Abandoned equipment

[spillercanyon]

I filed a claim this fall which has mining equipment, trash and unfilled holes still on it. What legal rights, if any, do I have to remove his equipment from the claim if he decides not to move it? How long would I have to wait? I assume I can start removing his trash and filling his holes immediately if I cannot get him to do it.

Thanks!

P.S. I ask because most of the equipment is not of high value and he told me a few times he had no plans of ever hiking his heavy equipment back out of the canyon, especially the low end equipment, too much work he said (it's down a steep ravine and then a mile or so hike). I wouldn't want or use most of it, so to me, it's trash. If I can, I'll hike it out of there and give most of it away and sale a few items to someone who needs it. I like to keep my claims clean.

 

[Bodfish Mike]

I would contact him again and tell him what you just told us.
I would not fill the holes so fast ( at lease without testing first )
The trash I would remove.
Mike

 

[RobertF]

Take lots of pictures to document the condition of the claim at your time of staking. BLM/USFS will gladly come around later and say it's all your responsibility to clean up.

 

[ratled]

Take lots of pictures to document the condition of the claim at your time of staking. BLM/USFS will gladly come around later and say it's all your responsibility to clean up.

^^^^^^This ^^^^^^...............and whatever you provide him with in writing. You should have his contact info and should include that to BLM/FS

ratled

 

[rodoconnor]

You might tread carefully. It's surprising how valuable junk can become if the guy can find some way to hold you culpable. I'm assuming that you are in Kalifornia, so laws and what is right don't mean anything. I hate to say this, but maybe a couple of bucks to an attorney. Good Luck

 

[Tuolumne]

I filed a claim this fall which has mining equipment, trash and unfilled holes still on it. I have met the previous owner of the claim (and owner of the equipment, trash and holes) and as a favor last summer, I let him know that his claim had become invalid as of December 2015, he had not filed his paperwork for 2016 with BLM. He was very thankful and said he would fix it immediately. He filed with the County but not with BLM, again, same problem I identified for him this past summer. I waited 90 days after he filed with the County and he did not file it with BLM so I filed my own claim. I am more than willing to allow him to remove his equipment (as well as the pile of trash and fill in his holes, like that's going to happen) but what legal rights, if any, do I have to remove his equipment from the claim if he decides not to move it? How long would I have to wait? I assume I can start removing his trash and filling his holes immediately if I cannot get him to do it.

Thanks!

P.S. I ask because most of the equipment is not of high value and he told me a few times he had no plans of ever hiking his heavy equipment back out of the canyon, especially the low end equipment, too much work he said (it's down a steep ravine and then a mile or so hike). I wouldn't want or use most of it, so to me, it's trash. If I can, I'll hike it out of there and give most of it away and sale a few items to someone who needs it. I like to keep my claims clean.

wow some great favor! what a joke, if your heart is sooooo good why didnt you just help him do everything and not lose it? Does he know you paper claimed him or does he think his claim is still his, bad Karma dude!

Sounds like you knew he had problems and you jumped on it. How thoughtful...... we should all be as compassionate as you and the world would be perfect.

How come no one post about helping their neighbor get the paperwork and avoid predatory paper claimers drooling on Lr2000 waiting to pounce like spillercanyon?....... I guess spillercanyon is more "hate the game not the player type" Thats a ba humbug from me on that- not cool how ever you want to spin it

Now you jump his claim and want him to get his stuff off, how friendly. Does he know you paper claimed over him yet or does he think his problem is solved? Maybe you should restake it and let him know its "yours" and he messed up on his paper work.....could you do him that favor? lol

Im glad I wont run into you and your friendly attitude twords other miners in my area,"hey your claims still messed up and Im gonna get it ye haaaaw" if he didnt care why not just pay him instead of going through paper shadows and stealing it?

sounds like he doesnt even know its not his claim and you want to sound good by keeping "your claims" clean by spreading fake news.....

You like to keep your blood claims clean huh? Your claims this way will never be clean

This is why miners cant get along in groups and clubs because theres always another miner to stab you in the back with their "favors"

we should set up a paper claim forum so I dont have to see you snakes talking amonst yourselves and looking for support from your evil ways.......

 

[spillercanyon]

Wow Todd, for someone who has no idea who I am or what I stand for and come out with guns a blazing, you really ought to keep your trap closed if you don't know what is going on. How long do I wait before someone other than the two of us files this claim?

Todd, may we never cross paths!

 

[Tuolumne]

you said "I sat down with him and filled out his paperwork for him." yet you still managed to not really help him all they way and the more you talk about helping the less it sounds like you really were.

so you helped but not really, how old was this guy? You should not be taking advantage of old people either.

Maybe he thought since you helped him with the paper work side by side like you said, even painting his markers things were alright? Yet you left a loophole open for your self....

What else did you help him with? Who in their right mind would want help from someone thats goal was to paper claim his diggings?

Why didnt you just show him the BLM website were he could just pay his yearly fees in 5 minutes? Thats no paperwork at all!!!!!

Spillercanyon you have bad karma- You are a not helping anyone.........

 

[Goldfleks]

I think the yearly fee's for a mining claim should be significantly higher IMHO. High enough that if you're not actively MINING the claim and making a profit that it doesn't make financial sense to squat on the paperwork at the BLM. How many paperwork claims are out there not being used tying up acres of public land. I feel lucky that I live close enough to San Gabriel River in CA that for the moment until Obama's monument completely shuts it down, that there is a public space where I can throw my box in the water and move a few buckets of dirt when the mood strikes me without worrying about claim jumping.

I would love to prospect in Trabuco Canyon or other local areas, but it's all claimed. Claims should be for individuals/companies with active profitable mining plans/opperations for that claim. Not for John Doe to file some paperwork and tie up acres of land so he can put his box in the water once a year on Labor Day weekened and lock out everyone else. Especially when his claim is for recreational mining purposes only.

 

[Jeff95531]

Congrats Tuolumne. Your responses in this thread (tho it is your opinion and I respect that) has proven you belong on my ignore list. #2 to none other than chlsbrns. spillercanyon went above and beyond being above board with his intentions. It's what I've come to expect and respect from people here. Not you. I suggest you have a snickers and get back to us.

 

[rodoconnor]

It may not make financial sense [ prudent man] to keep and pay the fees for a claim Today. Minerals that are on your claim may be worthless , could be of value next year, or things could change , price per ounce e.g. , or legalized dredging, making it viable.

 

[Tuolumne]

Congrats Tuolumne. Your responses in this thread (tho it is your opinion and I respect that) has proven you belong on my ignore list. #2 to none other than chlsbrns. spillercanyon went above and beyond being above board with his intentions. It's what I've come to expect and respect from people here. Not you. I suggest you have a snickers and get back to us.

im sticking to my guns, why didnt he just do what I would have done, no paper work required to pay on BLM website? Spiller canyon you seem like you dont know him yet your buddy buddy with this guy helping him with papers and painting, thats peculiar behavior to me, what gives? Miner to miner?

First he said he informed him of the paper work lapse and the "claim owner" said he would do it on his own, then spiller canyon said he "sat down with him and helped him complete half the paperwork".

Thats two different stories from Spiller- His story/stories that are changing- just doesn't add up, thats not helping in my book.

why didnt you really ease his burden and help- tell him that he really never has to do any more paperwork if he keeps up his claim payment online?!? instead of wasted time planning your paper claim jump, you could have used 2 minutes to help him pay on line? Great help u r

Why didnt you just show him the BLM website were he could just pay his yearly fees in 5 minutes? Thats no paperwork at all!!!!! Thats above board in my book----thats doing him a favor and helping- sorry for being the nice guy but I would have helped him for real-

instead of coming here asking legal advice on how to get him for his left refuse, why not eat a snickers and tell him face to face or in writting to move his garbage and that its your claim now? so your looking for help and our "favors"? how ironic

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well guys.... Let's all turn it down a couple of notches here. Everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion and sniping back and fourth over a matter that is in truth none of our business only makes us all look bad.

From the o.p. it sounds to me like Spiller TRIED to help the guy, but like many so called claim holders he couldn't be bothered to make sure his claim was properly filed which caused it to become invalid. You have to follow the rules to the letter to make sure your claim is valid or take the chance of having someone that actually knows what he's doing file a valid claim over you. From what I saw wile reading the o.p., Spiller tried everything to help the guy except for digging out the gold and handing it to the him.

 

[Goldfleks]

Sounds like he was done working the claim because if he was activly involved with the claim making sure he processed his paperwork would have been higher on his priority list. Just because someone has a claim, doesnt mean they intend to keep it forever.

 

[spillercanyon]

Todd, you don't know anything about me to be calling me a liar. I am not taking advantage of an old man, I don't consider myself an old man and he is 10 years younger than me. Not sure if you fell off your high horse lately and can't get back on without kicking everyone around you but your attitude and speculation is not wanted nor warranted. Though I do not feel I have to justify myself to you, you have called me out and thus I will clarify things so you can stick your foot in your mouth so far you choke on it.

I have notified the previous claimant, I went as far as to tell him he can continue digging where he has been digging when:
1) He removes all equipment that he has not been using in the past year as well as his dredge.
2) He removes the several hundred pounds of garbage he has spewed across the claim.
3) He fills in all his abandoned holes.

The problem is, I don't think he is going to do any of the above. He has access to work where he has been working only by following normal and legal mining etiquette.

If that is not helping your miner I don't know what is.

Goldflecks, I don't claim anything I don't intend to work.

Toad, tie yourself to the back of that high horse and give it a good kick. Goodbye.

 

[Tuolumne]

Well guys.... Let's all turn it down a couple of notches here. Everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion and sniping back and fourth over a matter that is in truth none of our business only makes us all look bad.

From the o.p. it sounds to me like Spiller TRIED to help the guy, but like many so called claim holders he couldn't be bothered to make sure his claim was properly filed which caused it to become invalid. You have to follow the rules to the letter to make sure your claim is valid or take the chance of having someone that actually knows what he's doing file a valid claim over you. From what I saw wile reading the o.p., Spiller tried everything to help the guy except for digging out the gold and handing it to the him.

I hear you, and Ive had neighbors been jumped by people saying they will do them favors and help file paperwork........the title of the thread is abandoned equipment, thats probably not true either. Spiller lets get this guy on a group phone chat and invite him here to tnet so we can get the whole truth about this abandoned equipment on "your" claim

 

[RobertF]

All things aside of the details of the OP's story changing, how far should one miner really go to help another miner keep his paperwork correct? Fill it out and take it to the county for him? Mail it to BLM for him? At some point there has to be some personal accountability for keeping your own claim up to snuff paperwork wise. Most paper hangers wouldn't have even reached out the first time to say "Hey, FYI..."

 

[Tuolumne]

Sounds like he was done working the claim because if he was activly involved with the claim making sure he processed his paperwork would have been higher on his priority list. Just because someone has a claim, doesnt mean they intend to keep it forever.

he intened to keep it or he wouldnt want spillers help filing with county!! you guys are just the best with your concept of "help"

claim jumpers help themselves........ your Bad Karma, not mine

 

[gldguy1]

Personally to me it sounds like if you snooze you loose end of story, common curtesy was given but is the guy supposed to wipe the other guys butt as well as fill out papers. It's like if you take your car in for repair then forget to pay for it, after legal papers have been sent out you loose your car to abandonment laws. It could be worse, said claim could always be bought by some liberal hippy green group

 

[Tuolumne]

All things aside of the details of the OP's story changing, how far should one miner really go to help another miner keep his paperwork correct? Fill it out and take it to the county for him? Mail it to BLM for him? At some point there has to be some personal accountability for keeping your own claim up to snuff paperwork wise. Most paper hangers wouldn't have even reached out the first time to say "Hey, FYI..."

simple, if you dont want to do a miners waiver paperwork or old fashion filing and fee payment, you can pay full fee to the BLM website and be done with any hassle, thats the honorable thing to do, let him know this and he will never get paper claimed by his fellow miner..... no need to fill out anything or go anywhere with him... again whos really helping?

Im not going to your dark side of rationalizing paper claim jumping, thats a slippery sloap and its every miners morals/karma that are in question, not mine. Do the right thing

If a miner come to me for help, I will.

If I see my neighbor, buddy, fellow miner down the street messed his paperwork up after I helped him do half of it, Im not going to bend him over and stake his claim just because its a american right to do so and tell him you snooze you lose and to get his crap off new said claim...... thats some nerve. Thats not my style in Tuolumne

Did Spiller test pan the area and high grad before his claim jump?, how did he really know the land had recorverable gold? Tell us the real story spiller.......spill your beans and let us know the real story- why did you want his claim? Find anything yet a mile and a half from the road?