A few button ids if one can help...

Hidden_Realm · Oct 22, 2009

A few button id's if one can help...

Here are a couple of my buttons that I have yet to firmly id. The first was found years back and the other two are this summer's finds.

1. Was with war of 1812 buttons only site and 16mm in size. The back has a crown on the top and gilt written on bottom edge. Gold gilt remaining

2. "CM" in a center starburst design and "Firman & Westal, Strand" 24mm in size. Found at a homestead which also had war of 1812 buttons in one spot. Trace of silver gilt remaining

3. 10th Regiment of some sort, but not sure which. Found at an war of 1812 site. About 20mm in size.

scratcher · Oct 22, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

That is interesting about that design on the second button. If my memory serves me correctly it is exactly like the 41st Regiment of Foot buttons that I have dug which are circa 1800-1813(except they have a 41 on them). I wonder if that's where they got the idea? :dontknow:

Hidden_Realm · Oct 23, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Thanks for the info Johnny and will have to look into finding a pic of that Alberts button, but I am hard pressed to think it's not British for some reason. I have and have seen a few different Reg't. using that sunburst for 1812 though. As Scratcher pointed out, the 49th did as well. I will dig a bit later for pic's of the other sunbursts I have and post here to see. One never knows these days on some of the buttons.

Don in SJ · Oct 23, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

I kind of agree the CM button might be British, Firmin & Westall only made buttons for the years, 1797-1799.
I see no CM in Albert's book for NC buttons. But have seen British buttons with sunbursts also, especially during that period.
Don

BuckleBoy · Oct 23, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

The first button is almost certainly civilian.

The second button I am pretty positive is British. Crusader might be able to help with that one.

Bigcypresshunter · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

scratcher said:
That is interesting about that design on the second button. If my memory serves me correctly it is exactly like the 41st Regiment of Foot buttons that I have dug which are circa 1800-1813(except they have a 41 on them). I wonder if that's where they got the idea?

Yes it does look like the British 41st Regiment of foot. http://www.militaryheritage.com/button3.htm

Don in SJ · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

The British used the sunburst on buttons for a long time, a lot have the crown above it but not all. Since it was found in Canada (assumed), the button was manufactured in England, in the late 1790s, there are many sunburst English buttons from that time frame, just all points to it being British.

Here is one I found, with a sunburst from the same time frame, and it is without a doubt British.

Don

Silver Searcher · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

:icon_scratch:

Did you get any imfo back from Toms Treasures Web Site :dontknow:

I can't find any buttons with the Sunburst design

SS

Don in SJ · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Silver Searcher said:
Did you get any imfo back from Toms Treasures Web Site I can't find any buttons with the Sunburst design

SS

Let's see, first the one I posted above, second, check this site, it has a few examples: http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/numberedregiments.htm

also as far back as the Rev War the Brits had Rayed star buttons ( Don Troiani's book)- 2nd Foot Guards (Coldstream Guards) and 3rd Foot Guards (Scots Guards)

Don

Silver Searcher · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Don in SJ said:
Silver Searcher said:

Did you get any imfo back from Toms Treasures Web Site I can't find any buttons with the Sunburst design

SS

Click to expand...

Let's see, first the one I posted above, second, check this site, it has a few examples: http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/numberedregiments.htm

also as far back as the Rev War the Brits had Rayed star buttons ( Don Troiani's book)- 2nd Foot Guards (Coldstream Guards) and 3rd Foot Guards (Scots Guards)

Don

Ahh yes Don... I saw those, but thought they were the Eight pointed variaty :dontknow:

or are they the same variaty :dontknow:

SS

Don in SJ · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

johnnyi said:
I looked it up. Firmin & Westall manufactured buttons from 1800 to 1811 (according to Albert) if that's any clue to identifying the British one.

Tice has the dates I stated. ...1797-1799 but Firmin & Company are listed 1800-1811, evidently Westall was gone by then.

Silver Searcher · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

johnnyi said:
I looked it up. Firmin & Westall manufactured buttons from 1800 to 1811 (according to Albert) if that's any clue to identifying the British one.

Johnnyi...I found a date of 1794-1812

SS

Hidden_Realm · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Wow, you guys sure have been busy lol. Thanks so much for your efforts and sooner of later, a match will come. As for Tom's site, nothing at all other then the first one might be a "cannon reg't".

I know various dates are written around as to when that maker's mark was used and seems to all run around the 1800 mark. I once thought CM was for Canadian Militia, but had word to put back to that time frame. The sunburst as you guys said, was used on a fair bit of British buttons which makes it harder yet. My best guess so far of all the reading, would be British and some reg't of Militia, weather this area or close to here.

Here's a Incorporated Militia button I have from 1812 and somewhat the same sunburst but smaller.

Hidden_Realm · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Don in SJ said:
The British used the sunburst on buttons for a long time, a lot have the crown above it but not all. Since it was found in Canada (assumed), the button was manufactured in England, in the late 1790s, there are many sunburst English buttons from that time frame, just all points to it being British.

Here is one I found, with a sunburst from the same time frame, and it is without a doubt British.

Don

Hmmm, I like that button.
Yes, was found in Canada, Niagara on the Lake to be exact. A total of 75 buttons from this long gone homestead and 13 of those being War of 1812. 11 British and 2 Infantry Americans.

Hidden_Realm · Oct 24, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

A few possibilities I am looking into are, Canadian Militia and Coloured Militia. The "Coloured Corps" as known by mostly but some writing has them as "Coloured Militia" was a small group of Coloured men that formed their own group and fought here on the Niagara Frontier during 1812 for the British.

The Canadian Militia where here as well, larger and more action was seen by them. I do have one of their buttons, although, pewter and not close to the CM design at all.

I keep looking as a good winter project. After this one, so many more to do and obtain info on :icon_thumleft:

Bigcypresshunter · Oct 25, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

Is this your button? I found it posted on another site. http://www.tomstreasures.com/find.html

BuckleBoy · Oct 26, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

bigcypresshunter said:
Is this your button? I found it posted on another site. http://www.tomstreasures.com/find.html

Nice work, BigCy! At least the person who posted it to be ID'ed on that site may know more at this point about what it is.

:icon_sunny:

Bigcypresshunter · Oct 26, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

I am thinking its the same button, same poster.

Hidden_Realm · Oct 26, 2009

Re: A few button id's if one can help...

lol, yes, I had posted that CM and the top button on Tom's site awhile back but got nothing, other then top one possible...their words...."Cannon Reg't" I did see a CM on Ebay awhile back but was wrong writing for it and discribed a different button. I wrote and asked a question but never heard back from the seller......