CARTRIDGE

EARTHWORKS · May 5, 2014

Hey Guys; could you please date this cartridge, found at a cavalry battle in Virginia.
thanks again,
Earthworks...

mical66 · May 5, 2014

hey earthworks , could you put a coin or ruler beside it so people can get a idea of the size ? i think it would help allot . i know there are some people on here that an help and the more they have to work with the faster they can ID it ...
Keep digging

Longknife · May 5, 2014

That is a Pinfire cartridge. They were popular in the interim period between muzzleloading loading & fixed cartridge ammunition.

Pinfires came on the scene in the late 1830's if memory serves & were obsolescent by the late 1860's with advent of rimfire cartridges.

Given the location where the ammo was found you likely have dropped ammunition from a Confederate Calvary officer (Infantry had little use for the delicate Pinfires & only a person of some standing could afford such a modern pistol).

EARTHWORKS · May 5, 2014

Thank you!

AaronN322 · May 6, 2014

This actually is not a pinfire.

It looks like it is some rimfire cartridge, but I am not sure why it has the hole in the side.

parsonwalker · May 7, 2014

AaronN322 said:
This actually is not a pinfire.

It looks like it is some rimfire cartridge, but I am not sure why it has the hole in the side.

I'm no ammo expert, but that does not look like any pinfire I've ever seen. Interesting though . . .

Tedyoh · May 7, 2014

I'm 99.9% sure it's a pinefire......Google pinefire cartridges. ...

AaronN322 · May 7, 2014

I'm 99.99% sure it's not. (I never go to 100%... For that off chance it is some super-rare prototype Winchester made from a rimfire cartridge or something) and when you google pinfire cartridges I'm 99% sure my website will be in the top 2 spots, and the other is the Wikipedia page which has my giant image, and a lot of info from me.

Tedyoh · May 7, 2014

Ok....I must be hallucinating. ....someone shoot me with that rim fire that has a hole on the side where the pin broke off

AaronN322 · May 7, 2014

Show me a pinfire revolver cartridge anywhere with a rim.

mirage83 · May 7, 2014

I can't locate any pictures, including cutaway's, which show the ball-type affair shown at the base of the OP's pictures where the pin would be in a pin-fire. So while I can't for certain say what it is, I'm inclined to say that it's not like any pin-fire cartridge I've encountered or can find online. I'd keep looking for another answer.

mirage83 · May 7, 2014

AaronN322 said:
Show me a pinfire revolver cartridge anywhere with a rim.

Not an expert on these things, but I can't find one online right off hand. Here's a couple different calibers, none are rimmed, none have the ball feature in the OP's pics.

AaronN322 · May 7, 2014

Yeah, That's was my point to tedyoh. You will not find a rimmed pinfire pistol cartridge.

Tedyoh · May 7, 2014

AaronN322 said:
Show me a pinfire revolver cartridge anywhere with a rim.

Good point. ....shoot me anyway for not noticing. ....maybe an experiment that didn't work....looks like the lead may have deteriorated. ...

Davers · May 7, 2014

Tho I don't think it's a pin-fire Cartridge .
It's Def, a mystery to me.

Longknife · May 7, 2014

Dang you guys have great eyes! I glanced at it & immediately thought pinfire.

Aaron is right, it is no pinfire with that rim.

I also don't think it is a rimfire. On rimfire ammunition the rim contains the priming compound (lead styphnate). This rim looks solid judging by its thickness.

I fancy myself something of a firearms/ammunition expert but this one has me stymied.

Alan Applegate · May 7, 2014

Well, I grew up in a sporting goods store, and I agree—it is pin fire, albeit after firing and a bit of corrosion.

As for the rim.... All cartridges made before about 1870± had rims. The idea of head space wasn't well know at the time. And, then current manufacturing standards weren't like they are today either. What's more, real rim fire cartridges came AFTER pin fire ones.

AaronN322 · May 7, 2014

Alan Applegate said:
All cartridges made before about 1870± had rims.

What an ignorant statement.

Here are my pinfires excavated from ACW battlefields. Notice NONE have rims except the shotshell bases.

Some of my 15mm and 5mm pinfire cartridges. Half made before 1870s:

A few hundred different 7mm pinfire cartridges. Half made before 1870s:

and boxes and boxes of 9mm and 12mm pinfires:

Know what these ALL have in common? No rim.

While we are at it, some more ACW cartridges with no rim:

and many more...

mirage83 · May 7, 2014

Alan Applegate said:
Well, I grew up in a sporting goods store, and I agree—it is pin fire, albeit after firing and a bit of corrosion.

Beg to differ, but there is no evidence on that casing that it was a pin-fire cartridge. Where the pin would protrude there is a round object of some sort (not powder, and not the remains of a brass pin), not something found in any pin-fire design that I've ever encountered or read of. Do you happen to have any photo's of a pin-fire cartridge which shares the design of the one in the OP? I'm curious as to what kind of cartridge it is, but pretty confident based on all available evidence that it's not a pin-fire.

mirage83 · May 7, 2014

Longknife said:
Dang you guys have great eyes! I glanced at it & immediately thought pinfire.

Aaron is right, it is no pinfire with that rim.

I also don't think it is a rimfire. On rimfire ammunition the rim contains the priming compound (lead styphnate). This rim looks solid judging by its thickness.

I fancy myself something of a firearms/ammunition expert but this one has me stymied.

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the dark too, as every time I take another look at the photos they raise more questions than answers. It may be fairly well established what it isn't, but what it is I really don't know yet.