Any lawyers around? Suggestions for writing up a formal search request

[Prime]

So I'm eventually going to have to search on private property, and I'd like to write up a legal agreement first that everyone involved gets to sign and I'm asking for suggestions on how to word it.

 

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[The.Boomer]

I have a law degree, but I'm not a lawyer. I work for the Govt. so I can't take private work. But I'll tell you now I really doubt you'll get a lawyer to do this kind of work for free, since it carries a Liability hazard inherent within it. That said, Since you'll no doubt have to pay for the service, using a in state Lawyer would be best as they would be familiar with all the applicable Federal, state, and local municipality laws. And you should never hire a Lawyer willy nilly. Just as you wouldn't wanna pay a mechanic for shoddy work, you'll want a lawyer who you can have a reasonable amount of trust that he'll perform his duties well.

 

[G.I.B.]

I have to vote on this being a bad idea, and not just because you will have to talk to a lawyer, but for another reason.

People are more likely to say sure, go ahead and play with your metal detector, just don't damage anything, or let the cows out...that sort of stuff.

You thrust a legal document in front of their face and you will almost always be rejected and told no thanks.

 

[deepskyal]

I think you'd end up with too much mumbo-jumbo if a lawyer writes that up...and you'd probably turn off a lot of potential people that would normally let you hunt....except now you want them to sign some formal agreement.

I wouldn't worry about a written agreement unless you're thinking a cache hidden somewhere you'd want to split. Otherwise...It's just nickle and dime stuff.

Al

 

[Sandman]

I agree with Guy In Back on this one. Years ago we could "play" with our metal detector digging coins outta the dirt and nobody cared. Course we never advertised what we where finding and people didn't want to sue ya at the drop of a hat. Now that the word is out, everyone thinks we are digging up the Holy Grail.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Did this property owner specifically ask for such a thing? I concur with the others. Do not show up at someone's property with a "contract for them to sign". That's the fastest way to get a "scram". I mean, think of it: If a perfect stranger showed up at YOUR door with a contract for you to sign, what would YOU do? You'd tell them to get lost, right?

The best approach is a warm smile and casual talk. I like to "bump into them" when I "just happened" to see them out mowing their yard or sitting on their porch. Tell them you're researching the history of the neighborhood for an article you're writing (or some other such yarn), and you learned that there was a stage-stop here, or blah blah blah. Show them some wheaties and a barber you found at the vacant lot down the street. Muse that there's more in the other yards on this street. Morph that into "is it ok if I check the yard with my detector?" blah blah

 

[BamaBill]

Yeah, the liability/permission form is a great idea, but these guys are right. It just won't work and will get no's real fast. About 95% of my searches are private property and the best way to get people to agree is chat them up (like one of the other guys suggested) and work around to asking if it would be ok. For one thing it should give you a fairly clear idea of who your dealing with and if you get a bad feeling about it, just walk away. A permission slip isn't going to guarantee anything anyway. They could still call the law and claim you made them sign it under duress or any number of other cockameemee reasons. Also, don't forget to look at the property to see if its a manicured lawn that somebody is taking good care of. If it is don't bother to ask. Also, don't ever mention treasure or caches or coins. Your best bet is to say your searching for history, you're saving history (make sure save everything you found to show them- like the metal matchbox, the thimble, you don't have to show them the coins unless you want to, but be prepared for them to lay claim to them). If you say anything that indicates you're looking to take away something of value, you will get either a no or you'll have them watching you, or as soon as you do find something you'll have a police officer tapping on your shoulder asking you what you found. There's good stuff to be found on private property, but ya gotta know how to go about it.

 

[airborne1092]

Why not get the property owner involved to proliferate the hobby? See if they have any kids or grandkids and see if they can get them a junior MD to help you out - teach them the hobby. If your intent is really to preserve history or what not, then it shouldnt be a problem. If you know of a cache then you prolly should go 'night-ops' style! I guess if they're not even the property owners, you could approch the 'owner' instead of the tenant...

 

[Prime]

It's a cache search, here is how things went: A guy on my "sources to talk to" list just happened to tell me where he thinks it's hidden, I don't know WHY he didn't dig it up himself but I'm willing to play ball anyways. It just happens to be on his next door neighbor's property. So my source guy wants to tag along to show me the spot(it's a big area, really big). If I do find something and just smuggle it away, then the property owner will surely find out eventually from "Mr.Source" and then I'll be screwed. If I DON'T take the source along with me on the search but do ask the owner.....then the owner will talk to him eventually and mention it. Then he'll be all like "he went there without me? what a back-stabber" and he'll blab it out to the property owner. And that could get really ugly.

Furthermore, the source has a view of the area and if, for the sake of argument, I stealthily made my way onto the opposing property, he could spot me.

It just all played out kinda unexpectedly. I guess I need to take a trip to a local law school and see if I can get some assistance there.

 

[The.Boomer]

"IF" Air borne is suggesting night ops as in at night without permission. I strongly caution Airborne that suggesting illegal activities is against the terms of service here at T-Net. And I strongly caution you that Going onto private property with intent of commiting a crime is criminal trespass, a misdemeanor. The crime would be to Remove anything that is not yours from the property would be robbery, a felony and if the cops wanna be hard a$$ they could charge you with many many more crimes like if your carrying any thing that could possibly be construed as a weapon and you could get it bumped up to a class A felony along with possesion of burglary tools with intent etc.... etc....

Night OPs is definately a bad Idea.

 

[G.I.B.]

...you got the machine, the neighbor knows about where it is, the other guy owns the land...

Sounds like it's time for a couple of beers and a three way split. You work the machine and they do all the digging.

 

[BamaBill]

Yep, a third of something is always better 'n all of nothing. This definitely a tricky situation and I don't think there is any easy answer. Problem is the landowner could reneg at any point and call it all his. I heard of a situation like this before and the TH'er just walked away rather than give it to the landowner. If you were able to talk the guy into it I would be sure to get your three-way split right when it was recovered. Problem is, the minute the landowner is privy to this, what's stopping him from getting a detector of his own and saying no thanks, I'll search it myself.

 

[lou423]

If you get permission to search, then go and detect.
If you find some "good stuff", offer the land owner some of the finds, ask him or her to go with you, if you have another detector. lend it to him.
If you go with a legal document, you will be sending a bad sign.
Offer the other person half of your cache finds, if you should find one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Prime, I know this is not directly related to your question of whether contracts are needed (I still think they're not), but as to your type hunt: "Cache stories" are a dime a dozen. If I had a dollar for everyone who's convinced they know where a stash was buried, I'd be rich. Sure, go ahead and look. But just be aware, that stories get embellished over time, and you sometimes have to treat them with a grain of salt. After 30+ yrs. of this, I've gotten to the point that whenever I hear someone saying they know where a treasure might be buried, I don't put much stock in it. Unless it's first-hand knowledge, or other such primary source info, I won't chase too hard. Whenever it boils down to "someone told someone, who told someone, who told someone, blah blah blah", I don't get too exited. Been there/done that too many times.

 

[Prime]

Yeah Tom I hear ya. I'm fully aware that this could turn out to be nothing. But it also "could" be there so I have to get all the parties involved to agree on a split before any digging starts, just as a precaution. Right now I'm just playing along to see where this thing goes. Thanks for all the feedback guys.