Any help on this bottle ID?

[skite]

Hello All -
I'm looking for any information at all on this bottle. It's part of a large collection of bottles and assorted glass ware that spans from the 1830's to the 1970's. It's a bit generic looking but maybe someone can help me narrow things down a bit. There are no identifying letters, numbers, or marks on this bottle at all. Thanks!

skite

 

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[TommyTownsend]

Looks like someone on another forum dated the bottle much newer.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

"I will not let you or anybody else try to intimidate me into making a correct ID."

My earlier quote is wrong but Im afraid to edit. What I meant to say was "I will not let you or anybody else try to intimidate me into not making a correct ID."

But hey no worry timekiller. I have enough problems and I spend way too much time here trying to teach others. I just needed an excuse to quit TN and you gave it to me. Do I need this?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Looks like someone on another forum dated the bottle much newer.

Yes I read what timekiller posted.

Here's the post..............
Was Wondering About this Bottle?

I just dont think its true but pictures can be deceiving. I am waiting on a better picture of the seam. Its a very slim possibility but I doubt it. I have no problem with being wrong but someone needs to prove it without a bunch of namecalling and unfounded rude accusations..

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

But what if the seam stops before the top? What if? If this turns out to be handblown, would you expand your dateline?

Big Cy ~


Please don't get hung up or confused on the seam issue. Please read the following article and you will understand why I say this. I have communicated numerous times with Bill lockhart, Bill Lindsey, and have personally met Carol Serr, and you can trust their combined knowledge. In my opinion they are the best bottle researchers in the country.

Seam Article Link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/Thermometer_BLockhart.pdf


Please trust me folks, if the bottle in question is a natural sun colored amethyst and not faked, then it was definitely made prior to about 1920 ... I'll stake my reputation on it!

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Skite ~

Is your bottle Sun Colored Amethyst / Light Purple? Please let me know because my reputation is on the line.

Thanks a million.

Sodabottlebob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

We appear to have different opinions on this corktop whiskey/brandy. At least I think its a cork top and it sure seems to match the earlier cobalt whiskeys posted by timekiller.. What we need to see please is a better pic of the top neck seam or lack of a seam. We need to determine if the bottle is ABM for starters..

When this post is over you will never see me again posting in any of your threads timekiller. The Colonial comments I made were meant as a compliment to you for your extensive knowlege...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~


Please don't get hung up or confused on the seam issue. Please read the following article and you will understand why I say this. I have communicated numerous times with Bill lockhart, Bill Lindsey, and have personally met Carol Serr, and you can trust their combined knowledge. In my opinion they are the best bottle researchers in the country.

Seam Article Link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/Thermometer_BLockhart.pdf


Please trust me folks, if the bottle in question is a natural sun colored amethyst and not faked, then it was definitely made prior to about 1920 ... I'll stake my reputation on it!

SBB

OK ill read it but you didnt answer my question. If this bottle is hand blown could it be 1890? Yes or No?

I dont just recognize a bottle by the side seam Bob. A seam around the circumference will also signify ABM..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Skite ~

Is your bottle Sun Colored Amethyst / Light Purple? Please let me know because my reputation is on the line.

Thanks a million.

Sodabottlebob

View attachment 629886

LOL

Bob I found the design in my 1905 Illinois Glass Manufacturers book. Did you see the pic I posted? I also have a warehouse full of them. Even timekiller posted old matching corktop whiskeys. Even if this cork top bottle was made into the 1960's, I dont see how we can rule out or prove that its not 1915.

Thanks for keeping the discussion cordial.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

OK ill read it but you didnt answer my question. If this bottle is hand blown could it be 1890? Yes or No?

Typically the so called "Machine Age" of bottle making started in ernest around 1910-1915. But some glass plants continued making hand blown bottles well into the teens and early 1920s. Machines were super expensive and it took some makers time to make the transition. So to answer your question, of course if it was made in a mold it could date to as early as 1890. But even with that said, I'm sticking with circa 1905-1915 ... but only if it is a true SCA and doesn't have any bubbles. And I'm hoping Skite can answer that.


But if it has a jillion bubbles, then its a whole new ball game for me!

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The purpose of this forum is not to make anyone look good or to show anybody up. The purpose has always been to make the correct ID and I have no problem whatsoever if Im wrong. I also will NOT go back and edit my posts as I was so rudely accused of. I think my record in the past speaks for itself and I have previously had no problem with timekiller whatsoever until now.

I asked you to come here not as a friend Bob but as an experienced bottle collector. We need to make the correct ID because everyone who visits the house will be reading it. The bottle was found here under a porch and will be displayed. Van Buren

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

So to answer your question, of course if it was made in a mold it could date to as early as 1890. But even with that said, I'm sticking with circa 1905-1915 ... but only if it is a true SCA and doesn't have any bubbles. And I'm hoping Skite can answer that.


But if it has a jillion bubbles, then its a whole new ball game for me!

SBB

OK thanks. As far as the bubbles, I really cant tell by the pic. As far as the side seam or circumference seam, we need a better pic. I agree with you on the manganese but pics can be deceiving. It appears to me to be a 3 part mould but I dont know if they were made in the 1960's. All my 3 part moulds are "old" (1800's-1910) But I imagine there are exceptions. When did they start screw top whiskeys?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I gotta go but Im sure the ugliness of this thread is not over. We should both be ashamed of ourselves timekiller. There are no winners here..

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

For me it all hinges on Skite's response to whether the bottle is a natural SCA. If it is, then I'd say its 99.99999% certain to have been made prior to 1920. In other words ...

1. SCA = Pre 1920
2. Clear/No Bubbles = Post 1920
3. SCA or Clear but with "lots of bubbles" = Pre 1920


As for dating it by the seams or anything else, I can't comment on that aspect without seeing it personally or detailed information and/or better pictures. My observations and opinions are based on the current pics and info only.


SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~


Please don't get hung up or confused on the seam issue. Please read the following article and you will understand why I say this. I have communicated numerous times with Bill lockhart, Bill Lindsey, and have personally met Carol Serr, and you can trust their combined knowledge. In my opinion they are the best bottle researchers in the country.

Seam Article Link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/Thermometer_BLockhart.pdf


SBB

I read the link just now its very good. This thread is already too long for the average reader to read. I guess I was trying to simplify it. I should not have posted the bottle seam dateline. It was just meant to give the OP a very general idea of ABM or not.

We need to take all the factors into play. Off the top of my head:

1-cork or screw top
2-bubbles
3-bottom markings
4- manganese
5- embossing
6- ABM or hand blown
a- side seams and circumference ring
b-3 part mould
c- Owens mark

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

For me it all hinges on Skite's response to whether the bottle is a natural SCA. If it is, then I'd say its 99.99999% certain to have been made prior to 1920. In other words ...

1. SCA = Pre 1920
2. Clear/No Bubbles = Post 1920
3. SCA or Clear but with "lots of bubbles" = Pre 1920


As for dating it by the seams or anything else, I can't comment on that aspect without seeing it personally or detailed information and/or better pictures. I'm going on what I know based on the current pics and info.


SBB

OK but he may not be able to tell you. All I was ever trying to say, without better pics, and a possible 3 part mould, the possibility of an 1890 bottle exists. Thats why I expanded my dateline. I never said it was 1890. At least I dont believe I did. The bubbles may be hard to see but then again maybe not..

If its post 1920, I think it has to be post 1932ish after prohibition which was timekillers original dateline. How could someone prove a bottle is 1940-60 if its identical to that made in 1920?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

How late did they make cork top whiskeys?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

How could someone prove a bottle is 1940-60 if its identical to that made in 1920?

By empirical (Experienced/Hands-on) observation. But not from a handful of pictures and minimal information.


SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

How late did they make cork top whiskeys?

The following is a generalization, but a relatively save timeline. If the bottle in question is in fact a later machine-made bottle, it is my opinion that it would date to no later than about the early 1940s.

Because of this wide span of use and popularity, the presence of a cork accepting finish is not indicative of age for the majority of bottles made up until at least the 1920s - mouth-blown or machine-made. The utility of cork closures for dating is that certain types of machine-made bottles made the transition from cork accepting to screw-thread (or other non-cork) finishes primarily from the 1920s into the mid-1930s. The bottle types that mostly made the switch during this era are a large majority of medicinal/druggist, food, and ink bottles; the majority of liquor/spirits bottles; and some non-alcoholic, non-carbonated beverage bottles, though there are exceptions with just about all these categories. Cork is still commonly used for sealing bottles containing wine and champagne, occasional "higher end" liquor/spirits bottles (i.e., single malt Scotch), and rarely some specialty food product bottles.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe we are expecting too much to make an ID by a picture and expect to explain it all to the readers. I also understand how bickering can occur with those so passionate about the hobby. But it seems in the end we get it right and thats whats most important.

I have a ton of bottles in my warehouse and I used to belong to a bottle club. I admit I dont look at them or display them any more. Some of my knowlege may be outdated but I just cant imagine this being a 1960's bottle but they claim to be experts. Did they not see the purple tint or the 3 part mould? They must have seen the cork top. Ill check back and thanks for helping. I was never trying to drum up support, only looking for the correct ID and learn something along the way.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have many ABM cork tops. I have found a few Prohibition whiskey bottles with cork tops but they are mostly screwtops. As far as I know, all Prohibition bottles are marked Federal Law. So its before or after. Im just not sure how they can call it 1940-1960's by the pictures alone. The link is posted on the other forum so maybe they will come over and explain because I dont get it..


(Im trying to do my editting as fast as i can).