Chinese Cash coin

[Moe (fl)]

Found this Chinese cash coin at beach a couple of days ago.

I think it is from Chienglung tung Pao (1736-1795). Can someone confirm?

Thanks.
Moe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

That looks very similar to the only cash coin that I found. Coincidence? What beach did you find this at Moe? Interesting.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sorry I didnt get back to you Moe. I got your PM.

I have never been to your beach.
I thought they may be related but I guess not.

There may have been many of these cash coins carried onboard Spanish shipwrecks in the 18th century because the flotillas did visit the orient.

The Manilla Galleons http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/kids/manilagalleons.htm
For 250 years, from 1565 until 1815, Spanish galleons laden with the riches of the Orient--silks, porcelain, and spices--sailed annually from Manila in the Philippines bound for Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico.

 

[Montana Jim]

Can someone confirm?

Moe - Confirmed! Your coin is: Ch'ien Lung Tung Pao - 1736-1795

Dynasty: Ch'ing (1644 - 1911 a.d.)
Emperor: Kao Tsung (1736-1795 a.d.)
Reign Title: Ch'ien Lung (1736-1795 a.d.)

Big Cy's is the rarer version of the same coin... There is a variety of Ch'ien Lung coin known as the "Shan Lung" commemorative issue. It can be identified by the slightly different style bottom character.

Both coins are described and shown here: http://www.sportstune.com/chinese/coins/chienlung.html

 

[Moe (fl)]

Thanks Montana Jim and BigCypressHunter!

My coin is 22mm in diameter.

HH.
Moe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I believe the mints may be Peking.

 

[Montana Jim]

I believe the mints may be Peking.

I agree...

From the same site: Boo-Ciowan
(Peking)
Board of Revenue

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I believe the mints may be Peking.

I agree...

From the same site: Boo-Ciowan
(Peking)
Board of Revenue

But mine seems to have a slight difference on the mint mark (circled), ...or am i nitpicking?

 

[Montana Jim]

I believe the mints may be Peking.

I agree...

From the same site: Boo-Ciowan
(Peking)
Board of Revenue

But mine seems to have a slight difference on the mint mark (circled), ...or am i nitpicking?

Hmmm... Maybe not... check the:

Boo-Cuwan
Chengtu
Szechuan

Mintmark, it tells us to not confuse these. So maybe?

 

[tinpan]

Sorry I didnt get back to you Moe. I got your PM.

I have never been to your beach.
I thought they may be related but I guess not.

There may have been many of these cash coins carried onboard Spanish shipwrecks in the 18th century because the flotillas did visit the orient.

The Manilla Galleons http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/kids/manilagalleons.htm
For 250 years, from 1565 until 1815, Spanish galleons laden with the riches of the Orient--silks, porcelain, and spices--sailed annually from Manila in the Philippines bound for Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico.

hi Did the Spanish use Chiness cash coins as legal tender in Mexico ?? Did Spanish have imperial chiness altars or joss houses on their ships ? Did the Spanish own the Dutch East India company and control trade in Asia-Pacific region.Did the Spanish control the opium trade?
tinpan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sorry I didnt get back to you Moe. I got your PM.

I have never been to your beach.
I thought they may be related but I guess not.

There may have been many of these cash coins carried onboard Spanish shipwrecks in the 18th century because the flotillas did visit the orient.

The Manilla Galleons http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/kids/manilagalleons.htm
For 250 years, from 1565 until 1815, Spanish galleons laden with the riches of the Orient--silks, porcelain, and spices--sailed annually from Manila in the Philippines bound for Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico.

hi Did the Spanish use Chiness cash coins as legal tender in Mexico ?? Did Spanish have imperial chiness altars or joss houses on their ships ? Did the Spanish own the Dutch East India company and control trade in Asia-Pacific region.Did the Spanish control the opium trade?
tinpan

Are you asking questions that you already know the answers? These coins were found on the Florida East Coast; I thought off the old Spanish shipping lanes (that came from the orient), where Spanish shipwreck artifacts are often found after storms. That is why I originally thought Spanish origin.

 

[tinpan]

Sorry I didnt get back to you Moe. I got your PM.

I have never been to your beach.
I thought they may be related but I guess not.

There may have been many of these cash coins carried onboard Spanish shipwrecks in the 18th century because the flotillas did visit the orient.

The Manilla Galleons http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/kids/manilagalleons.htm
For 250 years, from 1565 until 1815, Spanish galleons laden with the riches of the Orient--silks, porcelain, and spices--sailed annually from Manila in the Philippines bound for Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico.

hi Did the Spanish use Chiness cash coins as legal tender in Mexico ?? Did Spanish have imperial chiness altars or joss houses on their ships ? Did the Spanish own the Dutch East India company and control trade in Asia-Pacific region.Did the Spanish control the opium trade?
tinpan

Are you asking questions that you already know the answers? These coins were found on the Florida East Coast; I thought off the old Spanish shipping lanes (that came from the orient), where Spanish shipwreck artifacts are often found after storms. That is why I originally thought Spanish origin.

The spanish trade thats a joke in its self.The spanish were looters, murders and justified their bad acts because self proclaimed divine right . The spanish main objective in the Americas was gold not trade and settlement.Spanish trading between its 2 Pacific colonies is one thing.Both Mexico or the Philippines never used chiness cash coins and spanish ships where the third party in the trade deals between Philippino and Imperial Chiness.Spanish silver on the other hand was used by all which included the dutch, english and early USA as a legal tender.So what use does chiness cash coins have to any traders of the time?

I believe that a lot of cash coins found are from a later time.

By 1830 northern whale stocks where depeated and more than half of the worlds whale hunting ships moved south into the Pacific.To off set the cost of the trip the whale ships took on cargo and passengers.More than half the ships trading and hunting whale in the asia- pacific region where America at this time.With Western ways affecting the tradition believes of imperal China. The Chiness began to question and felt a sudden freedom.With great gold rushs of America and Australia in 1849-1860. Many Chiness did infact travel to other countries to gain their own wealth. they also took their culture and customs with them. The imperal chiness always honoured the dead ansestors by making shrines and alters and joss house temples and often place much older coins and relics in places as an offering.

Like other gold miners some stayed and settled and most moved on to the next gold rush in another part of the country.
the town i live in had 17,000 chiness in the first gold rush and some 7000, settled building ,market gardens, temple joss, house, and others mined gold for a 100 years.Chinese cash coins are found here sometimes in large numbers and i quite a few myself.Nearly all the chiness that settled here are buried in the local chiness grave yard and few ever went back to China .That clearly shows that they brought chiness cash coins here for other purposes rather than a legal tender.The oldest chiness coin i found a few years ago near a joss house dates from 1649.Yet the first chiness only came here in 1854. Here is located the only known imperal chiness brick kilm outside China and the old chiness imperial dragon.The local chiness museum has a collection of relics brought here in the gold rush days that are more than 700 years old.

tinpan Imperal Dragons have 5 claws

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sorry I didnt get back to you Moe. I got your PM.

I have never been to your beach.
I thought they may be related but I guess not.

There may have been many of these cash coins carried onboard Spanish shipwrecks in the 18th century because the flotillas did visit the orient.

The Manilla Galleons http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/kids/manilagalleons.htm
For 250 years, from 1565 until 1815, Spanish galleons laden with the riches of the Orient--silks, porcelain, and spices--sailed annually from Manila in the Philippines bound for Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico.

hi Did the Spanish use Chiness cash coins as legal tender in Mexico ?? Did Spanish have imperial chiness altars or joss houses on their ships ? Did the Spanish own the Dutch East India company and control trade in Asia-Pacific region.Did the Spanish control the opium trade?
tinpan

Are you asking questions that you already know the answers? These coins were found on the Florida East Coast; I thought off the old Spanish shipping lanes (that came from the orient), where Spanish shipwreck artifacts are often found after storms. That is why I originally thought Spanish origin.

The spanish trade thats a joke in its self.The spanish were looters, murders and justified their bad acts because self proclaimed divine right . The spanish main objective in the Americas was gold not trade and settlement.Spanish trading between its 2 Pacific colonies is one thing.Both Mexico or the Philippines never used chiness cash coins and spanish ships where the third party in the trade deals between Philippino and Imperial Chiness.Spanish silver on the other hand was used by all which included the dutch, english and early USA as a legal tender.So what use does chiness cash coins have to any traders of the time?

I believe that a lot of cash coins found are from a later time.

By 1830 northern whale stocks where depeated and more than half of the worlds whale hunting ships moved south into the Pacific.To off set the cost of the trip the whale ships took on cargo and passengers.More than half the ships trading and hunting whale in the asia- pacific region where America at this time.With Western ways affecting the tradition believes of imperal China. The Chiness began to question and felt a sudden freedom.With great gold rushs of America and Australia in 1849-1860. Many Chiness did infact travel to other countries to gain their own wealth. they also took their culture and customs with them. The imperal chiness always honoured the dead ansestors by making shrines and alters and joss house temples and often place much older coins and relics in places as an offering.

Like other gold miners some stayed and settled and most moved on to the next gold rush in another part of the country.
the town i live in had 17,000 chiness in the first gold rush and some 7000, settled building ,market gardens, temple joss, house, and others mined gold for a 100 years.Chinese cash coins are found here sometimes in large numbers and i quite a few myself.Nearly all the chiness that settled here are buried in the local chiness grave yard and few ever went back to China .That clearly shows that they brought chiness cash coins here for other purposes rather than a legal tender.The oldest chiness coin i found a few years ago near a joss house dates from 1649.Yet the first chiness only came here in 1854. Here is located the only known imperal chiness brick kilm outside China and the old chiness imperial dragon.The local chiness museum has a collection of relics brought here in the gold rush days that are more than 700 years old.

tinpan Imperal Dragons have 5 claws

Hello Tinpan.

These coins were found on the Floridas Coast, not California.

They are not related to each other, I already stated that. Merely a coincidence.

I dont know how Moes 18th century cash coin got on a Florida Beach. I merely stated that the shipping lanes went up the coast. I thought it might be possible that a Spaniard who visited the Orient could have picked it up. I heard of someone else that found Chinese cash coins near the main 1715 Fleet disaster survival camp in the 80s. They did not come from Chinese settlements. We didnt have any. Florida has no gold or whaling that I know of.

I agree the Spaniards were looters. But I dont know much about the Orient. Tinpan, are you saying that Chinese cash coins would never be on a Spanish ship that visited the Orient?

If these cash coins are not from shipwrecks then they are possibly dropped by modern tourists.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did find something about whaling in fLORIDA, but I dont think they carried Chinese passengers.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...lorida+whaling+1800s&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

In 1876, a whaling vessel from New Bedford, Massachusetts, arrived in Brunswick, Georgia, to unload cargo of whale oil and baleen. While in the area, the schooner captured a whale off the coast, prompting other whalers to use Brunswick as their winter base of operation. Within six years, 25 to 30 whales were recorded to have been killed off the coasts of Georgia and northern Florida

 

[Montana Jim]

The Chinese were helping build railroads in Florida in the late 1800s.

None of this has bearing on why a coin was found there.... but it's been good reading!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Chinese were helping build railroads in Florida in the late 1800s.

None of this has bearing on why a coin was found there.... but it's been good reading!

OK thanks. I didnt know. link?

 

[tinpan]

The Chinese were helping build railroads in Florida in the late 1800s.

None of this has bearing on why a coin was found there.... but it's been good reading!

so right you are Jim.

When i was 16 i asked a question about a stained glass window in an old church.The window of the church was boarded up for as long as i can remember.Then one day there was a public notice on the church declaring the building was to be removed as the sand stone foundation had become totally unsafe.After reading the notice i looked threw a small gap in the board and saw a stained glass window.At the same time a unknown male person turned up and asked what was i looking at. So i showed him. I never though about this until the local newspaper article a week later. Tiffany stained glass window found in time and yes i found it and the other person took glory and the window now sits in the vault of an art gallery as they cannot get insurance on it even for public display.

What is it ? only part of the bigger picture when why and how matter just as much.My intent is not to question the finders creditablitiy. Just need to learn more and that i have.

I have been watching these chiness cash coin posts on TN for quite a while and read some every interesting statements about them and this the only time i have made a remark.I best leave this section of NT to the id experts. As a few think the quickest to id is all that matters.

tinpan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Chinese were helping build railroads in Florida in the late 1800s.

None of this has bearing on why a coin was found there.... but it's been good reading!

so right you are Jim.

When i was 16 i asked a question about a stained glass window in an old church.The window of the church was boarded up for as long as i can remember.Then one day there was a public notice on the church declaring the building was to be removed as the sand stone foundation had become totally unsafe.After reading the notice i looked threw a small gap in the board and saw a stained glass window.At the same time a unknown male person turned up and asked what was i looking at. So i showed him. I never though about this until the local newspaper article a week later. Tiffany stained glass window found in time and yes i found it and the other person took glory and the window now sits in the vault of an art gallery as they cannot get insurance on it even for public display.

What is it ? only part of the bigger picture when why and how matter just as much.My intent is not to question the finders creditablitiy. Just need to learn more and that i have.

I have been watching these chiness cash coin posts on TN for quite a while and read some every interesting statements about them and this the only time i have made a remark.I best leave this section of NT to the id experts. As a few think the quickest to id is all that matters. tinpan

Not at all Tinpan. I dont know who you are referring to or why. I NEVER claimed to be an expert on cash coins, although I am recently learning about them. I merely made a suggestion that it may have come from a shipwreck because it was found on a Florida beach after a storm and I found one just like it, and so have others.

Please do not take an attitude.

I am merely asking you if it is possible that a Spaniard could be carrying Chinese Cash coins from a visit to the Orient. If you say no, then I have learned from you. And that is not bad. 8) 8) 8)

Maybe it came from a late 19th century Chinese Florida Railroad worker. I dont really know. I repeat that I was only making a suggestion. (reply #2) It could use more research. 8)

Thanks for your input.

 

[ivan salis]

chinese often carried with them special old coins as "good luck" pieces -- certain old coins are thought to be so lucky that they even now still make modern knock offs of the old coins and use them in wind chimes-- there was indeed chinese labor folks used to build the rail ways here in florida -- the first rail line in florida was laid by david yulee -- it ran from fernandina to cedar key and allowed transhipment of goods from florida east coast to the gulf of mexico without going around the state of florida and the dangerous keys --- sadly yulees timimg was bad however he finished it just as the civil war broke out in 1861 ---spanish carried the low value coins as trade trinkets for the few times they traded with indains

 

[tinpan]

The Chinese were helping build railroads in Florida in the late 1800s.

None of this has bearing on why a coin was found there.... but it's been good reading!

so right you are Jim.

When i was 16 i asked a question about a stained glass window in an old church.The window of the church was boarded up for as long as i can remember.Then one day there was a public notice on the church declaring the building was to be removed as the sand stone foundation had become totally unsafe.After reading the notice i looked threw a small gap in the board and saw a stained glass window.At the same time a unknown male person turned up and asked what was i looking at. So i showed him. I never though about this until the local newspaper article a week later. Tiffany stained glass window found in time and yes i found it and the other person took glory and the window now sits in the vault of an art gallery as they cannot get insurance on it even for public display.

What is it ? only part of the bigger picture when why and how matter just as much.My intent is not to question the finders creditablitiy. Just need to learn more and that i have.

I have been watching these chiness cash coin posts on TN for quite a while and read some every interesting statements about them and this the only time i have made a remark.I best leave this section of NT to the id experts. As a few think the quickest to id is all that matters. tinpan

Not at all Tinpan. I dont know who you are referring to or why. I NEVER claimed to be an expert on cash coins, although I am recently learning about them. I merely made a suggestion that it may have come from a shipwreck because it was found on a Florida beach after a storm and I found one just like it, and so have others.

Please do not take an attitude.

I am merely asking you if it is possible that a Spaniard could be carrying Chinese Cash coins from a visit to the Orient. If you say no, then I have learned from you. And that is not bad. 8) 8) 8)

Maybe it came from a late 19th century Chinese Florida Railroad worker. I dont really know. I repeat that I was only making a suggestion. (reply #2) It could use more research. 8)

Thanks for your input.

Big C I was not having a go at anyone, merely pointing out to Jim that the more input rather than just the ID would lead someone to find real treasure.Sorry i did say in rather dry way.Anyway chiness cash coin could to lead to other imperial relics.pottery with imperial markings or a simple green ginger pottery jar would be grand prize to find and i think would worth quite a bit if you wanted sell.

I did look at chiness silver rice spoon 1840,s found by others. it was huge and weighted about half a pound and craftmenship was awsome I was jealous too. lol

tinpan