A Simpleton Offers His Services

[GreenBranch]

I only started researching the LDM a couple of months ago and have found it to be exhilarating, like reading a good detective or mystery novel. The amazing thing is, this novel keeps changing as people keep adding to the story. But I have to admit, many of the details of this story are way above my head - written by much smarter and informed people than I will ever be. Having said that, unless I've missed something, even with all the brilliant minds working on the puzzle, the LDM still hasn't been "officially" found with national headlines, photos, gold samples and all that (although it's possible that it actually has been found and illegally looted and the gold sold on the black market. After all, China just purchased 32 tons of the shiny stuff and it had to come from somewhere).

But I digress.

Perhaps part of the reason the mine hasn't been found is because people are over thinking it. After all, from what I've read, the people who claimed to have retrieved gold from the mine weren't exactly rocket scientists. So I'd like to offer my services as a simple minded man with simple ambitions: to help solve the mystery and perhaps give three or six Mexican's (depending on which story you believe) a proper burial.

I truly believe that when a problem is difficult to solve, it helps to go back to the basics. So that is what I'd like to do in this thread. I've come late in the game and need help getting up to speed, and perhaps someone here could use someone like me willing to ask the really stupid questions, if for nothing else, having some comic relief.

So here goes and we'll see how quickly this thread dies.

 

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[GreenBranch]

I'd like to start with what seems to me to be one of the more consistently referenced maps; the Peralta Profile Map.

Stupid question #1. Is there an original copy of this map that can be examined and if so, has anyone done a chemical analysis to help verify the map's age and materials?

Stupid question #2. Has anyone found the location depicted in the map? I read that Bicknell searched the ruins near angel springs and even carved his name in the center post but said he didn't find any evidence of a mine shaft or tunnel. Has this area been sufficiently scoured by seasoned Dutch Hunters to cross it off any potential LDM list?

And if my questions are not only stupid but taboo on this forum, please let me know. I don't want to get banned on my fifth post.

I've added notes to the map as found on various sites and threads.

 

[GreenBranch]

OK, a few more posts and then I'll stop annoying you all for a few days.

Having done a fair amount of wilderness hiking in my life, water is the most important thing so I have to assume that the little x in the circle is a water supply and must represent a real place that can be found. On a hunch, I looked at various ways to get to Angel Springs and lo and behold, I think I found a match. But since GreenBranch is a total GreenHorn I may be way off base here so comments (kind ones please) are welcome.

I think the most compelling evidence of the match is the little bulge in the trail just after second water. Then, if I'm not mistaken, the horizontal line just above perfil mapa represents a boundary between the desert (Desierto) and the more lush and green area of Rogers Canyon. And that leads to my next post so stay with me.

Edit: I should mention that the trail on the left is the Jack Frazer trail.

 

[GreenBranch]

One of the things that seems to be a question to some is the number 15,000 under the arrow. Based on my reading and a wild imagination I figured it could mean turn around and it's 15000 Spanish feet (or 2.5 miles) to the line. So what is the line? Glad you asked. Thanks again to Google Earth, I measured the distance between the Caverna con Casa and Tortilla Pass and viola, I got 2.43 miles. The line is an imaginary boundary between the desert and the lush canyon. Pretty cool, huh? Of course I could be totally out in left field so let me take this a step further and see if you're convinced. Of course, this could be old news to all of you so forgive my repetition if it is.

 

[GreenBranch]

If Angel Springs is the location of the Perfil Mapa we should be able to make a comparison between the two. Once again, thank you Google Earth! Sorry, you have to open the full size image to see the details.

What impressed me was the way the shape of the peak near the caves is a close match to the map. Also, the general shape of the valley and mountains is also close.

One thing I need to verify is the existence of a peak in the location of S. Cima. Also, at the same time, I hope to hike up to the area labeled Pit Mine and search for evidence of mining. But the round shape in the inset image is compelling. What's more, it measures 75 feet across.

This image is taken as if descending from Tortilla Pass to Angel Springs.

 

[GreenBranch]

Last one, I promise.

If things work out, I hope to hike up to the alleged pit mine sometime this year. If I do I will share all I find out.

In the mean time, I'd love all of you to give me your feedback on this line of thinking. Could this be a good candidate for the LDM or has this area been proven a failure? I eagerly await your highly valued opinion.

 

[skyhawk1251]

GreenBranch --

My compliments on your excellent graphics work.

 

[GreenBranch]

Thanks skyhawk1251. But good graphics don't find gold mines. Still, having good images and finally learning that you can change years in Google Earth helps avoid greenie pitfalls like being sure the image on the left is a tunnel (directly across the canyon from the cave house) until another image proves otherwise. Like one seasoned person said, I'm just following the path of thousands before me and sure enough, I looked closer and there's an obvious trail worn by thousands of boots leading right up to the non-tunnel.

 

[GreenBranch]

I can't believe I didn't see this before. In this view it is clear that there is a tall narrow peak where S. Cima should be based on the shadows. I am now even more confident that this area matches the Perfil map.

 

[markmar]

GreenBranch

You wrote on the Profile map, the feathered arrow is a symbol for a mirrored image. Then, why are you using GE to match an image which should be reversed? Is this the thing you used in the thread's title?

 

[GreenBranch]

GreenBranch

You wrote on the Profile map, the feathered arrow is a symbol for a mirrored image. Then, why are you using GE to match an image which should be reversed? Is this the thing you used in the thread's title?

Markmar,

Until you learn to use a little polite courtesy, I prefer not to answer your questions and ask that you remain silent on this thread.

 

[markmar]

Markmar,

Until you learn to use a little polite courtesy, I prefer not to answer your questions and ask that you remain silent on this thread.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Markmar,

Until you learn to use a little polite courtesy, I prefer not to answer your questions and ask that you remain silent on this thread.

Greenbranch, there is nothing in Markmar's post that is discourteous, and only mods can ask or tell a member to not post on a thread. Once a thread is posted, it belongs to TreasureNet.

 

[GreenBranch]

Greenbranch, there is nothing in Markmar's post that is discourteous, and only mods can ask or tell a member to not post on a thread. Once a thread is posted, it belongs to TreasureNet.

Thank you treasure-hunter for the clarification. Perhaps I've just been jaded by all his posts in other threads which I consider very discourteous and taunting. But you are the moderator and I accept your judgement. I guess my only editing power then is to stop posting.

Edit: What I find impolite is this: If I call myself a simpleton that is a social convention to make light of myself and hopefully set the tone of the tread. If someone else calls me a simpleton while pointing out that I've obviously made a mistake in not interpreting the arrow correctly, then that is something quite different.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Markmar,

Until you learn to use a little polite courtesy, I prefer not to answer your questions and ask that you remain silent on this thread.

Woah! Getting a little ahead of yourself cowboy. Maybe take your own advice and go back to the basics?

You sit on a computer and use Google Earth to decide what is true. It's fun and entertaining but it's not real.

Direct from Google:

"Google makes no claims as to the accuracy of the coordinates in Google Earth. These are provided for entertainment only and should not be used for any navigational or other purpose requiring any accuracy whatsoever.

Our imagery varies from sub-meter resolution in major cities to 15 meter resolution for most of the earth's surface, with a global base resolution of 1KM. Since our database is constantly being updated, we cannot state a specific resolution for any geographic region."

With a base resolution of one kilometer (3,280 feet) and a bogus projection system it would be unwise to rely on any coordinate/aerial image location found on Google Earth. Sometimes it works OK and other times you will be "entertained".

Google's 3D imagery is not accurate by any means. It's just an aerial image taken from an airplane and overlaid on a very coarse 3D model. There is no real repeatable relationship between the "mountains" seen on google earth and the actual terrain.

A little respect for your fellow google desk chair cowboys could go a long way to improving the entertainment value of your interest in tall tales. You waded right into one of the biggest google entertainment mosh pits and insist you have the answers. You aren't the first and you won't be the last. Maybe learn to relax a bit, enjoy the tale and be entertained as Google intended.

Best of luck in your search.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Thank you treasure-hunter for the clarification. Perhaps I've just been jaded by all his posts in other threads which I consider very discourteous and taunting. But you are the moderator and I accept your judgement. I guess my only editing power then is to stop posting.

Edit: What I find impolite is this: If I call myself a simpleton that is a social convention to make light of myself and hopefully set the tone of the tread. If someone else calls me a simpleton while pointing out that I've obviously made a mistake in not interpreting the arrow correctly, then that is something quite different.

Sorry, I do not see any post where he called you a simpleton, I only see it in your thread title.

 

[GreenBranch]

"Then, why are you using GE to match an image which should be reversed? Is this the thing you used in the thread's title?" Or in other words, "The image should be reversed, or are you too much of a simpleton (thread title) to know that?" You don't have to be a genius to know when someone is taunting you.

Clay, my first trek into the Superstitions was three weeks ago when I hiked down Rogers Canyon to the Caverna con Casa to verify my theory. I panned the creek along the way and found no gold. But I found quite a lot of silver, especially In the lower parts as you approach the caves. Satisfied that this wasn't the LDM, I didn't take the time to continue on past Angel Springs and up the JF trail to take a picture of S. Cima from the vantage point the map was drawn. Still, I wanted to continue this thread by showing that the GE shadows indicate a pinnacle that could be S. Cima and that this area matches the Perfil Mapa quite well. Since that excursion, I discovered that Rogers Ridge and the surrounding area was heavily mined for silver and that the Silver Chief Mine was in the area. Given the amount of silver I found, I concluded that the area I highlight in my photos above actually does show the Peralta Pit Mine and that Silver was their main objective. I didn't feel the need to explore further since I was satisfied this wasn't the location of the LDM. Clay, you don't know me because I am brand new here. I am a simpleton in that I tend to look at things simply but I'm not ignorant nor am I a desk chair cowboy whose only motivation is entertainment. I am a serious Dutch Hunter with one simple goal: Find the Lost Dutchman Mine and end the speculation once and for all. By checking Rogers Canyon off my list, I am one step closer to reaching that goal. Stay tuned.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"Then, why are you using GE to match an image which should be reversed? Is this the thing you used in the thread's title?" Or in other words, "The image should be reversed, or are you too much of a simpleton (thread title) to know that?" You don't have to be a genius to know when someone is taunting you.

The comment "The image should be reversed, or are you too much of a simpleton (thread title) to know that?" , those are your words not his, you are assuming he meant an insult yet no where did he say that.

 

[GreenBranch]

I'd like to continue this thread by sharing my ideas about the Peralta Perfil Mapa.

Idea #1, it was created by someone who was in the business of finding precious metals and this map was one way of helping his employees find the mine, some of whom might not be able to read. The head of the company wasn't interested in creating some kind of complicated secret code because that would be a waste of time and effort.

Idea #2. The miners would use an existing trail with known water holes. If the map were authentic, you could find those locations on a real map and not having to distort things beyond recognition. I took a quick look at a topo map, saw the JF trail and considered it a good candidate. Finding several springs along the route, I went to GE to create a graphic that I could easily share. I think the image I posted above is fairly convincing evidence that the lower half of the map shows the JF trail in the "Desierto" and the two essential water holes are where I show them. I have yet to hike the trail to confirm the location of the springs but since I'm already satisfied that the LDM is not in Rogers Canyon, I don't feel the need.

Idea #3 The line bisecting the map indicates a geographical place that separates the desert from the canyon and should represent a real place that can be found. In my study, I read several articles speculating that the arrow means to turn around and that the 15,000 references Spanish feet or 2.5 miles. My method of testing this idea was to use Google Earth and measure the route which turned out to be 2.43 miles from the caves to Tortilla pass where there is a clear "line" between the dry desert and the greener canyon. Given the inaccuracy of GE and my line taking several shortcuts through the trail, I was satisfied that 2.43 was close enough.

Idea #4. A sketch of the Caverna Con Cosa area was drawn on location then redrawn later, perhaps several times for different groups, a good method if you don't have copy machines. If that were the case, then a person should be able to find the place where the original sketch was drawn and match landmarks. I was able to find several photos online of "El Sombrero" taken in connection with the cave ruins. I posted one of them above that I think looks very much like the sketch. I also outlined land features from a GE image to show that there was a possible match and I'm satisfied that it does.

If anyone has doubts about the methodology I'm using or the conclusions I've come up with I want to hear them - I welcome constructive criticism. But I don't think it does anyone any good to post snarky comments for the serious work people are doing.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I panned the creek along the way and found no gold. But I found quite a lot of silver, especially In the lower parts as you approach the caves.

You panned "quite a lot of silver" in Rogers Canyon? Fascinating ... please tell us more.