Buttons and Bullets.... updated with new picts...

[SFHunter]

Hi All,

Could use some help identifying (or aging) these buttons and bullets that I have found either at a site in Benicia, CA or a site in San Rafael, CA. Both site have history back to 1850s. (I know that does not mean that some of these items are that old, but it gives me inspiration that I can find older military relics on the west coast. (I envy the hunters in the civil war territories...

The first button was found in a park near a flag pole. (Public park since 1905, white history started in this area around 1848). Button is .9 inch or 23mm, back says "Pacific Button Co S.Fran. Cal"

This button was also found near the same flag pole and it is .57 inches or 14.5mm. Back says "T.N.Dale and Co."

These two buttons were found in Benicia, both measure around .6 inches or 15.5mm. Green one still has cloth on the back, the darker one is flattened and has no back...

Next, the two musket balls and 3 ringer were found in Benicia, really blew my mind as I never expected to find these here on the west coast. The balls measure around .5 inches and the bullet around .58 inches. NOTE added new pictures with quarter and a short of the bottom... This was found near an old arsenal building where I have found hundreds of cartridge bullets..

This button was at the San Rafael site and I could not find anything like it as the eagle does not have a scroll in its right talon. It measures around .616 inches or 15.6mm. Back is too corroded to read... It does have gold guilding (sp?) on it and has 13 stars around the eagle... added another closer shot...

Last, this shell is different the all of the other shells that I have found at the Benicia site.
It is .5 inches by 2.12 inches long. Has R F 5 81 on it and it is a center fire cartridge...

 

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[wildrider]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

First one is probably WWI...Pacific Button Co, San Francisco. Listed as Manufacturers of military, naval, railroad, transit co buttons from 1893 to 1927. Firm was owned by & co-located with B. Pasquale & Sons, military dealers. Probably didn't make buttons, but bought from Scovill. From American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates.

Second one looks like a General Staff Button from the CW...Thomas N. Dale & Co.,NYC. Merchants & importers from1840's to at least 1882. At 67 Liberty & later at 18 Warren. Listed in 1853 as importers of buttons. The b/m is on CW & later buttons...

T.N. Dale & Co./N.Y. is one of the backmarks.

From American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates.

Third and fourth look to be Great Seal buttons, once again WWI or later.

Last button in my honest opinion is a civilian button. It looks alot like the Naval buttons, but they just don't quite match up. The funky shouldered wings and straight horizontal anchor, just don't pass muster. I have seen some of these on modern blazers, so I think it has always been a popular design. Others may have differing opinions.

Yes, don't give up on old stuff. You might even find California gold coin. Just think of all the men and ships that came to CA from the east. Yes....lot's of old places.

Burt

 

[SFHunter]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

Thanks Burt...

Can anyone tell me about the casing? What about the 3ringer, is that what is called a mini ball? and are the musket balls really musket balls?

Hoss, I am dying to find a california fractional coin considering that some were made here in my home town of Benicia...

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

wildrider is nailin' it!

Additional information about the U,S,Army Great Seal buttons...

With the adoption of the Great Seal in 1783, Army buttons begin to reflect it. By 1854 all enlisted personnel wore -- and after 1902 all personnel had -- the Great Seal button, except engineer officers, who retained their distinctive branch button. Key to dating great seal buttons is the back marks... they have been around a while!

 

[nahabit]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

nice button! congrats!

 

[SFHunter]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

Thanks Jim,

Hey nahabit, it was your posts 1-2 years ago that got me into metal detecting. Thanks for posting in my thread!!!!

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

58 cal three ringer --hummm let me think--thinking civil war era---after the war they kept the guns around awhile since they were "paid" for already---sharps maybe? Ivan

 

[nahabit]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

Thanks Jim,

Hey nahabit, it was your posts 1-2 years ago that got me into metal detecting. Thanks for posting in my thread!!!!

its funny!

 

[wildrider]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

I don't know anything about the casing.

Can you give us another shot of the three ringer including the base and maybe drop a coin in the pic so we can relate to the size?

Guns are guns they used them before and after the wars for killing people and animals. While I would expect most would be newer due to westward expansion, I wouldn't doubt that many folks still had and used muskets.

Lots of neat stuff you have there.

Burt

 

[hasbeen]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

The shell casing appears to be an inside primed 45/70 rifle shell loaded in 1881 at Frankfort arsenal.

hasbeen

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: Buttons and Bullets....

your Fourth one down Reminds me of a "Ruptured Duck" Pin
in Style.

But Dosn't have spread wings.

I don't know if styles changed.

 

[dg39]

The WW1 service pin was a star rather than an eagle. same size aprox.
DG