CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I just noticed you posted as I was typing. Is it older than 1880's?

View attachment 634053

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know about anyone else but Im not searching if you already found it.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I just noticed you posted as I was typing. Is it older than 1880's?

Yes!

Since the ad I'm referring to is an illustration and not an actual photograph, I've decided to keep the contest open. The winner will now be the first person who post a true photograph of a player wearing a two-colored jockey-type baseball cap like the one in my photograph. I will also allow baseball cards to qualify providing the picture is of someone real. Of course, it still goes for doubling the prize with a confirmed date.

I will be back shortly to post what I found.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Points to ponder ...

1. The player in my photo is obviously wearing a two-colored cap.
2. The 1888 Spalding ad I posted earlier confirms two-colored caps.
3. Spalding may or may not have been the first company to sell two-colored caps.

Spalding History-Founded 1876 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_(sports_equipment)

Here's the link where I found the catalog pictured below. Baseball History: 19th Century Baseball This website is hands-down the best I have seen regarding every aspect of baseball history, including a comprehensive history of baseball uniforms.

There may be some among us who might think the two-colored aspect of the cap pictured below is simply the result of an artist conception and/or just shadows. However, since it is a sports catalog, I believe it depicts the real deal. I also do not believe the two tones to be shadows. I can't image shadows being on "both" sides of the cap. In any event, this is the best I could come up with. Please continue your searches for a real cap so I can send the winner his or her prize.

Thanks.

Bob


De Witt's ~ 1877

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Is it possible that my framed albumen photograph is actually from the 1880s or 1890s?

Man, wouldn't that be cool

SBB

 

[Franklin]

My best guess is that is a picture of Earl Caldwell playing in Texas on May 5, 1925. He did not make the major leagues until 1928. Over to the left of the photograph is the date May 5, 1925 and Ed. SW News and above that is No. 28178 * This may be completely wrong but on the back is pencil tracings is "CALDWELL" to the left is XxK with the middle "X" higher most likely meaning 11 strikeouts. I hope this helps. Albert

The date is definitely 1925

There is a pencil tracing on the back to the left of CALDWELL which indicates a date of 5-8-1883 which could indicate the photograph was made in 1883 and re-edited May 5, 1925.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Franklin ~

Example / Quote ... "Over to the left of the photograph is the date May 5, 1925"

What photograph are you talking about?

Thanks.

Bob

 

[zendog64]

I'm not convinced Earl Caldwell is the right guy. Caldwell was a righty, but he threw in a very distinctive sidearm style, unlike the player in the photo: "A right-handed pitcher with a side-arm, almost underhanded delivery, Earl Caldwell, born on April 9, 1907 in Sparks, Texas, spent most of his lengthy professional baseball career in the minor leagues, winning 323 games, beginning with Temple/Mexia of the Texas Association in 1926" (Earl Caldwell | SABR)

If the picture's from 1925, it would be a year before Caldwell played his first minor league game.

"In 1926, after finishing two years at Thorp Spring College, he took a teaching/principal position in Rogers, Texas. To be eligible for the position, he had to be 21 years of age; he told them that he was born in 1905 which explains why he is sometimes listed as older than he actually was"

If the picture is from May 5, 1925, Earl Caldwell would have been playing ball for Thorp Spring. With a little research, you might be able to find out if Thorp Spring's baseball team had similar uniforms.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Update ...

I sent a detailed inquiry with pictures to the website where I found the De Witt's catalog. If anybody can date my photo I'm hoping they can. Who knows, they might even know who the player is. I will let you know when I hear back from them.

In the meantime, if the website does accurately date it, I'd like to take a poll and see what date you think they will come back with.


My guess is ... 1892

Additionally ...

In the event that no one post a real-life photograph or baseball card showing the two-colored cap, then I will consider the winner the individual who guesses the exact same date that the website comes up with. If they say they don't know, then that's that and I may have to close this thread as unsolveable.

So please share your guesses with us, irregardless of whether you think the photo is 1875 or 1945. Whoever nails it wins the prize. And please know this is all in fun and intended merely to boost member interest and participation.

Good luck and thanks a lot.

Sodabottlebob


PS ~


Un, ah, how do I say this ... I found a real-life photo of a player wearing a two-colored cap which is dated 18??

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

View attachment 634075 My best guess is that is a picture of Earl Caldwell playing in Texas on May 5, 1925. He did not make the major leagues until 1928. Over to the left of the photograph is the date May 5, 1925 and Ed. SW News and above that is No. 28178 * This may be completely wrong but on the back is pencil tracings is "CALDWELL" to the left is XxK with the middle "X" higher most likely meaning 11 strikeouts. I hope this helps. Albert

The date is definitely 1925

There is a pencil tracing on the back to the left of CALDWELL which indicates a date of 5-8-1883 which could indicate the photograph was made in 1883 and re-edited May 5, 1925.

LOL Are you a dowser? ESP?

 

[zendog64]

If there's one group that specializes in this stuff, it would be the Society for American Baseball Research. They specialize in the "dead ball era" and they're a very large society so I'm sure they'd love to help solve this mystery- Research Committees | SABR

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I think it may be time to wrap things up here and place it in the hands of experts. If the webiste I contacted doesn't know, I'll find one that does. I think we've given it our best shots, which I truly appreciate, but its starting to look as if we could keep guessing until doomsday and still not get it right. Plus, I'd really like someone to win the prize I keep talking about. So in order to accomplish that, I have decided to post a cropped image of the real-life photo I found. And to help you find the whole image, it is dated 1870. The first person who finds this picture wins the prize.

Clue No.1 ... This picture should be "easy" to find.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zendog64 ~

Thanks a lot. I will shoot them an inquiry soon.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I would say your research coincides with mine and you are making progress.. Its a 1870-1890 Spalding baseball cap designed from a Jockey hat that was also worn by Horse Jockeys in the same time period. It was not very popular with baseball teams according to the Spalding link. I cannot find any examples of this cap in the 1890's.

I would agree with you the cap is 1870s-1880's (maybe older) but you need to find more info such as what baseball team wore this cap in an attempt to ID the player. Lets just hope its not an oldtimers game but either way its cool besides he doesnt look that old.. I think we can safely rule out Earl Caldwell and Ty Cobb.

Popular or not, you have proof it was used in organized baseball. Im curious what team is depicted in your 1870 card. I say "organized" because a backyard game wouldnt have uniforms.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Clue No.2 ... You will not have to leave this thread to find the photo.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Clue No.2 ... You will not have to leave this thread to find the photo.

Big Clue but I was searching for something else.

The good thing about TN Bob is the thread stays here and you never know who will see it. Do you remember the old racing photographs I posted and years later the racetrack was identified? I even spoke with Ralph Pyle himself, a great guy. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/16428-old-racing-pictures-found-trash-racetrac-ided.html So its certainly possible to ID your baseball field but the only problem any witnesses to the event have probably passed on.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Clue No.2 ... You will not have to leave this thread to find the photo.

It must be in one of your links but that could be a lot to search..

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Clue No.3 ...

If we were playing the game "Hot-Cold," Big Cy would be "on fire" with his last comment.

 

[Franklin]

LOL Are you a dowser? ESP?

No I can actually see what I posted. By the Ed. most likely means edited for the newspaper. They could have edited an older photograph of 5-8-1883 or this date could be the date the player was born or the date of the picture when it was taken. Above the name CALDWELL on the back is the word "Vanquest" I don't know what that means?

Can you not see the writing on the picture I posted. The print is from bottom to top around the left side of the baseball player.

 

[Franklin]

On the very top of the mill doesn't it say, "SBA" most likely Southern Baseball Association. Beneath that is "Montgomery, Texas" I believe the photo was taken at Mitchell Baseball Field Aurora, Nebraska. Look at the photo of the field. Also at the very bottom of the mill is something like "financial" below this is the date 1888 and below that is the number of the mill-----No. 6