Beales companions

bigscoop · Sep 20, 2012

franklin,
I don't think the entire story was a hoax, but I do believe a great deal of the story couldn't be told in complete factual detail. Reb has often stated that he feels the pamphlet was a cover story and I think a great deal of it was, because it had to be. When I think of the author I think of him as being a desperate tattle-tell of sorts, someone who badly desired to bring something to light, possibly to his own benefit, but couldn't without shedding light on perhaps his own guilt and/or participation. I think the pamphlet was simply the releasing of a burden. Someone recently stated the knowledge is power, but there are times when knowledge can also be a most troublesome and bothersome burden. I think this is possibly the case with our unknown author.

Justintime · Sep 20, 2012

The St.Louis letter arrived.The key to the key. Sealed in this place. He would get the key when box,was forcibly opened 1832. He got the letter before ten year,term of holding. So when ,time was up, He would know were the key was,and How to use it. The Box. The,bullets was with the Gun. The lapse of time, previous lapses. The pamphlet,was a attempt to ,bring to Light the Key. The,Key is the Declaration of Independence for2. Just to count the DoI,is a intimate process, alot of time. Why change keys. Some type of DOI, with exact location. Justsayn Justintime

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

franklin said:
Bigscoop, That is in the middle of page number 4, last part of the second paragraph.

Some of it reads talking about a communication later from Beale or one of his party but mostly about the "KEY"

"......to furnish a key by which the papers would be fully explained. As the failure to do either actually occurred, and the promised explanation has never been received, it may possibly remain in the hands of some relatives or friend of Beale's, or some other person engaged in the enterprise with him. That they would attach no importance to a seemingly unintelligible writing seems quite natural, but their attention being called to them by the publication of this narrative, may result in eventually bringing to light the missing paper.

By all of this he means the letter to be delivered June, 1832 with the "KEY" or explanation---not an unintelligible piece of paper.

Exactly....he's is talking about the key, and about it being an unintelligible piece of paper, and he appears quite certain of that. He calls it, "a seemingly unintelligible writing" the first time and a "missing paper" in his second reference. What then, might we have in front of us that would appear to be a seemingly unintelligible writing? Certainly not a book, text, document, map, etc, as these items are intelligible.

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

Think about this:

If the Beale Papers were a cover story eluding to something else, as is just about the only possible alternative to a hoax now, then the author had to know "exactly" what he was trying to coverup and what he was trying to arrive at by presenting the story to the public. If his only purpose was an effort to try to locate the key then he would describe that key as best as he could without incriminating himself in the process. If he knew exactly what that key looked like he certainly couldn't describe it in any exact detail without raising suspicion upon both his story and himself. To do so would defeat the purpose of the cover story as it would certainly shout fraud right out of the gate by casting light on the fact that the author knew a great deal more of the truth then what he had written. Put yourself in his position, you're desperate to find the key and yet you can't elude to the truth in your quest to find it. If your last and only remaining option was to go public, what are your options in doing so without casting light on the real source and the truth? Just a thought to maul over.

Rebel - KGC · Sep 21, 2012

By the CW "theory" (CONFEDERATE WAR), St. Loo & Missouri were "HOTBEDS" of CSA REBELS & OUTLAWS... up to 1885;
1885 is KEY. NOW! FC Hutter (author of "BP"), was STILL alive when the REBELS met at the Arlington Hotel in 1882 to "discuss" & "plan" business; even that old REBEL, from Tenn. Frank James, was there. FC Hutter was to be the author, his cousin, JB Ward was to be the AGENT for the author, AND! You DON'T need the KEY, nor CIPHER(S). ALL of 'em and the "Inner Circle" knew the details, already; just had to hide "IT". KEY & CIPHER(S) are just a RUSE & MIS-DIRECT, as another old REBEL & LAWYER would say... Jubal Early. Sgt. NT Hazlewood was PROBABLY there for the "HART PAPERS"; HE knew where "IT" was; W/O the "BE" story...

Justintime · Sep 21, 2012

The Key would merely state the contents, with a exact,location. What was used to obtain the contents. Justsayn

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
By the CW "theory" (CONFEDERATE WAR), St. Loo & Missouri were "HOTBEDS" of CSA REBELS & OUTLAWS... up to 1885;
1885 is KEY. NOW! FC Hutter (author of "BP"), was STILL alive when the REBELS met at the Arlington Hotel in 1882 to "discuss" & "plan" business; even that old REBEL, from Tenn. Frank James, was there. FC Hutter was to be the author, his cousin, JB Ward was to be the AGENT for the author, AND! You DON'T need the KEY, nor CIPHER(S). ALL of 'em and the "Inner Circle" knew the details, already; just had to hide "IT". KEY & CIPHER(S) are just a RUSE & MIS-DIRECT, as another old REBEL & LAWYER would say... Jubal Early. Sgt. NT Hazlewood was PROBABLY there for the "HART PAPERS"; HE knew where "IT" was; W/O the "BE" story...

Maybe, but there are records of large sums of missing money in the west during the exact periods described in the Beale Papers. In fact, there are now three sources of missing money totally more then a million. Strangely, all of these people are in the east just afterwards, and often together in Richmond.

monroe35 · Sep 21, 2012

View attachment Howard's Note.pdf View attachment Comparison of Words.pdfYou are correct. You must be a Chaucer Scholar. I appreciate your questions. Chaucer is a great literary experience demonstrating the poetical works of his time. I have read the original but have not studied it. I am attaching two items: (1) Howard's Note about his goal and (2) a random selection of a few words to show that my use of the words are like the sounds in Chaucher's poetry that give rise to the list of names of men in Beale's party. monroe35.

THIS WAS INTENDED AS A REPLY TO LAST QUESTION BY ECS. I regret the error.

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

Monroe,
"a random selection of a few words to show that my use of the words are like the sounds in Chaucher's poetry that give rise to the list of names of men in Beale's party."

But, wouldn't this only be accurate if you had the correct names of the party first? As it is, and by your own explanations, by choosing different sounds and numbers, regardless how you arrived at them, you likewise arrived at list of names. Even the numbers selected were random based on yet another randomly chosen process of selection. I understand the processes used, but they are in fact just one example of the many randomly selected processes that have been applied over the years. i.e., I have this random thought of a process I can apply and this is what resulted from that random process of selection. So who were these men, exactly? Can you attach any of them to the details of the story in question? :dontknow:

By the way, as noticed on your list, there never was any mention of a Thomas "Jefferson" Beale.....the middle name Jefferson is something the Hart brothers eventually attached in place of the J. Nobody knows why or how they arrived at this. In fact, there is no proof that a Thomas J. Beale ever existed at all.

PS: Not trying to give you a hard time but I am "assuming" you believe these names are accurate? If so, I'm just trying to understand why you believe this?

monroe35 · Sep 21, 2012

Franklin, I'm with you on the paper thing. The writer referring Beale's letter to Morriss is talking about the letter from S. Louis and says if some family member or friend should receive it they would make no sense of it - it would be only a "..seemingly unintelligible writing seems quite natural." Morriss says that when he opened the box he found "2 letters addressed to him, old receipts, and some unintelligible papers with figures,,," I will have something to add here a little further down the road'

I have some photos taken in Lynchburg I would like to attach. The 3 on the left are from top - Washington Hotel ( Arlilngton Hotel); parking garage, the former location of the Miller-Clater House; and front and back of Franklin Hotel ( Norvell ), The other from top to bottom are house next to Morriss home location, now the Texas Inn; rear of Morriss lot,showing old retaining wall; and another shot to the rear of the lot. monroe35

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

....let's see how you guys twist your way around this one then;
"Unmeaning, as this had hitherto been, (cipher #2) it was now fully explained, and no difficulty was apprehended in mastering the others;..." Clearly he is admitting he had no difficulty in deciphering the others. That's right, he's even admitting it up front, just as he soon explains what it is that he's still looking for....the "unintelligible piece of paper."

If he's not talking about the other two ciphers, then what others is he referring to?

monroe35 · Sep 21, 2012

The bottom line on why I believe these names are accurate:

1. Those numbers did not appear in the Miller's tale. I kept the numbers in the same order as presented in BC3 and looked at every available poling record found in the 1810 Census. I did not look for names; I looked for the page numbers in all locations. Some did not have any of the numbers. Some had a few. When I found a page, then I looked at the "hints" and then looked for that name, whether it was one or four.

2. In the rest of BC3, I found information contained in the pamphlet. Instead of S. Louis, I found Pancore - the old name for S. Louis; 8,000 lbs of metal deposited; $1,000,000 in all; left S. Louis in May; and Tom elected captain of the group; and so on.

3. I found 7 maps in BC3 and will show 2 of them in my next thread.

4. The maps tie into another map from another source which I will share later.

5. I have found at least 4 sub-codes in BC1 that fit into my translation of BC3 that I call: lines as written; lines in numerical order; odd/even and pairs/triples.

All these things together give me the confidence that I am on the right track. (unless justintime beats me) Regards, Monroe35

bigscoop · Sep 21, 2012

franklin said:
monroe35, I talked to a lady living in Vinton, Virginia, as a little girl in the early 1930's she saw the letter addressed not to be opened until June, 1832. The man and his partner delivering the letter from St. Louis was killed by the proprietor of the Blackhorse Tavern on Tinker Creek in Roanoke. The letter had on the front "Not to be opened until June, 1832" at the bottom in small but fancy handwriting was the name "Thomas Jefferson Beale"

Bigscoop, As for the difficulty in deciphering the other two paper codes you need to finish the sentence.

Franklin,

"Bigscoop, As for the difficulty in deciphering the other two paper codes you need to finish the sentence."

Believe me, I've done way more then that. :laughing7:

You really need to study the writing styles of the C2 clear text and the pamphlet author because they are the same. Hence, as example, "no difficulty will be had in finding it"....and....."no difficulty in mastering the others....," ect. :laughing7:

You fellows are just not listening to the words as they presented and written. :icon_thumright:

monroe35 · Sep 21, 2012

Hey frankliln, I talked to her over the phone in 2011, even bought her book. monroe35

bigscoop · Sep 22, 2012

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]"....when accident revealed to him the explanation of the paper marked "2." Unmeaning, as this had hitherto been, it was now fully explained, and no difficulty was apprehended in mastering the others; but this accident, affording so much pleasure at the time, was a most unfortunate one for him, as it induced him to neglect family, friends, and all legitimate pursuits for what has proved, so far, the veriest illusion.[/FONT]"

The fact that he had decoded/mastered them all and still didn't possess the complete answer was the illusion. There is a reason he is telling his readers this.

Rebel - KGC · Sep 22, 2012

SO! WHAT was this "accident"?

bigscoop · Sep 22, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
SO! WHAT was this "accident"?

Good question. I can only assume he is making reference to the method accidentally employed? But no way to know if he is talking about something entirely different?

Rebel - KGC · Sep 22, 2012

franklin said:
The accident was him finding a key to cipher number 2 by numbering the DOI.

DUNNO... Maybe walking under a ladder resulted in a good whack upside the head or by something falling on him... the pigeons ARE bad, here in Lynchburg, Va. LOL! Then, there is a story about Jubal Early; a house fell on him; he was NOT amused... VERY PO'ed!

bigscoop · Sep 22, 2012

franklin said:
The accident was him finding a key to cipher number 2 by numbering the DOI.

If so, then what are "the others" that he also had no difficulty in mastering due to this accident?

tat2guy · Oct 28, 2012

monroe35 said:
Hello, everyone. Who were the men in Beale's group? Well I completed a solution to BC3 and presented it in a book published in 2011. I want to share with you some of that information. I worked on BC3 for many years and finally found a thread of text and 7 maps. I used "The Miller's Tale" in Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales. The reason I picked it was that The Canterbury Tales delt with a party of 30 pilgrims on a journey. Sound Familiar? I used the "Miller's Tale" because Paschal Buford owned a mill adjacent to his home and the Tavern in Montvale, VA. I decided to use the predominant sound in the last word in each numbered line taken from the code. How did the writer of the code get all the names and locations of each person in his party in such a short code? Because that information is not in the code. When I numbered the words to use, certain numbers could not be used, so I let them "drop out". Using hints from the code, I went to the 1810 Federal Census and searched each polling location and found the numbers that had "dropped out". I searched the 1820 census and could not locate any of the names in their original locations. I am attaching two pages which show the names.

I will start a new thread soon, and show how I decoded 2 of the 7 maps found in BC3. After that I will have one last thread to tell who I think Tom is, and why.
monroe35View attachment 677402 View attachment 677401