A COOL pulltab! (Believe it or not)

SeaninNH · Feb 4, 2012

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I found a COOL pull tab the other day.

Does anyone know how old this is? I'd have to guess quite old because I've never seen one before.

Bigcypresshunter · Feb 14, 2012

SODABOTTLEBOB said:
In fact, it is also rare to find a pre 1900 soda bottle marked with a date like the one below. By the way, the bottle pictured below is mine which I purchased on eBay some time ago for $20.00.

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Here's the bottle ~ But where's the cap?

Cool bottle Bob. What do you think its worth now?

SODABOTTLEBOB · Feb 14, 2012

Big Cy ~

My bottle is not in perfect condition and is only worth the $20.00 I paid for it. But if I ever find one in near-mint condition I would likely pay up to $50.00 for one. However, most sellers have no idea that the bottle is currently the earliest known and confirmed example of a Crown Closure. Once they figure out what the have the price could go up substantially. And not because its really worth a whole lot more, but rather because the demand may increase as well. "Demand" often dictates a bottle's true value.

Here is a picture of "two" 1895 examples. Notice both are marked 1895 but that one has a crown closure and the other has a so called blob-top/cork-type closure. This picture in part confirms the companies transition from blob to crown in the same year. Otherwise both bottles are almost identical. Irregardless of the crown's so called rarity, I would currently never pay more than $50.00 for one. The funny part is, the blob top is currently worth a little more than the crown. Other than the one in this picture, I have never seen another blob, but I have seen several crowns.

Note: The ceramic lightning-type stopper with wire bail in the crown may or may not be original to the bottle. Sometimes these type of stoppers were added later. Although some companies did use them for awhile until they used up their supply, and then switched over to crowns.

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SODABOTTLEBOB · Feb 14, 2012

And since we're on the sbject of Murdock & Freeman bottles, you might as well see a couple of more. Shown here are a 1899 and a 1904. I also have pictures of a 1901-1902-1903. But since they all look alike, these two should suffice. The neat part is that very, very few companies dated their bottles like this. Embossed dates on bottles really didn't start to occur until the introduction of the Coca Cola hobbleskirt in 1915. And even then it wasn't consistant. I'd say consistant dating really began with the introduction of painted label (acl) soda bottles around 1934-1935. Prior to this it involves a lot of guesswork largely based on when a certain glass factory or individual bottler started business. That's where the word "circa" comes in handy, which means "circle" or "around." And that's also why a lot of straight-sided Coca Cola bottles are dated "circa" 1910, etc., because more often than not an "exact" date is simply not known. And that's part of what makes the Murdock & Freeman bottles so unique.

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SODABOTTLEBOB · Feb 14, 2012

Here's a "Watch For" tip for all my friends here on TreasureNet.com. The bottle pictured below is referred to as a Mountain Dew "Part Jug." If you ever find or see one for sale, especially if its in great shape and has it's original "screw" cap, grab it and don't look back! They were a limited distribution bottle and extremely rare. Mountain Dew collectors go nuts over them! The few I have seen listed on eBay sold for $3,000+ And don't think to yourself that you might find one on eBay for a steal, because you won't! I know of collectors who check eBay several times a day just to see if one turns up. So your best bet is to either find one laying around somewhere, or else in an antique shop where the dealer doesn't have a clue what they are worth. And, no! I don't have one "yet." But I hope to someday. Except I have no intetion of paying $3,000 for one. My best find so far in an antique shop was a turn-of-the-century $350 green medicinal bottle that I paid $8.00 for. I traded it last summer for a $200 soda bottle I have been looking for and wanting for several years.

Good luck. And please let us know if you are the lucky duck who finds a ...

~ Mountain Dew Party Jug ~

{ Quart Size }

"Yahoo ~ Mountain Dew"

SODABOTTLEBOB · Feb 14, 2012

Lastly ...

Here's the $350 green medicinal bottle I spoke about and only paid $8.00 for, plus the soda bottle I traded it for. The medicinal was in mint condition when I bought it and from "Eagle Drug" here in San Diego, California. The soda bottle is a "Country Boy" and also from San Diego. The Country Boy is currently my favorite soda bottle and also my most valuable. It's in mint condition and I wouldn't sell it even if someone offered me $350.00. It's considered extremely rare, especially in mint condition. Plus, I can really relate to the image on the bottle because I grew up in the country about 50 miles east of San Diego and used to run around barefoot during the summertime.

Hey Big Cy ~

I bet you didn't realize when you asked about the value of the Murdock & Freeman that you were opening up a can of worms. All I can say in response is that worms is what us country boys use for bait! :icon_thumleft:

Later alligator!

CountryBoyBob

chrisplay2004 · Mar 3, 2012

New type or old type? ...
I thought this would be easy but I only found one similar.
It seems like some newer types but is telltale of older by design.
It looks like you would pull up first then pull toward you to open, pic 3?
This is another find from a park that closed about 1970.
First pics of my find and last pic of online find...
I thought I was becoming an expert..but know I’m dating a pull tab again. :tongue3:

Keeping this going for knowledge about pull tabs.. :thumbsup:

Ed-NH · Mar 3, 2012

This has to be THE best pull tab thread I've ever seen. I am very much interested in this post as I found one of these caps years ago at a turn of the century defunct amusement park. Here is a picture of mine in case this helps to further solve the mystery. There is some writing along the side of the cap that says 'rip cap' etc...

Ed-NH · Mar 3, 2012

A couple more pics

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 3, 2012

SODABOTTLEBOB said:
Here's a "Watch For" tip for all my friends here on TreasureNet.com. The bottle pictured below is referred to as a Mountain Dew "Part Jug." If you ever find or see one for sale, especially if its in great shape and has it's original "screw" cap, grab it and don't look back! They were a limited distribution bottle and extremely rare. Mountain Dew collectors go nuts over them! The few I have seen listed on eBay sold for $3,000+ And don't think to yourself that you might find one on eBay for a steal, because you won't! I know of collectors who check eBay several times a day just to see if one turns up. So your best bet is to either find one laying around somewhere, or else in an antique shop where the dealer doesn't have a clue what they are worth. And, no! I don't have one "yet." But I hope to someday. Except I have no intetion of paying $3,000 for one. My best find so far in an antique shop was a turn-of-the-century $350 green medicinal bottle that I paid $8.00 for. I traded it last summer for a $200 soda bottle I have been looking for and wanting for several years.

Good luck. And please let us know if you are the lucky duck who finds a ...

~ Mountain Dew Party Jug ~

{ Quart Size }

"Yahoo ~ Mountain Dew"

I had no idea Bob. Im going to keep my eye out for this one. :icon_thumright:

Ill bet you could find that Mountain Dew under some rednecks front porch.

I have some sodas in my warehouse. Ill have to dig them out.

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 3, 2012

Ed-NH said:
This has to be THE best pull tab thread I've ever seen. I am very much interested in this post as I found one of these caps years ago at a turn of the century defunct amusement park. Here is a picture of mine in case this helps to further solve the mystery. There is some writing along the side of the cap that says 'rip cap' etc...

Thats the 1968 patent Bob found. I notice it says PATS PEND so it may be '66 when it was filed or '67 pending..

This could be a goto thread on pulltabs. :director:

Post your pulltabs here!! :director:

SODABOTTLEBOB · Mar 3, 2012

There is a little bit of irony going on here ...

If seaninMH's cap had those same patent numbers on it as Ed-NH's did, then the mystery might have been solved lickity-split the very first day (Feb 4, 2012). But I suppose its possible the numbers were not on it. :dontknow:

In any even, that second patent number on Ed-NH's cap is the first patent pictured below. And that patent in turn led me to the second patent pictured below, which is currently the earliest patent I am aware for a "Tear-off" type of bottle cap.

1st Picture ... 3,258,149 November 25, 1963 / June 28, 1966 (2nd # on Ed-NH cap).

2nd Picture .. 2,803,367 August 25, 1955 / August 20, 1957 (Earliest Tear-off cap / So far).

Note: The previous earliest "Tear-off" cap was the one I posted on reply #29 and was dated ... 1961 / 1964

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 3, 2012

Ed-NH said:
There is some writing along the side of the cap that says 'rip cap' etc...

Can you tell us exactly what it says?

Here is what I see:

PATS. 2??0611 & 3258149 FOR PATS. & PATS. PEND

SODABOTTLEBOB · Mar 3, 2012

SODABOTTLEBOB said:
I believe this is the one in question ...

( Which may have been slightly modified prior to production )

Patent Number 3,380,609

Filed April 14, 1966 ~ Approved April 30, 1968

SODABOTTLECAPBOB

I'm curious about that first number, too. It "might" be the one (3,380,609) I found earlier.

Although that sure doesn't look like an 09 on the end. Like Cy said, it looks like 11 :icon_scratch:

SODABOTTLEBOB · Mar 4, 2012

Here's a "possible" for the first number on Ed-NH's cap (From my file of bottle cap patents) ...

{ The dates are about right }

3120899

Dec 7, 1961 / Feb 11, 1964

Notice that the 9 in the 149 of the second patent number on Ed-NH's cap has a fairly straight edge on the right side. Maybe what looks like 611 is actually 899. :dontknow:

( I was around in 1961/64 and I sure don't recall any bottle caps like this one) :icon_scratch:

SODABOTTLEBOB · Mar 4, 2012

I won't post the patent pictures ~ But here are some more possible numbers ... (All of these patents are in some way related to and predate seaninNH's original cap)

( Of course, Ed-NH should be able to resolve the first number on his cap lickity-split ) :icon_thumleft:

2960954 ... 1960
3005433 ... 1961
3130056 ... 1964

If you are into patents, you should find the following link both helpful and interesting. I believe it was Big Cy who posted it on another thread. It is useful in many ways and in this particular instance will give you a clue about the chronological placement of 1960s patent numbers ...

http://www.oldstuffonly.com/patent_dates.asp

1960 Patent Numbers Between 2,919,443 - 2,966,680
1961 Patent Numbers Between 2,966,681 - 3,015,102
1962 Patent Numbers Between 3,015,103 - 3,070,800
1963 Patent Numbers Between 3,070,801 - 3,116,486
1964 Patent Numbers Between 3,116,487 - 3,163,864
1965 Patent Numbers Between 3,163,865 - 3,226,728
1966 Patent Numbers Between 3,226,729 - 3,295,142
1967 Patent Numbers Between 3,295,143 - 3,360,799
1968 Patent Numbers Between 3,360,800 - 3,419,906
1969 Patent Numbers Between 3,419,907 - 3,487,469

Ed-NH · Mar 4, 2012

OK, here is the microscopic writing that is printed along the rim of the pull tab:

Rip Cap (R) American Flange - N.Y. 215-1252 U.S. PATS. 2760611 (not sure on the 11 but I think it is 11) & 3251149 For PATS. & PATS PEND

Ed-NH · Mar 4, 2012

Since this is the pull tab post and you asked for more, here is another one that I found. It says "fight litter" and appears to be painted white on one side.

SODABOTTLEBOB · Mar 4, 2012

Ed-NH ~

Thanks for the follow up. Here's my response accordingly ...

1st. The last pull tab you posted shouldn't be too hard to date/identify. If nothing else the "String tied to a finger as a reminder not to litter" logo will be a place to start. :icon_thumleft:

2nd. The second patent number you said was 3251149 is not even remotely related to a cap/seal of any type. I conducted a search by which I replaced the red 3251149 with every possible alternative and the only number combination related to a cap/seal is the one I posted earlier, which is 3258149.

3rd. The first patent number you said might be 2760611 is not related to a cap/seal.

However, the following patent is related ...

Capseals For Container Closures

2760671

March 31, 1953 ~ August 28, 1956

In the text description of this patent it (in part) states the following ...

"Such seals would normally be removed by punching the tops therof and tearing along the score lines. Considering that these are made of relatively strong and thick material as against the sort of light weight material used in bottle caps."

Even though this so called "Capseal Closure" seems different than what we have been looking at thus far, the connection seems to be the "tearing" aspect of it. Another thing that makes this one special for me is that it replaces the one I posted previously (1955-57) as being the earliest of these type of caps/seals. I'm beginning to wonder now just how far back these cap/seals go until we actually find the true "first/earliest" one?

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2760611 vs 2760671