Aquanut, A possible cabin fever project or Adventure.

[old man]

John, I know an insurance adjuster who had a claim for torn shrimp nets. Apparently something was also brought up in the torn net that is very old. When the insurance man went to the dock looking for the boat Captain, he ran into a very old boat Captain and he told him who is was looking for and why. ( The Old boat Captain was not the guy he was looking for and probably didn't even fish anymore.) The word I got is that the old boat Captain said this, of the Captain the insurance man was looking for. " That stupid SOB, everyone knows not to put your nets down there. There's an old very old wreck called the "JESUS MARIA" at that location."

Now this could be absolutely nothing other then some old timbers on the bottom. Or it could be the only Jesus Maria that I know of that is suppose to be sunk North of Florida and South of SC. JESUS MARIA sunk 1589 carrying treasure.

The insurance agent has the GPS numbers if some people want to WORK TOGETHER and survey the site ? From what I've been told this wreck is not in the Bahama Channel and is not in extremely deep water.

I would call this an Adventure. Not a Treasure Hunt, but who knows what is there until someone looks ?

 

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[Salvor6]

Old man, you are talking about possibly the richest fleet in the world. When I was partners with Tim Swichkowski we sent a researcher, Dr. Lawrence Feldman to the archives to get info on this fleet. He came back with 5,000 pages of documents including eyewitness accounts and the manifest of the four largest galleons that sank. There were a total of 14 ships that sank in this storm. The fleet sailed up the Bahama Channel and was near the FL/GA boarder when they sank. The Jesus Maria alone is worth about $1.2 billion (that's right) today. The Santo Domingo broke up at sea and sank with all hands. Over 5 million pesos in registered treasure was lost. There was no salvage attempt by the Spaniards. Herbo Humphries searched for the fleet but was unsuccessful. They are thought to lie in deep water.

Why did the old boat captain call his snag site the "Jesus Maria"?

 

[G.I.B.]

I'm up for an adventure.

 

[old man]

Old man, you are talking about possibly the richest fleet in the world. When I was partners with Tim Swichkowski we sent a researcher, Dr. Lawrence Feldman to the archives to get info on this fleet. He came back with 5,000 pages of documents including eyewitness accounts and the manifest of the four largest galleons that sank. There were a total of 14 ships that sank in this storm. The fleet sailed up the Bahama Channel and was near the FL/GA boarder when they sank. The Jesus Maria alone is worth about $1.2 billion (that's right) today. The Santo Domingo broke up at sea and sank with all hands. Over 5 million pesos in registered treasure was lost. There was no salvage attempt by the Spaniards. Herbo Humphries searched for the fleet but was unsuccessful. They are thought to lie in deep water.

Why did the old boat captain call his snag site the "Jesus Maria"?

"Why did the old boat captain call his snag site the "Jesus Maria?"
Pete that is a Great Question. Since I can probably safely assume that his relatives did not originally come from that area in the late 1500's ? It is either a wide guess on the part of this 80 something year old boat Captain. Or there is a possibility that sometime in this boat Captains life time of fishing. Someone that he knew or possibly him. Drug a fishing net over that SNAG and something with the name " Jesus Maria" got caught in his net.

My WAG ( Wild Ass Guess ) is that this old man did not simply dream up the name of the snag. I had to look the name up, when I heard it. I had never heard of the Jesus Maria. I doubt very much that the insurance agent ever heard the name before. ( He is not a diver or treasure hunter. )
Pete my guess is that since all the local commercial fisherman knew that there was a Snag in this area and therefore should not have had their nets out dragging the bottom. That at some point in the past, a local commercial fisherman to this area. Snagged his nets and tore them on this snag or wreck and that when he brought his nets back to the surface. Something with the name " Jesus Maria" was in the net. Could it have been the Ship's Bell? I have no idea, but it certainly sounds like a viable Adventure for some people from the Cookout.
I would suggest that you see if you can find someone with a boat that can go 15 to 20 miles off shore. A side scan sonar unit and some dive gear. ( I can provide a Professional drop video camera. )I probably may still be in radiation treatment, depending if you guys put something together and when. But I can put you in touch with the guy with the GPS numbers. ( actually I already have them, but the insurance agent would have to be part of any survey or salvage.

 

[huntsman53]

but the insurance agent would have to be part of any survey or salvage.
[/B]

I hate to butt in but why would the Insurance Agent have to be part of the survey or salvage? He or she did not find a possible wreck. They only assessed an Insurance Claim which may or may not have been paid out by the Insurance Company they represent! The person that possibly has rights to be part of the survey or salvage is the boat Captain whose' nets got snagged on the possible wreck and surely not the Insurance Agent!


Frank

 

[old man]

I hate to butt in but why would the Insurance Agent have to be part of the survey or salvage? He or she did not find a possible wreck. They only assessed an Insurance Claim which may or may not have been paid out by the Insurance Company they represent! The person that possibly has rights to be part of the survey or salvage is the boat Captain whose' nets got snagged on the possible wreck and surely not the Insurance Agent!


Frank

Frank, I can think of 3 very good reasons why the insurance agent should be involved.
#1. I never would have even known about this wreck or the gps numbers if the insurance agent did not share that information with me.

#2. The insurance agent is a friend and wants to be involved.

#3. If the agent wants to share with us, why be greedy ? Without him we wouldn`t even know about this wreck and we don`t even know if it is valuable at this point.
But more importantly. I don`t give up the location without him being involved.

 

[Salvor6]

Here we go again. I have a chart where I plotted the daily position of the Jesus Maria after she left Havana based upon the captain's logs and it should be about 30 miles off shore in 750' deep waters. That's why I abandoned my efforts to find this ship. Even if I found it, Spain would claim it as a soverign warship. I don't have the resources to fight this in court. Odyssea lost and anyone finding a part of the 1589 fleet will also loose. unless you can identify it as one of the merchant Nao's that sank with the fleet.

 

[huntsman53]

Frank, I can think of 3 very good reasons why the insurance agent should be involved.
#1. I never would have even known about this wreck or the gps numbers if the insurance agent did not share that information with me.

#2. The insurance agent is a friend and wants to be involved.

#3. If the agent wants to share with us, why be greedy ? Without him we wouldn`t even know about this wreck and we don`t even know if it is valuable at this point.
But more importantly. I don`t give up the location without him being involved.

I did not mean to make you defensive! However, I wonder if the Insurance Agent is going to cut the boat Captain in on the survey and salvage because if it were not for him, the Insurance Agent would not have the GPS coordinates of which the Captain had no real obligation to divulge. The Insurance Company may require where it happened but that information could be given as 25 miles East Southeast of Savannah and that would suffice. It is all a moot point if Pete is correct and it is likely that he is!


Frank

 

[ARC]

An estimate of "not in extremely deep water"... would be what ?

 

[old man]

An estimate of "not in extremely deep water"... would be what ?

ARRC, without giving away the depth of water por location at this time. Because as Pete said,
" why bother because if something is there. Spain will come after it."

I will say this. I have dove deeper on scuba gear ( 150 ft. Went a little to deep on a wall in the Bahamas for a very short period of time. ) and it is not as deep as the 28 mile wreck off of Atlantic City, N.J.

 

[aquanut]

Old Man, First and foremost, the insurance agent, boat captain and anyone involved should certainly share in the adventure. Greed is a nasty thing. Secondly, lets see if the coordinates are in diveable waters. Thirdly, we have friends in that area that may be interested in this project, so lets see what they might say. I would love to follow up on this as it seems a very good lead. Do you think there could be any interest from investors?

 

[aquanut]

Old Man... Additionally, would you email the coordinates to me so I can plot them on a chart. I would like to see where this sight is...

 

[old man]

Old Man, First and foremost, the insurance agent, boat captain and anyone involved should certainly share in the adventure. Greed is a nasty thing. Secondly, lets see if the coordinates are in diveable waters. Thirdly, we have friends in that area that may be interested in this project, so lets see what they might say. I would love to follow up on this as it seems a very good lead. Do you think there could be any interest from investors?

John, it is diveable. I agree about the greed factor. As far as the investors?
#1. You would have to survey the site and make sure it is worth it to any investors I know, before they would get involved.
#2. I turned all contact with my investors over to another partner, until I finish hospital visits and then radiation treatments which start in 2 weeks and will go on 5 days a week for 8 weeks. I don`t have the time to devout to anything else right now.

 

[hobbit]

I am very interested in this area. I have said for years it is only matter of time for a galleon to be found in Georgia. I would be careful of this insurance man though. It sounds like he is talking about 100 feet plus deep. Not to many boats shrimp that deep off Georgia. For a hang-up to be common knowledge it would have to be one hell of a hang-up. That is like 50 miles offshore at least. I am not sure how long trawlers have been going for deep water shrimp in Georgia, but there cannot be to many 80 year old shrimp boat captains with knowledge of the bottom conditions 50 miles off the Georgia coast. Shoot there cant be to many shrimp boat captains at all who know the bottom that far offshore of the Georgia coast.

 

[ropesfish]

Old Man (Ed) - Good luck with those radiation treatments, amigo. The folks on this board have had some good luck beating that illness, and I'll say a prayer that you kick it's ass right on out of your life!

 

[old man]

Old Man (Ed) - Good luck with those radiation treatments, amigo. The folks on this board have had some good luck beating that illness, and I'll say a prayer that you kick it's ass right on out of your life!

Ropefish, thanks for the pep talk. I did not mean to imply that I am seriously ill. I only have something that is a pain in the ass and takes up time that I would rather use doing something else.

Hobbit, I did not say this wreck is 50 miles off shore. All I said, is that a boat would be needed that could go around 20 miles off shore. I also did not say the depth of water was 150 feet or more. ( it isn`t ).

This may also be nothing more then just a pile of old timbers, not a treasure wreck.

 

[ivan salis]

psst -- the turning area where the old Spanish treasure fleets turned east on the ocean currents to go back to spain was reportedly off the fla / ga border area . .. in my neck of the woods -- off of Amelia Isand's northern tip there is s a nasty bit --called pelican shoals * its a natural "ship killer" trap for sailing vessels..........lots of shrimpers out of the Mayport (Jacksonville) area and Amelia Island area

once you know the depth just check your charts for that depth .... shrimpers have o say within certain depths --their nests are limited as to how far down they can go..typically fairly shallowish

 

[SADS 669]

Warm, clear water, anything up to 200 ft is easily done on scuba ( I do it all the time) you get a bit of a buzz but professionals deal with that all the time. It's only dangerous if you don't manage your supply of air, ie have a spare tank or tanks with you or next to you on the bottom all the time and some tanks with anO2 hang tank 100% available overhead for deco.

Drifting deco at this depth because of currents does cause danger though ( book called " the last dive" describes the issues.) got it from Darren ha ha........


I will gladly help if a deep diver is useful....

Ps , old Man best wishes from the south........

 

[ivan salis]

oh I have little doubt there are some Old Spanish treasure shipwrecks of value in less than 100 feet deep water or so-- off the near shore area fla / ga border area --12 miles or less out * area off of Amelia Island ---

oh guys my records show --1589 fleet --of 100 vessels ----the jesus maria * a merchant nao of 400 tons captained by --Francisco Salvago -- Owned by Domingo Sauli and was loaded in mexico ---it was reported as wrecked at about 30 degrees lat --(roughtly off the gauna river park area ) in about 30 (brazas's) * fathoms --or 180 feet of depth

so off gauna river park look at about 180 foot depth --good luck

bonus info -- 1641 fleet --- at 30 degrees (in the roughly same area) there were 5 vessels lost from the 1641 fleet --4 naos (no survivors reported) wrecked ashore (likely in very shallow water) and a patache was found with a few survivors 5 leagues (13 miles at 2.6 miles per league) drifting offshore

since ships of those days --used visual "dead reckoning" to navigate when there was land close by they would have been within visual range of land so focus your search efforts accordingly

so for the 1589 * JESUS MARIA --off guana river park --within visual range of land --- say 12 miles--- looking for 180 foot of depth of water (or close to it) -- now you got a starting point..your welcome --AND THE 4 NAO'S OF THE 1641 FLEET * IN SHALLOW WATERS OFF THE GUANA PARK AREA and when you find THEM ... do not forget your friend Ivan..

 

[old man]

oh I have little doubt there are some Old Spanish treasure shipwrecks of value in less than 100 feet deep water or so-- off the near shore area fla / ga border area --12 miles or less out * area off of Amelia Island ---

oh guys my records show --1589 fleet --of 100 vessels ----the jesus maria * a merchant nao of 400 tons captained by --Francisco Salvago -- Owned by Domingo Sauli and was loaded in mexico ---it was reported as wrecked at about 30 degrees lat --(roughtly off the gauna river park area ) in about 30 (brazas's) * fathoms --or 180 feet of depth

so off gauna river park look at about 180 foot depth --good luck

Wow Ivan, your reseach is spot on with where the gps numbers could be. I also checked the snag chart that I bought from that commercial fishers relative in Charleston about 7 years ago. It appears that this snag is on that chart, along with 2 other snags within about 5 miles of it, but all of them separated by 4 or 5 miles.
Did any other ships in that fleet go down within site of each other?

Then again they could all be nothing but old fishing boats that sank.