to say we didn't have to hunt down anything else, but when it was a wild critter doing the
killin' we wanted to make damn sure we downed the "PA", or problem animal. I think Herb was
half-human and half-wildman...lol. More than once I knew him to spend days on end tracking
a single cougar all over hell's half-acre just to be sure he got the right cat, and not the ones
staying in the hills and doing their job to keep the deep population in check. That's the man
I learned to trap from, and he was the best there was at working with critters but he never
cared much for people...at all. Unfortunately, he's gone on ahead now and I sure do miss
his fine meals (which all looked and tasted the same, no matter the ingredients..lol)

I've killed far more than my share of critters, and just because I don't care to take another
animals life unless there is no other option does not make me the least bit like some
ARA who has entirely different motivations than what I personally do. I've had cougar pop out
of a shrub 20 feet in front of me as I sat there working a predator call. I had a 12ga. pointed
at his head, and it could have gone either way for a few minutes there..lol Fortunately, I didn't
have to kill that one, either. Cougar are a "Mountain Man's Veal", and I've chowed on more
than one, but for me I never saw the reason to shoot one for meat when a nice fat 2yo.
doe would go a lot further.

You feel the way you do based on your own motivations and reasoning and there ain't
a damn thing wrong with that. Still, just because someone disagrees with you, and has
formed their own opinions based on their own years of personal experience does not
necessarily place us on opposing sides of an issue. We just look at it differently.

All the best to ya, and hope a good season lies ahead for you this Fall.