1793 Capped liberty cent

[GKman]

What a great father's day find ...
Found it in a field that was recently turned over to plant crops

 

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[jerseyben]

How would it be foolish of the O.P. to spend money to preserve a scarce piece of history and boost it's value at the same time?


Frank

I think most folks would agree that anyone who digs alot of coppers prefers to clean them "DIY" rather than send them out for professional cleaning.

 

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[steelheadwill]

Grats GK! the field was pretty kind to that coppa

 

[steelheadwill]

I think most folks would agree that anyone who digs alot of coppers prefers to clean them "DIY" rather than send them out for professional cleaning.

Agreed, I've seen some stripped horror shows from that big slabbers 'conservation service',
in addition, it's gonna be labelled 'enviro damage' and you'll never handle it again once it's in the coffin.
If it were to be offered for sale, knowledgeable collectors buy the coin not the holder.
The rare coins I recover are generally placed as dug in Air-tites with the padded insert.
Jeez I wanna dig one of those now

 

[steelheadwill]

Very scarce relating to the numbers, but a bit deceiving because most coppers we dig don't have the base price of this one. It's much better to dig the most common variety of a very high value and desired coin than to dig the rarest variety of a lower valued type.

Good stuff IP. I think someone out there should read this reply more carefully

 

[ATwardo223]

Awesome find!! That's amazing!

 

[lucky larry]

Over the years my interest in md has waxed and waned. Seeing, and reading, about your find - and the many other finds posted by fellow enthusiast - reminds me why this is such a great hobby/vocation/obsession...
Congrats and thank you!

 

[steelheadwill]

Over the years my interest in md has waxed and waned. Seeing, and reading, about your find - and the many other finds posted by fellow enthusiast - reminds me why this is such a great hobby/vocation/obsession...
Congrats and thank you!

Like your reply! I like to think of research and recovery as a 'Profession'
Awesome Coin Find ! looking forward to seeing more recoveries

 

[bullshrink]

Great find!

 

[oldsalty19]

 

[Jim of PA]

 

[Iron Patch]

I think most folks would agree that anyone who digs alot of coppers prefers to clean them "DIY" rather than send them out for professional cleaning.

It doesn't matter how many coppers a person digs because all I see on this coin is dirt. And if that's the case, a professional cleaning is soap, water, and a little brushing. This would probably be the worst type of condition to send off for someone to clean, and I certainly wouldn't take any chances thinking of that nice green patina 1877 indian that a "professional" totally destroyed.... and I mean destroyed. If you seen that post a couple of years ago you will know what I mean.

 

[I Dig Jesus]

Can't touch that by a long shot, that my friend is just about as cool as it gets, good job, and we hate you. (just kidding!) Seriously, Very cool find!

 

[RamsesII]

Awesome find! Though, I'm mainly jealous you got to MD with Seth Rogan.

 

[huntsman53]

Good stuff IP. I think someone out there should read this reply more carefully

I read the reply very carefully several times and responded with my honest opinion! Most common date and variety Large Cents of very high value don't have a base value in VF-30 or for some, even in EF-40 that the O.P.'s coin has even in lower grades. While we must be realistic in this hobby and only dream of ever finding a coin such as the O.P. found, most would rather only find two or three such coins than 100 Large Cents of common date and variety! That is just my personal opinion but I feel that quite a few others in this hobby would agree. It is similar to finding Clad coinage time after time on every metal detecting trip which could amount into hundreds and hundreds of coins and gets to be old habit and depressing but then, you find your first Silver coin and it totally makes your day and seems worth more than all of your other finds combined.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

It doesn't matter how many coppers a person digs because all I see on this coin is dirt. And if that's the case, a professional cleaning is soap, water, and a little brushing. This would probably be the worst type of condition to send off for someone to clean, and I certainly wouldn't take any chances thinking of that nice green patina 1877 indian that a "professional" totally destroyed.... and I mean destroyed. If you seen that post a couple of years ago you will know what I mean.

I grant you that there is a risk in sending off a coin for preservation but that is why that PCGS, NGC and other Third Party Grading Services that have divisions that offer coin preservation/conservation, insure the customer's coin for it's value. If they damage the coin during conservation, certification, grading and slabbing, they will purchase the coin from the customer at it's true value. I buy, sell and trade coins as part of my' small business selling collectibles and I have seen nightmare scenarios of cleaned coins by conservations services but have seen many more, cleaned by private individuals that thought they knew what they were doing when they cleaned a coin. In fact, I have seen rare coins that were valued in the tens of thousands of dollars, reduced in value to mere hundreds of dollars because the owner thought that he/she had to clean the coin before offering it for sale. One of those was an 1895 Proof Morgan Silver Dollar, the rarest and most valuable Silver Dollar in the Series. While soap and water can and will do wonders for some coins, it does not conserve the coins and protect them from further deterioration which conservation services do! Also, you never clean a coin with a brush as it will leave fine brush lines on the surfaces of the coin. If you are going to clean coins such as large Coppers, then after a light bath in soap and water, rinsing and patting dry with a soft towel, you should soak it in mineral oil for up to 3 weeks, rotating the coin every 3rd or 4th day to insure good saturation of the mineral oil into the dirt, grime and some of the corrosion to loosen it. After having soaked for the 3 weeks, remove the coin and remove the dirt, grime and any loose corrosion with a green Rose Thorn (*), rinse with water and pat dry with a soft towel. If the coin still has unwanted dirt and grime, then place it back into the mineral oil for a week or two and repeat the above. Once finished with the cleaning, pat the coin totally dry with a soft towel and place it in a protective holder. (*)As footnote: A green Rose Thorn will not scratch or damage the surface of a Copper coin. If you see such on a Copper coin, then it is scratches through dirt and grime that still remains on the surface of the coin.


Frank

 

[Iron Patch]

I grant you that there is a risk in sending off a coin for preservation but that is why that PCGS, NGC and other Third Party Grading Services that have divisions that offer coin preservation/conservation, insure the customer's coin for it's value. If they damage the coin during conservation, certification, grading and slabbing, they will purchase the coin from the customer at it's true value. I buy, sell and trade coins as part of my' small business selling collectibles and I have seen nightmare scenarios of cleaned coins by conservations services but have seen many more, cleaned by private individuals that thought they knew what they were doing when they cleaned a coin. In fact, I have seen rare coins that were valued in the tens of thousands of dollars, reduced in value to mere hundreds of dollars because the owner thought that he/she had to clean the coin before offering it for sale. One of those was an 1895 Proof Morgan Silver Dollar, the rarest and most valuable Silver Dollar in the Series. While soap and water can and will do wonders for some coins, it does not conserve the coins and protect them from further deterioration which conservation services do! Also, you never clean a coin with a brush as it will leave fine brush lines on the surfaces of the coin. If you are going to clean coins such as large Coppers, then after a light bath in soap and water, rinsing and patting dry with a soft towel, you should soak it in mineral oil for up to 3 weeks, rotating the coin every 3rd or 4th day to insure good saturation of the mineral oil into the dirt, grime and some of the corrosion to loosen it. After having soaked for the 3 weeks, remove the coin and remove the dirt, grime and any loose corrosion with a green Rose Thorn (*), rinse with water and pat dry with a soft towel. If the coin still has unwanted dirt and grime, then place it back into the mineral oil for a week or two and repeat the above. Once finished with the cleaning, pat the coin totally dry with a soft towel and place it in a protective holder. (*)As footnote: A green Rose Thorn will not scratch or damage the surface of a Copper coin. If you see such on a Copper coin, then it is scratches through dirt and grime that still remains on the surface of the coin.


Frank

Well you can believe all that for a dug coin, but I disagree. The experts won't do anything different that the finder can't do at home in under 5 minutes because it will probably take very little to make that coin as good as it will ever be. The only thing that appears to be wrong with the coin at this point is the dirt, and had it been washed off like almost every coin we see posted we wouldn't even be talking about a "professional cleaning"... because there would be nothing to clean! Maybe there's some corrosion, and that can be dealt with, but as far as I can see it just looks like dirt. Once the foreign material is gone there's several ways to seal it, if that's what is preferred, but you don't do that until your content with the cleaning, and you can't be content until you remove the dirt and see what's there. I buy and sell coins for a living and have been for the past 13 years, and that's a lot of both dug and non dug. The numismatic experts have their place, and I would never suggest that I'm one of them or even close, but dug is my world, not theirs, so I'll continue to stick to what I believe. This is a great find for detecting, but in the coin world it's definitely not a front page story, and you don't have to send it anywhere unless you feel the need to confirm it's genuine on paper. I'd already have that badboy cleaned, possibly sealed, and in a 2x2 locked away.... and be looking for the next!

 

[hogge]

These grading services are good for confirming the authenticity of a coin. Nothing more, as far as I'm concerned. Probably one of the biggest money making scams I've seen. I know.....because I have used them myself. Waste of time and money. Although alot of collectors still swear by these grading companies.....I will only use PCGS. Ta' hell with these second rate "conservatory" type companies. Most people that send a coin in for grading, are VERY disappointed in the outcome, and in the grade they get back. Actually reducing the value of what they thought they had. I had an 1859 seated quarter that I thought for sure would make AU-50 or 55. Instead....with no explanation mind you..., it graded VF-45. Knocking the price of the very next grade down by 1/2. By the way.....don't think for a second these coin, (and sports card), grading companies look at population reports, to manipulate prices of certain coins and sports cards. Would it have made any difference in my coin? NO! But then again, on rarer varieties,...Absolutely! At the time my graded VF-45 would have sold on EBAY for about $40-45. (I know this because it didn't reach my reserve of $55) So I cracked open the holder, took out the coin, and someone bought it for $70, ON EBAY. Quite a difference from some, so called experts opinion. And by the way....the $70 price was, at the time, still under the $100 value of VF-45. (I think it's higher now as I only have the 2010 RedBook. This brings up another thing.....These coin price books ARE A GUIDE ONLY!!! Most coins sell for quite a bit less than the guide prices them at. AND.....most people grade coins much....MUCH higher themselves than they actually have. Most in THIS forum don't want to hear the truth about his or her find. I'd soak that coin in warm distilled water for a few days to break up the dirt. Then warm some peroxide and use a Q-Tip to remove the dirt till I was satisfied. THEN....I would seal it with olive oil or vaseline. As IP said.....I would have already done it....and the coin would already be listed in "My signature" as SOLD!

 

[lookindown]

A nice post got turned into a pissing match over who knows whats best for a dirty coin...oh by the way OUTSTANDING find.

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

These grading services are Probably one of the biggest money making scams I've seen.
These coin price books ARE A GUIDE ONLY!!! Most coins sell for quite a bit less than the guide prices them at. AND.....most people grade coins much....MUCH higher themselves than they actually have.

I couldn't agree more. I can't believe how many people use, and recommend the use of these services. It must be either they can't grade themselves, or have shares (or some financial interest) in the company.

Regardless of ANY opinion, paid for or otherwise, the price of any item is always what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. And I've siad this before people who buy this caliber of coin do know how to grade, and do not buy the holder.

I did edit a lot out of your post Hogge, about your under graded coin, I have seen a few under graded coins in those coffins, and MANY, MANY over graded ones, it is just an "opinion" and is stated as such right on the holder. At about a 100 bucks for express turnaround service will not make the coin worth more as was stated.

 

[DirtDodger]

IP and Hogge gave their opinions...here's mine. Some think they can clean or conserve a coin like a professional... I disagree, but is one needed in this case? I say no.

As a collector first and digger second, I agree with IP on one thing, the only thing that needs done is remove the dirt. I would bet that is what most pro services with any knowledge of dig coins. I would not bush any surface of a coin, soak it pad it dry. Nothing else will help make the coin any better for collectors. The surface can never be returned to a undig state...PERIOD. It is what it is. The surface will be what most collectors consider rough or corroded. It will never bring the same price of a non-dig coin.

I 100% disagree that any substance should be applied to it. That is the surest way to decrease the value of any coin.
Olive oil or Vaseline should not be use. It simply will not make the coin better.

I see no reason to send it to a grading service, most will not grade it. Waste of time and money. Any collector of that coin should be able to tell it is real, if they can't they shouldn't be collecting them! They will see like I do a coin with strong details and rough surface that was in the ground and would value accordingly.

A great coin, one I would be happy to have dug or have in my collection.

PS....
One method that doesn't get mentioned but in some case can improve a coin's surface. I have seen it done to dug coins, it has less risk and takes much longer. The is a BIG DOWN side to it....but worth noting.
Old fashion wear. Yes, as much as it HURTS for a collector like me to admit, I seen people carry coins like Indians & LCs that were rough in a leather pouch to wear the surface down ever so slightly so it was not so rough. IT reduces the details, but recreates the surface to some extent as it would have in circulation. It is slow and needs to be carefully monitored so no more details are lost than needed. NOT needed or recommended for a coin like this.