Be careful collecting in FL

[Flex68]

An article from the Tampa Bay Times....looks like a bunch of folks got popped by FWC for collecting/buying artifacts.
Sad stuff, and with the 'criminals' they netted, a pretty pathetic way to spend state money.



North Florida arrowhead sting: What's the point? | Tampa Bay Times

 

[gsxraddict]

reading this story really upset me.

here we have drug dealers everywhere, and the state is more focuses on people collecting indian artifacts. They never even actually caught anyone digging!

Some guy killed himself over all this, what a sad story.

One guy with 200+ felony counts, he'd be more likely to see the light of day in freedom again if he killed someone. There is something seriously wrong with that.

 

[dlos]

Interesting read, feel bad for those people, sucks. For me, this article reaffirms my personal belief that collecting is enough, no need to buy or sell this stuff.

You can't make sense of these laws for the most part. No digging, seems simple enough and combined with "on state or federal lands" further narrows it down making it even more clear. However, if the law says "you were caught digging" that's what gonna stick even if you didn't ever lay a spade to the ground. The article points out a combo of ridiculous laws and unethical LE it seems who said these guys were doing things they deny doing.

It is sad that drug dealers and murderers may get off easier in some cases. To even be treated as one of the former categories by men fully dressed as if they were going on the Osama Bin Laden raid is outrageous. Even if these people did everything the FWC claims they did, those actions do NOT require weapons and the crimes, felonies or not, are completely non-violent. Men and their toys....flexing their muscle - scaring innocent people and ruining lives....

 

[Jon Phillips]

Old news, but glad to see a new article pop up that actually shows how heavy-handed the whole operation was, and how ridiculous the whole law is.

The 50 year old rule is beyond stupid.

Read the comments on that story...besides a few trolls, and some people that obviously didn't read the whole story, most people agreed on what a massive waste of time and money the whole thing is.

It is also apparent that these people were targeted and arrested because the people that were actually doing the "looting" couldn't be caught....

But hey....once the swat team is all "suited up" somebody's door has to be kicked in, and their wives harassed!

 

[monsterrack]

That is just a sin and a shame for any state to go that far with someone's hobby.

 

[painterx7]

Omg I love my country but fear my government !!!! A few of my friends got caught shooting a duck 10 minutes after legal time they took their guns and fined them 600 each plus no hunting till 2015 .... While we caught a crackhead stealing tools from the job site red handed he still not in jail and we still have not got the tool back yet funny his crime was a month before the duck hunters ... They only go after good people who they know will pay the fines that's my point !!! And I can go on and on about our great government but I will stop . So sorry to read this story

 

[SCrocks]

At some point private collecting of artifacts will be a crime. Gov. wants control over everything and the way things are looking a lot of people in this country don't seem to mind if they do.

 

[painterx7]

Smoking mirrors !!! All they do is take rights away but know one cares I refuse to vote one crook in after another I mean come on who spends 12 mill on campaigning for a job that pays under 200 k a year and 12 mill is a small number

 

[SCrocks]

I believe at some point you will be giving notice to bring all relics to the court house to be turned over to the Gov. Then they want have enough room to store all of it so they will dump them in the land fill. That sounds about right.

 

[painterx7]

They can pry my artifacts and guns from my dead fingers lol .... And yes that sounds right the land fill yep we will b sneaking out there going through the garbage haha

 

[Flex68]

I believe at some point you will be giving notice to bring all relics to the court house to be turned over to the Gov.

Very possible and scary scenario.
England and Australia did it with guns......

 

[SCrocks]

I forgot - The top Gov. officials would pick out want they want first for there collections before they bust up the rest before dumping into the land fill.

 

[gunsil]

ALL this business about NA relics has gotten way out of hand!! There are so many artifacts languishing in our museums that will NEVER be studied or seen by the public it will make one's head spin!! The American Museum of Natural History in NYC has boxes and boxes in rooms and rooms that have never even been opened, and some have been there for a hundred years. When I was a boy they used to sell arrow points in the museum gift shop and they were real ones that had been donated to them. I got many nice ones for a quarter each, and some larger ones for fifty cents each. We call it "selling" but museums call it "deacquisitioning" and they can do it at will. Some of you may remember about 20 years or so ago when the Museum of the American Indian was moved from NYC to Washington DC. There was a huge auction of many fantastic relics, all sold legally to the public. Perhaps if the notice of this sale and the results were sent to every congressman in every state government and the federal government some of these assinine laws would or could be overturned. It will require activism of the citizens to cause an end to all this stupid and unnecessary government regulation. The same applies to most civil was relics. I doubt if there are any established museums in this country who have any interest in acquiring another common US belt plate or any minnie balls. There are thousands and thousands of CW relics in museums that never see the light of day.

 

[GatorBoy]

The sad fact is a lot of unsavory people did alot of unscrupulous things when the idea occurred to them there was serious money in the ground in the form of artifacts.
It was no coincidence that this all started to blow up and become visible to many at the same time the internet did.
The buying and selling was at the root of this mess.
Several of these folks had entire websites dedicated to the sale of artifacts.
I don't agree with how it was done but tactically speaking I can understand going after the head of the snake.
If these items never appeared to be a legitimate source of income none of this would have happened. JMO .. Its my experience when government officials are forced to deal with a problem the path of least resistance is what will be taken... In other words... just make it go away.

 

[dlos]

The sad fact is a lot of unsavory people did alot of unscrupulous things when the idea occurred to them there was serious money in the ground in the form of artifacts.
It was no coincidence that this all started to blow up and become visible to many at the same time the internet did.
The buying and selling was at the root of this mess.
Several of these folks had entire websites dedicated to the sale of artifacts.
I don't agree with how it was done but tactically speaking I can understand going after the head of the snake.
If these items never appeared to be a legitimate source of income none of this would have happened. JMO .. Its my experience when government officials are forced to deal with a problem the path of least resistance is what will be taken... In other words... just make it go away.

I agree with Gator's take on why this all started, $$. I have good friends with whom I go out hunting with that purchase pieces for big money, I don't get it. Another guy, whom I won't even speak to anymore is by far the worst and worse yet a propagator of some of the types out there looting because he pays them to go out looking, disgusts me.

 

[painterx7]

Yes I would kick there ass for that no respect for anything ... I know of several burial places I could dig no problem but I will not unless construction is going to ruin it I take what nature gives me !!

 

[SCrocks]

I have never bought or sold any artifacts. Don't have any problem with those who do. If a person has some super artifacts and gets big bucks for them I think it's great. It's how they got the artifacts that's the question for me. Grave digging/looters/trespassers should be jailed/fined or knowingly buying looted artifacts. Some places/sites should be protected. But picking up isolated finds along rivers and lakes or on private property should not be a matter that concerns Gov. The county I grew up in many sites are destroyed by progress all the time. No big concern as long as the tax money keeps coming in. The national forest around here are just tree farms for the gov. They clear cut /doze loading docks and logging roads all through them and you can't pick up an arrowhead. Surprised they still let you deer hunt them. I guess If they could find a way to tax the artifacts you find there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm right there with you on everything you said..
Just want to toss in... how can you ever really know where something came from? for that matter how can you know where it didn't come from?
That's rhetorical.. Just saying

 

[SCrocks]

At some point the wolves will emerge from the sheep. And when they do shoot them.

 

[scotto]

The sad fact is a lot of unsavory people did alot of unscrupulous things when the idea occurred to them there was serious money in the ground in the form of artifacts.
It was no coincidence that this all started to blow up and become visible to many at the same time the internet did.
The buying and selling was at the root of this mess.
Several of these folks had entire websites dedicated to the sale of artifacts.
I don't agree with how it was done but tactically speaking I can understand going after the head of the snake.

Spot on Gator.

Bottom line, artifacts were looted then re-sold. Would people get in trouble for selling stolen TV's from Best Buy? You know it.

I don't agree with how they arrested some of these people. They should have brought them before a judge years ago and told them what would happen to them and given them a warning. Some of these guys were guilty of knowingly buying looted artifacts, and some probably didn't know (or asked questions like they were afraid to know). But to rush into their homes like these old guys were killers or something and handcuff their wives, holy $h!t. That won't get the public behind you. A couple may have deserved that kind of treatment, but not all.

I have never sold a single piece I have found and never will. I only collect on private property with permission. I guest teach kids at a local school and I have had many pieces donated to me for teaching them. I have bought some field grade points for those frames, and if the stuff I bought was gone, I'd be out $175.00 tops, for all of it put together.

Ebay is ruining this hobby with all the fakes on it. It drives the prices of legit pieces up, and there are scammers who autheniticate points as well and people are paying for an opinion, and sometimes a "swayed opinion" via a shady dealer's checkbook. But try and tell buyers that they are undoubtedly buying fakes and you won't make friends with them.

A couple of the huge Clovis points that went for HUGE bucks recently are known to be fake, but if you get a bunch of guys to paper them, you're buying one expensive lie.

However some people who see that they could make huge money by digging up one of these points - well it's like winning the lottery if they do, and so they try. If they dig one grave and find some pots and other artifacts and it pays them decent money, chances are they'll keep taking the risk.