Buried Money in Portland Oregon
- Thread starter Crow
- Start date
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Crow,
Fantastic information my friend. 😁👍
You have outdone yourself 🥳🥳
Makes me want to plan a trip 😎😂😂
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Good day Crow,
After looking at all of the information, a location began to emerge…. And when looking at google earth for any signs of 2 pioneer graves within the hot zone.
All of a sudden these things poked out.
Are these things, actually the two grave of the map?
I have doubts, but who knows?
Ten feet east and 5’ down 😵💫
(And looks to be on a golf course)
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
My son has in one hand, a metal detector, and the other, the deep underground radar… 😁
He is ready to go, right now.
Maybe it is still there? 👍👍😁
He is ready to go, right now.
Maybe it is still there? 👍👍😁
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Alright, … maybe jumped the gun there…. maybe not 🤷🏼♂️
In looking up pioneer cemetery for Milwaukee, it shows it north off of Waverly Drive.
It’s full .
The other site is north east of this cemetery.
My son has a friend that might go see if those 2 things on the golf course, are graves or not.
The website on the pioneer cemetery, said it filled up quickly. Maybe the 2 graves of the map, weren’t part of the pioneer cemetery… unless the barn was as well 😎.
Idahodutch.
In looking up pioneer cemetery for Milwaukee, it shows it north off of Waverly Drive.
It’s full .
The other site is north east of this cemetery.
My son has a friend that might go see if those 2 things on the golf course, are graves or not.
The website on the pioneer cemetery, said it filled up quickly. Maybe the 2 graves of the map, weren’t part of the pioneer cemetery… unless the barn was as well 😎.
Idahodutch.
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Crow
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Idahodutch.
From what i read from historical society there several private family grave yards and some of the remains disinterred and removed to pioneer Cemetery.
The picture you show of what possibly looks like two graves? I do not know what they are? Interesting all the same.
Crow
From what i read from historical society there several private family grave yards and some of the remains disinterred and removed to pioneer Cemetery.
The picture you show of what possibly looks like two graves? I do not know what they are? Interesting all the same.
Crow
cw0909
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been following this interesting tale, found some info,not sure if it would be of use
I tried to find the streets mention in the blog, to crows maps, couldn't do it.
Portland existed only on the west side of the river. some old graves, were moved
b/c the land was marshy, to what was platted as Mount Crawford Cemetery
back in 1855, it is now Lone Fir Cemetery.I couldn't find info on when the graves
were moved, or how may.
Mount Crawford Cemetery portland oregon
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I tried to find the streets mention in the blog, to crows maps, couldn't do it.
Portland existed only on the west side of the river. some old graves, were moved
b/c the land was marshy, to what was platted as Mount Crawford Cemetery
back in 1855, it is now Lone Fir Cemetery.I couldn't find info on when the graves
were moved, or how may.
Mount Crawford Cemetery portland oregon
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dfrpg-portland-weird-squared.obsidianportal.com
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cw0909
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wonder if the probate records are still accessible from the time he was a Judge in Seattle
from the article @ Atlas Obscura
The map had been discovered a few years earlier after the death of a Seattle judge named Everett Smith.
His son, Irving, had found it among his father’s papers. At the time, Irving told the Oregon Historical
Quarterly that his father had never mentioned the map and left no written explanation, but several decades
later, Irving told the Oregonian that he learned the map had previously belonged to an indigent man whose
estate had been settled in Judge Smith’s court.
www.atlasobscura.com
from the article @ Atlas Obscura
The map had been discovered a few years earlier after the death of a Seattle judge named Everett Smith.
His son, Irving, had found it among his father’s papers. At the time, Irving told the Oregon Historical
Quarterly that his father had never mentioned the map and left no written explanation, but several decades
later, Irving told the Oregonian that he learned the map had previously belonged to an indigent man whose
estate had been settled in Judge Smith’s court.
There Maybe Could Possibly Be a Treasure Buried Under Portland, Oregon
At least according to a hand-drawn map of mysterious origin.
www.atlasobscura.com
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Crow
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Hello CW0909wonder if the probate records are still accessible from the time he was a Judge in Seattle
from the article @ Atlas Obscura
The map had been discovered a few years earlier after the death of a Seattle judge named Everett Smith.
His son, Irving, had found it among his father’s papers. At the time, Irving told the Oregon Historical
Quarterly that his father had never mentioned the map and left no written explanation, but several decades
later, Irving told the Oregonian that he learned the map had previously belonged to an indigent man whose
estate had been settled in Judge Smith’s court.
There Maybe Could Possibly Be a Treasure Buried Under Portland, Oregon
At least according to a hand-drawn map of mysterious origin.
A good point!
I learned some thing today? The word indigent? Never heard that word. I made the assumption it was another term for indigenous? I was wrong. I looked up the definition of indigent?
1. : suffering from extreme poverty : impoverished. 2. a. archaic : deficient.
We know he was Judge since 1912. I do not know the capacity of judge do they still work as lawyer when they become a judge? If not perhaps it obtained from some ones estate of some one in poverty when he acted as lawyer?
Rule 1.2 provides: “A judge shall act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the independence,
integrity, and impartiality of the judiciary, and avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety” (emphasis added).
Thus, the code of judicial conduct applies to all of a judge’s
activities, both judicial and personal and both on and off the
bench.
In general, as described by Rule 3.1, a judge must not
participate in extrajudicial activities that will interfere with the
proper performance of judicial duties, lead to frequent dis-
qualification, or appear to a reasonable person to undermine
the judge’s independence, integrity, or impartiality.
Rule 3/10 A lawyer must cease operating as a lawyer and wind up any legal practice if called on by the state to become a Judge. So if Judge Smith obtained this Map from an 'indigent estate of a person then it was before he was judge.
So we can rule out a 1930's scam when treasure hunting became popular in imagination during the great depression? The most likely time frame would be 1892 when many banks fail and their was rural depression.
It should be noted that there was various versions of the Spanish prisoner treasure swindle scam floating around in the 1890s also.
Regardless if the treasure story was fake or not. Whoever wrote the map had knowledge at least of the areas around Portland.
One other point to take note who ever the judge smith obtained it from appeared not to have profited from it?
Crow
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Now that I’ve looked at those 2 “things” a few more times. I don’t think they are graves, or headstones.
The road to Portland, from the old church, would have been, what is now, Milwaukie Avenue. (McLaughlin Blvd, did not come until much later.)
I do think the “house, the barn, and the 2 graves were all on the same property.
Orchards certainly fit with the landowners at the time, and for that area.
I couldn’t find anything specific about moving any pioneer graves, but I really don’t think the Milwaukie pioneer cemetery is where the loot got buried. Too far from Portland. Too many acres, practically all covered in streets and neighborhoods, and businesses. Parks are pretty far from Milwaukie Ave… and don’t really fit the map…. To far off the road to see the barn next to the graves.
I tried to look up the history of Llewelyn Elementary School, thinking since it’s about 80 years old, maybe the old house used to be nearer the road at that spot, and after getting removed, that then the school was built? 🤷🏼♂️
My wife attended that school for a couple years, when she was young.
So maybe the graves were moved 🤷🏼♂️.
Maybe they were grave markers for pets ?
Time for me to punt 😵💫😁
Idahodutch
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Crow
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Here is more about churches in down town Portland itself.
Portland in the mid-1800s was a frontier town with between 5 and 10,000 inhabitants. There were only five churches by 1865: Methodist, Presbyterian, Congregational, Episcopal and Catholic. A small number of liberal Christians (primarily Unitarians and Universalists who had emigrated from New England and other places “back East”) were obliged to attend these churches.
However, the existing selection of Portland churches often proved to be too conservative for these liberal Christians, and in 1860, a group of them gathered for worship services in the home of Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Frazar, where they continued to meet intermittently.
As you can see that church in question in 1865 did not have steeple. Most of the other churches was more or less much more grander affairs than the on pictured on the treasure map. Admittedly a crude rendition open for interpretation?
Here is a picture of Churches in Portland in 1870s. None of them look like the one illustrated on the map? It should be noted crude illustration on the map?
The picture below was some time after 1865 and latter 1870s. Shows four of churches in Down town Portland itself. The problem I have they all appear to have been built after the Civil war?
Many took the view that the direction indicate west from Portland itself. There are various other theories? Are they correct? All have their merits? One apparently leads to area that has graves. Canyon road known for a time as plank road. Could it been the road from memory? And possible been remembered as Pike road on the treasure Map?
I do not know? All theories are on the table. Markmar made a good point also following existing streets that followed generally the first dirt tracks that could possibly be refereed as pike road.
That is the great irony of treasure maps With out identifiable key points to work from they are open to interpretation? Add an explosion in urban growth over the landscape in the last 150 years or so we can see how easy it becomes the proverbial needle in a hay stack?
Still fun to see what clever thing people come up.
Crow
Portland in the mid-1800s was a frontier town with between 5 and 10,000 inhabitants. There were only five churches by 1865: Methodist, Presbyterian, Congregational, Episcopal and Catholic. A small number of liberal Christians (primarily Unitarians and Universalists who had emigrated from New England and other places “back East”) were obliged to attend these churches.
However, the existing selection of Portland churches often proved to be too conservative for these liberal Christians, and in 1860, a group of them gathered for worship services in the home of Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Frazar, where they continued to meet intermittently.
As you can see that church in question in 1865 did not have steeple. Most of the other churches was more or less much more grander affairs than the on pictured on the treasure map. Admittedly a crude rendition open for interpretation?
Here is a picture of Churches in Portland in 1870s. None of them look like the one illustrated on the map? It should be noted crude illustration on the map?
The picture below was some time after 1865 and latter 1870s. Shows four of churches in Down town Portland itself. The problem I have they all appear to have been built after the Civil war?
Many took the view that the direction indicate west from Portland itself. There are various other theories? Are they correct? All have their merits? One apparently leads to area that has graves. Canyon road known for a time as plank road. Could it been the road from memory? And possible been remembered as Pike road on the treasure Map?
I do not know? All theories are on the table. Markmar made a good point also following existing streets that followed generally the first dirt tracks that could possibly be refereed as pike road.
That is the great irony of treasure maps With out identifiable key points to work from they are open to interpretation? Add an explosion in urban growth over the landscape in the last 150 years or so we can see how easy it becomes the proverbial needle in a hay stack?
Still fun to see what clever thing people come up.
Crow
Ryano
Hero Member
"Pike Road" could be a clue , given that the earliest road names often reflected how they were used.
About the origins of "Pike or Turnpike", from TN TDOT.gov website:
"The idea arrived with early settlers from England. Toll gates were constructed with long pikes directed toward vehicles. A long timber or “pike” stopped traffic for the toll collection. Once the toll was paid, the pikes were then “turned” out of the way for traffic or animals to pass, hence, the term turnpike."
About the origins of "Pike or Turnpike", from TN TDOT.gov website:
"The idea arrived with early settlers from England. Toll gates were constructed with long pikes directed toward vehicles. A long timber or “pike” stopped traffic for the toll collection. Once the toll was paid, the pikes were then “turned” out of the way for traffic or animals to pass, hence, the term turnpike."
cw0909
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I think I found the site for archived probate records, & some are on microfiche
others are paper file I think you have to go there & search the files.
wonder how many probate cases did Judge smith do in his 20+ yrs on the bench
www2.sos.wa.gov
searched probate under archives tab
www.sos.wa.gov
others are paper file I think you have to go there & search the files.
wonder how many probate cases did Judge smith do in his 20+ yrs on the bench
State Archives: Search Results - Washington State Archives - WA Secretary of State
The Secretary of State is the state's chief elections officer, chief corporations officer, and supervisor of the State Archives and State Library.
searched probate under archives tab
Home | WA Secretary of State
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Crow
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CW0909 Some very good pertinent points be made well done! Some where is those archive perhaps in key to who had the map before judge smith?
Ryano made a good point also with "Pike Road" could be a clue , given that the earliest road names often reflected how they were used.
All these points can possibly help untraveled the alleged location and perhaps more information about the Provence of this alleged treasure map.
Crow
Ryano made a good point also with "Pike Road" could be a clue , given that the earliest road names often reflected how they were used.
All these points can possibly help untraveled the alleged location and perhaps more information about the Provence of this alleged treasure map.
Crow
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Crow,
About the church from Milwaukie that was relocated …. I was reading through stuff, and saw something that I missed earlier.
If the information below is correct, and the steeple was added in 1883, then maybe not the church from the map, or if the map was modified, maybe the steeple was added later?
Here is a snip of the church on the map.
Could that steeple have been added? 🤷🏼♂️
Then on the road to Portland, after getting past the house, it looks like one needs to leave the main road, and follow the side road or path, that loops around the barn, and back.
So the eastern portion of that Llewelyn property, by the golf course, and garden areas, are not out of range of the map, and still have orchards to the east. (East in this theory anyway).
The structures that were able to be seen on the enlargement, you posted has me wondering how many structures can be seen.
Idahodutch
About the church from Milwaukie that was relocated …. I was reading through stuff, and saw something that I missed earlier.
If the information below is correct, and the steeple was added in 1883, then maybe not the church from the map, or if the map was modified, maybe the steeple was added later?
Here is a snip of the church on the map.
Could that steeple have been added? 🤷🏼♂️
Then on the road to Portland, after getting past the house, it looks like one needs to leave the main road, and follow the side road or path, that loops around the barn, and back.
So the eastern portion of that Llewelyn property, by the golf course, and garden areas, are not out of range of the map, and still have orchards to the east. (East in this theory anyway).
The structures that were able to be seen on the enlargement, you posted has me wondering how many structures can be seen.
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
There was something else I was thinking about, and that was about McLaughlin Blvd.
The making of the highway came later on, and the railroad was late 1800’s according to this snip
So my thought was perhaps there was a road to Portland other than what we know as Milwaukie Ave?
Perhaps a road that was referred to as “Pike”, and could have been the early predecessor of what later became McLoughlin Blvd. and the rail lines next to it. 🤷🏼♂️
Just thoughts. 🤔
The making of the highway came later on, and the railroad was late 1800’s according to this snip
So my thought was perhaps there was a road to Portland other than what we know as Milwaukie Ave?
Perhaps a road that was referred to as “Pike”, and could have been the early predecessor of what later became McLoughlin Blvd. and the rail lines next to it. 🤷🏼♂️
Just thoughts. 🤔
markmar
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I believe, a cross on the top of the building would be the proper depiction for a church, if this would been the case.. To me all the buildings close to the " PORT " look like a mill complex or some type of factory complex.
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Behind the barn. (Ha! , nothing unusual there! Sorry.)
11?Then hash marks denoting distance to stump? Hash marks start where? A yellow lined block.
I don't see graves.
Above what looks like graves is another G /g in "get" well to confirm it is a G.
So , to go literal it looks like graues. Which means agreeing that is a u and not a v.
Any one involved German?
Graues is /= grey. Or dark. .
Both yellow and blue lines might highlite in places. Above a word here. Below a word there. Then just a random appearing line that might as well be a hand drag for all it tells.. Being both colors and not both colors together has me requestioning number of hands drawing/writing. Knowing still it was multiples.
Someone may have enhanced for clarity's sake. Then perhaps someone else added to it as they studied it. Different time frames make sense when the port is more built up in blue? Even given a tracing medium being transferred , the entire map isn't solid blue. Making yellow predate blue in the case of Port. House. Barn.
Orchard was already treed in yellow to not be enhanced. But then there was more focus on other objects within range.
And an odd barn drawn. One dimensional makes it look like a tailed ham can with an antenna , or a trolling motor handle atop.
A damaged lightning rod on the roof?A type or condition of windmill? And a corral nearest the road/trail maybe?
It's just a square or rectangular barn? a near flat roof?
11?Then hash marks denoting distance to stump? Hash marks start where? A yellow lined block.
I don't see graves.
Above what looks like graves is another G /g in "get" well to confirm it is a G.
So , to go literal it looks like graues. Which means agreeing that is a u and not a v.
Any one involved German?
Graues is /= grey. Or dark. .
Both yellow and blue lines might highlite in places. Above a word here. Below a word there. Then just a random appearing line that might as well be a hand drag for all it tells.. Being both colors and not both colors together has me requestioning number of hands drawing/writing. Knowing still it was multiples.
Someone may have enhanced for clarity's sake. Then perhaps someone else added to it as they studied it. Different time frames make sense when the port is more built up in blue? Even given a tracing medium being transferred , the entire map isn't solid blue. Making yellow predate blue in the case of Port. House. Barn.
Orchard was already treed in yellow to not be enhanced. But then there was more focus on other objects within range.
And an odd barn drawn. One dimensional makes it look like a tailed ham can with an antenna , or a trolling motor handle atop.
A damaged lightning rod on the roof?A type or condition of windmill? And a corral nearest the road/trail maybe?
It's just a square or rectangular barn? a near flat roof?
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Try a different date perhaps. A summer dry time.
There appear to be tracks leading to and through markers.
Markers may be puddles reflecting light.
(First guess was lime or sand.)
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
😂😂
Map is far from proper 🙃
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