Button-Old or Modern?

[Breezie]

Hey Gang, this afternoon I found a Saddlebred horse button, took one look at the back and decided it was a modern button because of the steel/iron back. When I got back home, I was searching horse buttons, and ran across this website, which advertised a horse button(with steel back) as being 'antique,' and dating to the mid to late 1800's. Can someone explain this to me? I was under the impression steel backed buttons were not 'antiques.' Here is the website and pics of their button:
http://www.gbbuttons.com/product/antique-brass-horse-head-sporting-button

My button is below theirs, and any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, Breezie

 

[duggap]

We have a button referred to as a sportsmans button. They can go back before the civilwar. But your first button looks newer and more modern like a blazer button. Your second one has age on it and may be a sportsman button.

 

[Breezie]

We have a button referred to as a sportsmans button. They can go back before the civilwar. But your first button looks newer and more modern like a blazer button. Your second one has age on it and may be a sportsman button.

DugGap, thanks for your reply. The first 2 pics are not my button, but one I found on the Internet that claimed it was made mid to late 1800s. The 2 at the bottom are pics of the button I found. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The button looks old Breezie but isnt it a self shank? Can we see a side view?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Steel back buttons date back to the CW era at least. But the type of button and type of shank determines the era, the backmark narrows the date. The first pic is a floppy shank. Yours looks to be a self shank, like the patent posted, but Im not sure. Is your button 1 or 2 piece?

 

[Breezie]

BCH, I was trying to clean out some of the dirt before making the pics, and the shank broke off. With all the crud, it was hard to tell about the shank, but it didn't look like a self shank. It was more like the shank in the first pic, which is why I downloaded the pic last night. It's really hard to tell now, since it is broken. I've found many blazer buttons with the self shank, and this button looked different on the back.

It is a 2-piece button. One thing that I've noticed that sets it apart from a modern blazer button is the fact it has an edge and the actual picture is inset. Thanks BCH for helping. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Even though the button looks older, I think its a self shank early 20th century. I welcome other opinions. I lost my good link on button shanks. This is the best I could find. http://www.thebuttonmonger.com/content/June 2011.pdf

I have some doubts the floppy shank is as old as they claim. Here are some steel back floppy shank, wobble shank button backs of the early 20th century. http://www.vintagebuttons.net/work.html

 

[Breezie]

BCH, You're probably right about it being early 20th century. I've about exhausted my search for a button like this, but I did find a 'sportsman' button with a similar back under the Civil War section of this site: I've listed the pics below since this website loads slowly:
http://www.bullrunrelics.com/civilwar.html

 

[BuckleBoy]

The first button in the original post is indeed a mid-1800s sporting button. I have found similar buttons in CW era sites that had no occupation after about 1870. The second button, iron-backed, is early 20th c.

Best Wishes,


Buckles

 

[Breezie]

The first button in the original post is indeed a mid-1800s sporting button. I have found similar buttons in CW era sites that had no occupation after about 1870. The second button, iron-backed, is early 20th c.

Best Wishes,


Buckles

Hello Buckles, thanks for your RSVP. I agree with you, but would like to know the 'difference' between an iron-backed mid 1800s button, as shown in the 1st pic, and an iron-backed early 20th century button like the one I found. Is the only difference the shank as BCH said? Breezie

 

[CRUSADER]

http://www.thebuttonmonger.com/products/Metal-Sporting-Button:-Horse.html
close

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The first button in the original post is indeed a mid-1800s sporting button. I have found similar buttons in CW era sites that had no occupation after about 1870. The second button, iron-backed, is early 20th c.

Best Wishes,


Buckles

Hello Buckles, thanks for your RSVP. I agree with you, but would like to know the 'difference' between an iron-backed mid 1800s button, as shown in the 1st pic, and an iron-backed early 20th century button like the one I found. Is the only difference the shank as BCH said? Breezie

I hope Buckles will help explain. You cannot date a buckle by the iron back. Here is a rusted tin back (tin plated iron) CW era button. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tin-Back-A-Confederate-CS-Button-Civil-War-/190541980193

You need to look at the type of button (1 piece or 2) the type of shank, and the backmark to determine age. I dont believe you can determine age simply by an iron back because they were made in the CW era and are still made today. Hope this helps.

 

[BuckleBoy]

The first button in the original post is indeed a mid-1800s sporting button. I have found similar buttons in CW era sites that had no occupation after about 1870. The second button, iron-backed, is early 20th c.

Best Wishes,


Buckles

Hello Buckles, thanks for your RSVP. I agree with you, but would like to know the 'difference' between an iron-backed mid 1800s button, as shown in the 1st pic, and an iron-backed early 20th century button like the one I found. Is the only difference the shank as BCH said? Breezie

Exactly. I was just referring to the two photos by the back types to communicate which one I was talking about. It is true that you cannot date a button by the material the back is made from. But the square shank molded into the back (whether brass or iron) is a 20th c. style. The mid-century 1800s types all seemed to have the loop shank as a separate piece from the back, either punched through or braised on, regardless of what material the back was made from. This is not to say that the loop shanks were not made in the 20th c. as well (They continue on to this day in cheaply made buttons). But the square, one-piece molded shanks were certainly a 20th c. phenomenon. There could be an exception or two to this general rule, but I have not seen them if there are.

Best Wishes,


Buckles