Am I doing something wrong?

[mustang8780]

Hunted an 1830's farm this weekend with some early 1790's foundations on the property as well as reported Civil War camping activity...

Place is 100 acre farm house in Middleburg VA, stone walls everywhere, original 1830 stone house...

Finds...pretty much not a darn thing...piece of a crotal bell and what appears to be a brass harness ring...

I have permission to go back whenever I want and bring whomever...but...spending 7 hours there with nothing to show...

Advice? I posted this in another forum but I think it was the wrong place, btw...I am using an E-Trac was running in factory coin mode with a few minor tweaks.

P.S. I found a bunch of junk...I found stuff...just nothing close to what I thought...not even wheat pennies...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If you are not "lacking for signals", then ..... obviously ....... your detector is working. So when you say you are "finding a bunch of junk", I assume you're not lacking for conductive (ie.: non-iron) signals to dig, right? If so, then you might have a site where there's just too much modern junk covering the potential older goodies. Or your detector doesn't have the depth to reach the older goodies? Like d/t perhaps the location/soil/vegetation type has left everything very stratified by age?

Describe the type of "junk" you are referring to, the depth you're finding it at, etc... For example, if you say "I'm finding tabs and aluminum cans at a foot deep in dense vegetation and overgrowth", then this does not bode well for reaching older deeper stuff. But if your "junk" is things like henry shells, period buttons, pistol balls, gun parts, lantern parts, harmonica reeds, etc.... then some people consider that "good junk", as it means you're in the right age range, so a period coin could be "forthcoming".

Lastly, it's kinda hard for anyone to answer the proverbial "what am I doing wrong" question, without actually being there, to observe. I've gone out with guys before, who ask this question, and are about ready to throw their machine away. Then I show up to see how they're operating it, or how they've set their controls, or their mistaken notion on the type places to hunt, or how they can't recognized that they're detecting the corners of buildings, which they mistake as a signal down the ground, or any of a million scenarios that simply can't be diagnosed, till "seen".

 

[mustang8780]

The junk stuff I was finding was period pieces of copper and brass anywhere from 6-8 inches in brush hogged fields and around the main house. I found a piece of a Crotal bell at 9 inches and also a brass harness ring at 7ish inches. I found a lot of modern junk close to the surface...

I had areas where the e-trac would completely blank out and I went extremely slow over these areas, also, I had areas where it would just go completely haywire like there was something wrong with the detector and I could only attribute this to power lines?

My technique at this point has been running the e-trac in factory coins mode with the stock coil very close (on) the ground keeping it parallel to the surface and sweeping slow and careful...it just seems either I am not set up correctly or I may have an issue with my machine. This is the second 1830s home that I have been to and thus far I have just one period coin...seems very odd...

Maybe its just not there...I am not giving up by any means...I am hooked. In another post I reported my findings from a business trip this past week where I did very well in a yard I have hunted relentlessly...i dont know...

Just frustrated I guess...researching and getting permission to homes like that isnt easy...maybe its just being so pumped about a place with that much potential and then finding minimal stuff...

Oh well...have another new place lined up for Friday...1885 house on Route 7 in Falls Church, VA...been in a co-workers family since it was built and never legally hunted to their knowledge...

 

[bigscoop]

You could also be on a property that has been hunted a lot in the past. Metal detecting isn't new and it has been around for a long time so a lot of places have often been hunted to death over the years. This is actually quite common with the first 8 to 10 inches of soil having already been picked clean many times over. One thing to keep in mind, "most objects will eventually sink into the soil until they reach a depth where the density of the soil can support the mass of the item", so in really soft soils an item like a gold or silver coin can sink a long way, especially if it's not resting flat with more surface area to support it. Something you might try is a steel probing rod, say a 5/16" to 3/8" round rod with a sharp point, use it to see how easily and how far down you have to go before you hit a firm layer of soil, check the place in several areas, these depths might give you an idea as to how deep you will have to hunt in order to reach the older items you're searching for. This is just a basic test so it's not 100% accurate, but it should offer you some helpful insight. Here's a tip; always a good idea to do this test in the spring when the ground is usually at it's softest as this is when most items find it easier to sink. Just press the rod into the ground without too much effort and make note of how deep it goes before you start feeling any added resistence, after a 100 years of sinking this is how deep I would expect a lot of those older items to possibly be.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You say you were/are finding "... period pieces of copper and brass...." More questions for you:

1) when you say "period", I assume we're talking the same thing, which is that the brass and copper you are finding, appears to be the right age of the era you are looking for. Ie.: 1800's junk, right? (as opposed to modern surface brass or copper, which wouldn't have the tell-tale patina, blacksmithed look, etc...).

2) Once you get these "junk" items out of the ground, they read similar to where various coins might read, right? (as opposed to low foil signals, or whatever)

If both the above are answered "yes", then you are doing nothing wrong. You are reaching the right era things, where period coins could just as easily be. You machine is working correctly, reaching the depth needed to get the 1800's stuff, etc...

In that case, I'd say you have a lame spot. There is a common misconception that any farm or old house should *obviously* have coins and goodies. Dunno about back east, but where I'm at in CA, there are scores of 100 yr. old barns, sheds, country farm houses, etc... that I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft. pole!! Maybe it's different in other states, but here in the central coast of CA, those old farms can be extremely junky, since ...... in the old days, there was no curbside trash service (as there was, earlier on, inside the city limits). So country folk would just burn or bury their trash, and/or pitch all the kitchen scrap/trash out the door for the chickens and pigs to peck at. And they'd work on tractors and stuff right on their front lawn (if you even called it a "lawn"). Contrast to city yards, where people tended to keep a turfed lawn, clean and neat, etc.... (at least a front yard anyhow).

An exception, of course, would be if the farm ceased to exist before the turn of the century. Then it predates autos, electricity, and the "throw-away" age.

Primarily, the only country farm homesteads I'll hunt, if they weren't abandoned before the turn of the century, is if they had some sort of commerical concerns. Ie.: doubled as a stage stop, store, post office, school, picnic site, etc... Because if it's just a singular family concern, it won't be as good. You gotta go to where people congregated and coins changed hands. As I say, there's exceptions (perhaps if you added 100 yrs, and made the farm date to the 1700s, you could be willing to be a lot more patient). But I refuse to dig through reams of modern trash and farm debri for a single barber dime or IH.

Perhaps your place is just a singular family concern, with little to no coins coming out. There might be old places with better odds and usages that you can research out.

 

[mustang8780]

I figured it might be a lame spot or that it was just hunted particullarly well in the past.

As for your questions:

1) when you say "period", I assume we're talking the same thing, which is that the brass and copper you are finding, appears to be the right age of the era you are looking for. Ie.: 1800's junk, right? (as opposed to modern surface brass or copper, which wouldn't have the tell-tale patina, blacksmithed look, etc...).

Yes period brass and copper junk that has a very good patina. Usually it was anywhere from 5-12 inches....depending on how big the pieces where. Sounded great in the headphones though...not as sharp as a coin most of the time but there were a few that I thought were coins until I flipped the plug.

2) Once you get these "junk" items out of the ground, they read similar to where various coins might read, right? (as opposed to low foil signals, or whatever)

Yes.

Also, Bigscoop, I like the idea of determining the layer of hard pack...for this location I dug right to it...there was a hard layer of dirt that varied depending on where I was on the farm. At the main house location it was pretty deep...12 inches or more (i suspect that this area has been regraded and then sodded over the years, especially after talking with the owner), however, around the 1700s foundations, the open fields, and the stone walls it was only about 4-6 inches down...I found the piece of the crotal bell next to the 1790 servants quarters at about 4 inches and the brass harness ring next to the 1790 barn foundation at about 5 inches...so...

Anyway, I guess I just needed a gut check since this is the second 1830s homestead that I have been to and had minimal success with. I know not every home is going to produce tons of stuff...just wanted to hear more opinions.

 

[mustang8780]

Here is an overview of the place....its 100 acres and I couldnt capture all that in the pic but the main stuff is there...I annotated a little.

 

[TORRERO]

Here is an overview of the place....its 100 acres and I couldnt capture all that in the pic but the main stuff is there...I annotated a little.

Where ?

 

[mustang8780]

Where is it? As in location?

 

[TORRERO]

My personal opinion is that it's been hunted and hunted...

Yes, you can't get everything from a place this big....

but if you have had 1000 guys out there with machines over the past 30 years, I would believe
that there probably is not much left...

That said, since you have permission to be there and you don't have to worry about being run off
then it still should be a good place for a few keepers...

I remember when I was in Spain in Andalusia and went with a friend to a "Roman" site....
He said to me that when he started hunting this place that you could not walk 5 feet without
getting a signal of some kind....
But we spent 4-5 hours out there and came away with maybe 2-3 really cruddy unidentifiable
coins.... The area about 10 - 20 acres was covered with ceramic shards of amphoras broken
bits and handles.... no doubt we were in the right place...
But of course this place was known for the last 10 years as a good producer..
so what we go left with was the scraps...

And by the way.... you never really know where some stuff you find comes from....
It's possible that those scraps of "Period" copper are just that.... scraps that someone else
dug in the past and dumped or threw or flung away from where they were digging so
they did not have to carry them around...
Seen it time and time again....
In Spain, it was lead..... Spaniard would dig it, not want it and throw it back in the field
to dig another day.......

Oh well, I'm sure if you walk around enough you will get some nice keepers...
Who knows... maybe the best things are the last things and they are still there waiting for you.

 

[TORRERO]

Where is it? As in location?

Maybe my computer is a little slow...
I see the picture now...

Something you might try, just from experience
Seems there is a lot of trashy signals around the foundations.... right ?
I would head to the open areas and away from the structures and set my machine on all metal
less the Iron. With my DFX I call this setting the "NO IRON" setting...
but you still get the foil readings and coin readings...
You said you had set the machine to factory setting for coins..... but the problem is that
modern machines are set for modern coins, and many many good targets will be walked over
in a setting like this, because the machine does not know what you are trying to find...
Sure you will dig silver and large coppers...
but a mini ball comes in at the low end of a zinc penny... so do
Indian heads... Gold Coins are in the aluminum foil range up through pulltab, Many many buttons of great value will come in around the Nickel or pulltab
range... No you don't want to run this in the fields of an old place set to a factory setting for
modern coins....
OMG what you might be missing....
I don't know if you can do this, but I run my DFX in all metal in an open area, and when I get a target I check to see if its Iron or not then decide to dig if its not iron...

 

[Lowbatts]

It sounds to me like you're getting the right kind of conductive targets for a good site. I say good site because it seems to me that both coin and relic hunters would have removed those targets you call junk at those depths had that place been pounded. While there's lots of great md'ers back east your way, they have not covered all the spots.

The better ETrac users out your way would be a great help if you could catch up with a couple at some simliar site and see how they configure the parameters at such a site and how they discern which targets to dig.

One of the valid air test formats is one in which you consider the tones your rig is generating from a variety of targets. Mixed and isolated targets of varying type and keep the coil up 6 or more inches off the targets when doing this.

 

[BuckleBoy]

It sounds to me like you're getting the right kind of conductive targets for a good site. I say good site because it seems to me that both coin and relic hunters would have removed those targets you call junk at those depths had that place been pounded. While there's lots of great md'ers back east your way, they have not covered all the spots.

Exactly right! If you're digging old targets that are ringing mid-range and above, then the place has not been worked out. The better news is that lots of old "junk" means lots of years of occupation. So the goodies will be there. My advice is to keep at it, and also to post all the "junk" you find too--because some of it may not in fact be junk! Many diggers (especially new ones to the hobby) toss out rare and valuable finds in the early stages because they don't know what they are. We will help you ID anything that you find, so post it all. I think you will have good luck in that spot.

Regards,


Buck

 

[mustang8780]

Thanks for all the replies, I will certainly be going back. I will post up what I can soon.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Torrero, excellent post Not sure about Spain, but in some parts of the USA, where there's been hobbyists for 30+ yrs, that can be very true. I've seen, as a past club president, where someone new comes in with a "sure-fire spot" that they've just researched out. But I happen to know it's an old-picnic grove, or stage stop, or adobe site, or whatever, that was worked to a bloody frazzle years earlier. We'd give up on the place when it got down to just a conductive target per hour, and consider it just wasn't worth the effort anymore The newbie, who has picked up the same old sorry history book that we availed ourselves of 15 yrs. earlier, just can't understand why there are no coins there for him. Or more humorously yet, some landowner, renter, ranch-hand, or someone living nearby, will tell him "no one's ever md'd here before". The newbie considers this bullet-proof that he's about to hit a virgin site (because afterall, you can't argue with aunt Bertha who lives right down the road, and would certainly have seen if someone had md'd it. Or you can't argue with the current landowners cousin-in-law, who certainly would know if his uncle had let anyone in before" etc.... )

But in mustang's site's case, since he's not lacking for conductive targets (deep, not discards on top of the ground by current md'rs), it appears to be a case of a single family concern habitation, which just has a p*ss-poor ratio of coins per age indicators. The better homesteads were ones where it also had some sort of community focal point, and where people gathered and/or spent money. Ie.: a store, saloon, camp, post-office, stage stop, or something like this. If it was just a singular family concern, then the coin ratios may not necessarily be good. Exceptions occur, of course, but I've seen some farms that are quite old, where I never lack for age indicators, yet it becomes clear, after many hours, that I'm getting farm cast-off junk, as if they buried their trash in the yard, or had burn pits, or other such farm business dealings going on.

 

[Dick Stout]

I am going to be quick and upfront with my thoughts. Go back, slow down, and detect a very small area over and over again. I have been excited about a lot of places in the past, and in many instances they didn't pan out the first couple of times through. Later I decided to really work and area and clean out what it had to offer. The end result, more often than not, was that I found some pretty decent stuff. JMO.

www.stoutstandards.com

 

[Swartzie]

If it were me I would hunt this place for the rest of the year and probably more. It will take several visits to get a feel for where activity was. Look for the iron patches that would indicate where structures once stood then search around the perimeters of the iron. Once you have an idea where some activity was then work it like you were mowing the grass. Go up and back in strips like mowing grass. Dig every signal above iron. Sure, you'll dig lots of junk. But, you'll also dig many keepers.

Good Luck!
-Swartzie

 

[TORRERO]

Torrero, excellent post Not sure about Spain, but in some parts of the USA, where there's been hobbyists for 30+ yrs, that can be very true. I've seen, as a past club president, where someone new comes in with a "sure-fire spot" that they've just researched out. But I happen to know it's an old-picnic grove, or stage stop, or adobe site, or whatever, that was worked to a bloody frazzle years earlier. We'd give up on the place when it got down to just a conductive target per hour, and consider it just wasn't worth the effort anymore The newbie, who has picked up the same old sorry history book that we availed ourselves of 15 yrs. earlier, just can't understand why there are no coins there for him. Or more humorously yet, some landowner, renter, ranch-hand, or someone living nearby, will tell him "no one's ever md'd here before". The newbie considers this bullet-proof that he's about to hit a virgin site (because afterall, you can't argue with aunt Bertha who lives right down the road, and would certainly have seen if someone had md'd it. Or you can't argue with the current landowners cousin-in-law, who certainly would know if his uncle had let anyone in before" etc.... )

But in mustang's site's case, since he's not lacking for conductive targets (deep, not discards on top of the ground by current md'rs), it appears to be a case of a single family concern habitation, which just has a p*ss-poor ratio of coins per age indicators. The better homesteads were ones where it also had some sort of community focal point, and where people gathered and/or spent money. Ie.: a store, saloon, camp, post-office, stage stop, or something like this. If it was just a singular family concern, then the coin ratios may not necessarily be good. Exceptions occur, of course, but I've seen some farms that are quite old, where I never lack for age indicators, yet it becomes clear, after many hours, that I'm getting farm cast-off junk, as if they buried their trash in the yard, or had burn pits, or other such farm business dealings going on.

Well as for Spain, I remember going to some places in the middle of nowhere...
Just out and out way out....
and you would spend 3 hours walking the field and it has broken pottery and bricks and you find...
a handful of small pieces of lead.
a few bits of copper and nothing else.... it was amazing...
It was well known that the Spanish hunters would hunt a site and throw the lead back, and keep everything else.
So it was common to find sites with lots of lead and nothing else..
As for this site, something does not seem right like the fact that he knows it's a 1700 site, that
Civil war troops supposedly camped here and there are many foundations....
I might be able to buy that there are no coins, as many people did not have lots of money back then
and people lost what they had....
But everybody had buttons.. buckles... Daily life type of artifacts....
Seems strange to me that he turned up only trashy scraps......
I'm a realist.... If I'm at an old site and it's not producing anything.... then either there is nothing there
Or it's been cleaned out....
I take the second stance...

 

[mustang8780]

Thanks for all the replies. I will certainly hunt the site again as there is so much land and there is some potential. What I did cover I wont go over again because the areas I did cover I gridded at both 0 and 90 degrees sweeping very slowly. I knew the site was old so I went slow. Like I said before I was there for 7 hours and I covered areas that I thought would have had activity but I never really got out into the fields or some of the woods on the property.

Anyway, its on my list of places now (which is small) and its a good back up if I have no where new.