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Can you run your car on water? Some interesting links.

rmptr said:
OK, I'm learning the difference between a fuel cell and HHO generation-on-demand by electrolysis.

I'm gonna try it...

But first gotta axe more questions so I don't ruin my truck!
Don't want to be replacing valves, cylinder heads, or pistons. ;D

It's a 00 F-150 w/ 4.2 v6 & 5speed.

My pu is a flex fuel vehicle, but will the factory FI computer compensate suitably for the addition of another volatile element to the combustion process?
What's the deal on the O2 mapping enhancer sold on the bay?

So far I can see no method of regulating the amount of HHO generated, increase or decrease, to deal with load requirements, except for the engine intake's vacuum.

Anyone got more info they could direct me to?

...Still reading!

Thanks,
rmptr
Click to expand...

Hey RMPTR,

You have asked the question that Mythbusters failed to take into account (maybe due to time constraints), when they did a piece on testing different MPG Boosters.

Just strapping on an HHO (Brown's Gas) HOD (Hydrogen on Demand) System, WILL do a couple of things for you:

The introduction of the extra Hydrogen and Oxygen will make your engine burn cooler and smoother.

There are a few extras you need to add (and heavily experiment with) to get the really BIG MPG BOOST.

If you are running just the HOD System, your O2 Sensor will show that you are running an overly lean fuel mixture, and cause the computer inject more fuel to compensate (there goes your added MPG). You need to trick your O2 Sensors and MAP or MAF Sensor. Its not that difficult to do.

First, a little class on how O2 Sensors work. The easy explanation is that they compare the in-the-pipe exhaust temperature to the external temperature, and send a signal to your engine management system to tell it whether the exhaust is fuel rich or fuel starved. It takes the external temp via the smooth body of the sensor. To trick your O2 Sensors, you can use either of two methods:

1. You can buy O2 Sensor Extensions. This artificially lengthens the thermometer and tricks the sensor into thinking the external temp is hotter.

2. Wrap tin foil around the body of the O2 Sensor, and secure it with wire or something that won't melt. This forms a little oven around your O2 Sensor achieving the same result as #1.

What these achievements do is make your car think the engine is running either a little rich or just right. This allows you to get the approximate 25-30% MPG gain.

You can trick your MAP or MAF Sensors with an easy to make gadget that plugs in between the sensor and the engine computer. An extra 10-15% gain.

Another thing you can do is add a mixture of Xylene, Acetone, and 2Stroke Fuel/Oil Additive. I don't remember the exact recipe, but if you use just the Xylene/Acetone it loses a little upper cylinder lubrication, hence the need for 2stroke additive.

All things together, you can realistically get about 45-60% MPG Gain. I warn you, that it will take months of tweaking your system, because EVERY vehicle and engine runs differently, and has different needs (amount of Baking Soda, number of chambers, current draw, etc, etc, etc).

I will tell you that it does work, but it ain't as simple and easy as some will say to get the best out of it.

Best-Mike
 

OK Gollum, the lights beginning to come on!

...so I CAN do HHO HOD which doesn't require a bomb under the hood, other than the HHO generator and it's tubing...

...but it's gonna make my engine run 'cooler & smoother'???

How will it run cooler???
(Physics not a strong point here!)

I figgered more power so 02 sensor gonna tell computer to dump more fuel to compensate???

I'm getting mixed up now...

But I can see I need to regulate both production, and flow of HHO, and meter it into the motor.

How do you determine how to fool the O2 sensor?
I ain't smarter than a computer!

Use a pyrometer in the exhaust?
That was expensive back when I drove trucks!

My Volvo had a boost guage, but no exhaust temp...
...and if is gonna run cooler with the HHO addition, how to figger which way to skew the O2 sensor.

Sheesh! CARB is gonna put me in jail for messing w/ smog system on a vehicle! Feds, too!
But that's ok.... guaranteed calorie intake, spanish lessons, and a dry bunk.

My truck's got 110k miles on it now, and running very well, so the engine is not real tight and gonna freeze up too fast if I give it a bad mix skewing the computer, but I know from personal experience you can hole a piston or burn valves in a big hurry.

What is best economical way to determine what's really going on within the motor as you are going down the road with a varying throttle setting?

I remember having a vacuum gage on a couple different old cars way back when...

LoL Ran outta gas a couple times, here and there... too busy to stop at the pump, just HAD to get to the project!... and I ended up dumping a gallon of lacquer thinner in the tank to get us rolling...
It don't run very good on THAT stuff!

But yes, I did hear up to 5% acetone will give a little kick... and more is bad.

Y'know, I got an old econoline van w a 200 cu in six in it I better experiment with, first.

If I burn up the engine in my pickup I'll be up the creek without a paddle, for sure!
No food on the table, no beer, and all that stuff!

No smog equipment on the econoline... it's a 1963.

I'll go back and read those websites you fellows have advised...

Thanks,
rmptr
 

Hey RMPTR,

I just PM'ed you.

You don't need to regulate flow. It's not that high. It's based on the vacuum draw from two different points on the engine (intake manifold and just after air cleaner). You DO need to regulate production though. You do that by experimenting with the amount of baking soda added to the water, and the amount of current you put into it.

Best-Mike
 

good afternoon Gullum:

Have you recovered from the nude solstice fertility dance with Dan etc. ?

As for my lovely white Range Rover which, according to Dan, you have agreed to will me, keep yer cotton picking fingers off of it, experiment with another vehicle even though the experiment prob. will do no harm, only good.

Sides, anyone that can afford a nice beautiful white Range Rover, doesn't need to worry about fuel prices for the near future.

p.s My son is into this, he has applied for a dealership in Tucson and has sent me tons of data. I have agreed to finance a full installation with catalytic converter/ muffler in his Toyota Tundra. If it works well enough, I will install the system in my Isuzu Trooper for back country use where there are no gasoline stations.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

After big light in sky go away, we shake our fists at the stars and throw bones in air to make light come back. It takes a while, but always works.

Dan told me we were going to just miss you. Wish I could have stayed to meet you. Maybe next time. Maybe we'll all just pile down to Sonora and pay you a visit!

What I'm talking about here should not require a new cat/muffler or any of that. Just a simple addition, that anyone can make for about $30-50.

Best-Mike
 

I've been reading some stuff, here and there, and I can't figure out why these things are not sold everywhere.

Haven't read anything yet where it damaged anyone's engine.
Can't watch all the youtube videos and stuff because I've got bandwidth probs.

If browns gas can be created by putting a battery to plates in water, couldn't a generator be run off it?

...so ALL this could link together??? solar, battery AND browns gas transport?

Sounds too simple.
Don't know why, but that makes me suspicious.

It seems like something anyone with a little mechanical skill should be able to do.

Best,
rmptr
 

I know about 25 years ago I worked at a gas station a man pulled up and said wheres the water hose , I need to fill it up. I got the hose and he stuck it in the gas tank, and filled it up :icon_scratch:. Said he was driving across the country on a test run. I figured he was running on alcohol but the car was running pretty quiet and there was a little steam coming from the exhaust. His main source must have been running hydrogen.
 

rmptr said:
I've been reading some stuff, here and there, and I can't figure out why these things are not sold everywhere.

Haven't read anything yet where it damaged anyone's engine.
Can't watch all the youtube videos and stuff because I've got bandwidth probs.

If browns gas can be created by putting a battery to plates in water, couldn't a generator be run off it?

...so ALL this could link together??? solar, battery AND browns gas transport?

Sounds too simple.
Don't know why, but that makes me suspicious.

It seems like something anyone with a little mechanical skill should be able to do.

Best,
rmptr
Click to expand...

Not just a generator, but a flame cutter (like a plasma cutter). You can find videos of this most amazing of devices on YouTube. It cuts a zillion times faster than plasma, but the cut metal is immediately cool after the flame leaves the surface.

[youtube=425,350]cx9uoixkyAg[/youtube]

Funny how few people have heard of this. HUH?

Enjoy-Mike
 

RMPTR;

I have been trying to get a handle on how much energy it takes to make how much gas, and can it be stored, or does it HAVE to be split into hydrogen and oxygen and the hydrogen stored seperately ?

My premise is that one could use wind / solar to generate the stuff, store it, then feed it to a generator / fuel cell generator round-the-clock. (fuel cell would be more efficient as I understand it because you can turn cells 'on' or 'off' depending on the load demand) Problem is I can't find the figures to determine if it is economically practical and don't have the extra cash laying around to experiment on a real scale.

There was an article on the web a while back on a guy that was basically doing just this but I can't seem to find it anymore.

As to why it isn't being sold everywhere - if it really works - goodbye Exxon !

Diggem'
 

I've HEARD of stunts like that...

You never know unless you look at it, I guess.

The guy may have had a steamer...

The Stanley was far too fast for it's brakes.

Everyone knows that Tucker didn't make it.

I watched an awesome steam launch at the lake, years ago...
And there's a bunch of old railroad guys here that do steamers.


Best,
rmptr
 

Hey Diggem,

I'm just now trying to figure this stuff out.
But Gollum seems to know a lot.

So far, I THINK, fuel cell technology requires bucks for exotic or expensive materials and probably a manufacturing process for efficiency.

The browns gas thingy is called HHO HOD for hydrogen on demand. It is consumed soon as it is generated by the electrolysis process and is NOT stored, except by kids exploding balloons, that I've seen.

Ray and metalhead put up a bunch of good sites, too.

Compared to fuel cell, browns gas is EZ!

And all this is my opinion because I've yet to try ANY of it!!!!!

You can bet I'll post a thread when I do! ;D

Best,
rmptr
 

Diggemall said:
RMPTR;

I have been trying to get a handle on how much energy it takes to make how much gas, and can it be stored, or does it HAVE to be split into hydrogen and oxygen and the hydrogen stored seperately ?

My premise is that one could use wind / solar to generate the stuff, store it, then feed it to a generator / fuel cell generator round-the-clock. (fuel cell would be more efficient as I understand it because you can turn cells 'on' or 'off' depending on the load demand) Problem is I can't find the figures to determine if it is economically practical and don't have the extra cash laying around to experiment on a real scale.

There was an article on the web a while back on a guy that was basically doing just this but I can't seem to find it anymore.

As to why it isn't being sold everywhere - if it really works - goodbye Exxon !

Diggem'
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the storage of hydrogen would be dangerous without specialized equipment. That is what filled the Hindenburg dirigible that exploded so horribly back in the 30's. It would probably require a high pressure tank to store it. Therefore, in theory, it is safer if produced "on demand" simply because the quantity at any one time would not be sufficient to cause an explosion.

Even if one could never power a vehicle exclusively on this fuel source, using it as a SUPPLEMENT should significantly reduce gasoline usage. Most of the HHO fuel cells I have seen are designed for this purpose.

I posted a video in another thread that even showed how to build one . . . except for the electrical details such as the regulation of current, turning it on and off, etc. Plus, the units which appear to produce the most HHO for the least current are pulsed at various frequencies. A simple RC circuit could probably be designed to produce the oscillation, but then again it may need to be a special sine wave instead of a simple sawtooth wave.
 

I SAW that, Smee!

Good stuff, but I don't have the bandwidth to do videos...

Can we send you on a mission? ;D

Can you get us a circuit diagram and callout sheet for the Pulse Width Modulator?

Thanks,
rmptr
 

Been digging some more

The guys that set up a solar power Hydrogen generation system are at http://www.siei.org/ Bottom line for them - it works, but is $$$$$-ey and inefficient.

Browns gas - the only real watch-outs I have come across are 1) issues with cars O2 sensors trying to "correct" the exhaust back to lower mileage and corrosion of valves & exhaust components due to the continuous water present in the exhaust.

would love to try one of these systems out on my old chevy pick-up..........................

Diggem'
 

Dirt Fishin Dale said:
I have a friend talking about his car that will get 100+ MPG
I am still trying to figure out the drawing he sent, as well as him. :wink:
Click to expand...
indexCAIU7MZ7.webp
I think you guys should give this drawing a second look see. The vaporization of gas fumes in addition to brown gas with a moisture filter might actually work. I am having a methane generation tank installed at my farm as we speak. The installer tells me we should be able to run a generator off the methane gas to supply our electric needs for the stables with it. The conversion is fairly straight forward and easy. So if you can run an engine that is designed for gasoline operation on a gas, and I'm told it actually runs better, cleaner, and prolongs the engines life. Then the use of gasoline vapors is a very viable possibility. Add that to the brown gas model along with a moisture filter and you could prolly get down the road pretty well I should think.


After careful study of this drawing it does need some improvement. The air intake tube into the gas tank would need a plate with holes attached to the bottom and covering the whole bottom of the tank. This would be needed to evenly disperse the air bubbles.
 

Im just wondering if the gas company's know we're on the brink of getting away from fossil fuels (HHO) and thats why gas prices are so high (getting all they can while they can)
 

Ray S ECenFL said:
http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/...vanced&OVADID=26376932522&OVKWID=117525364022

http://www.water-4-fuel.com/

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/hydrogen_engine.html


http://members.tripod.com/~anon99/water_engine/index2.html


I have another link, but it contains some rather crude language. If you want to see it PM me and I will send it to you.

Ray S.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting these links, Ray. I'd stumbled across the Water-4-Gas website and wanted to check out other info too. I gotta say, I do like the look of the Water-4-Gas one (even though it's more expensive than the 1st website) because it'll give you the plans, as well as how to "tweak" it to get the max benefit.

The part I like most is that this is NOT a "travelling bomb" because you use the hydrogen up as fast as you make it - and the thing doesn't make it if the car isn't running. Truly, "on demand" only.

It sure is tempting!

Nan
 

rmptr said:
Can you get us a circuit diagram and callout sheet for the Pulse Width Modulator?

Thanks,
rmptr
Click to expand...

At work right now, but how about this one: http://ece-www.colorado.edu/~ecen4618/lab2.pdf

At least it gives a bit of information about the simplicity of design.

An RC circuit uses a capacitor and resistor (and usually a transistor for switching) to create pulsed DC current. The frequency is the number of pulses per second. That can be adjusted by using a potentiometer (variable resistor) to adjust the length of the pulses by regulating how long the capacitor takes to charge up.

I built a simple one once, with an antenna attached, and could wipe out every television signal in about 100 yards. Lived in the country and our nearest neighbor was about 1/4 mile away so it didn't interfere with anyone's signal but mine. It was an experiment which was accidentally turned on while in traffic one day, and I noticed that - if you accidentally adjusted the variable resistor - it could turn off the rap music radio station in the car next to me and create the most god-awful static you ever heard at 400 watts. ::)
 

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