CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I don't wish to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but after doing some extensive research on photography, I am about 95% certain that my photograph is an "Albumen" print. Which, if I'm correct, means it is very likely to be late 1800s or very early 1900s. I'm not entirely sure how to prove this, but based on everything I have learned and by comparing it to old family photos that I'm sure of regarding the dates, I have every reason to believe it is a genuine albumen photograph. The following link is one of the best I have seen on how to properly identify the age of various photographs, and is about the only way I know of to make my point. Open the link and then click on 7) Albumen. The six most distinctive features that indicate my photo is an albumen are ...

1. Super thin paper. And I mean "Super thin."
2. Sepia toned (Brownish).
3. I can "see" traces of paper fibers with a magnifying glass.
4. Textured, fiberous paper. Not smooth or glossy in any manner.
5. Slightly hand colored. Look real close and you will see a hint of green in the grass.
6. Slightly pinkish.

Check out number 7) on the link and you will have a better understanding of what I'm trying to say.

Link: How to Date, Identify and Authenticate Photographs / Authenticating Photographs (Cycleback.com)

So what does this mean if I'm correct? It means my photograph and the player pictured are very, very likely ...

Pre 1910

I may need to have it examined by a photo expert eventually, but in the meantime I'm going to restructure my searches back to ...

Circa 1900

I'll be back.

SBB

 

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[zendog64]

Being the inquisitive sort, this whole thing has me quite interested. In an earlier post I believe you said you could make out CH--- on the building. I've looked up the names of every town and city in the Midwest, and Chokio is the only town in a Midwest state with 5 letters with a grain elevator (of course, it could also be a county or township name).

Another reason I'm leaning toward Chokio is because it is on the western side of MN, which was home to the Red River Valley League, which had minor league teams in nearby Fergus Falls, Moorhead, and Brekenridge in the late 1890s. Since most of these teams consisted of "local boys", that might explain why the picture was taken. I've been able to find the 1897 rosters of 2 of the 3 teams so far. Since 1897 was the league's only season, it would fit the time frame of the photo.

It seems that the lettering on the grain elevator is the key to cracking this case.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

It seems that the lettering on the grain elevator is the key to cracking this case.

I agree 100%! So I either need a stronger magnifying glass or a "microscope." There are definitely words on the building. And after zoom in on it a jillion times, I still believe the first two letters are Ch Chokio? Could be!

Thanks again.

Bob

 

[tennessee digger]

I'm afraid that I can't add much to the photo but I do want to commend you for your excellent research! I'm impressed. You are relentless!!!! Tennessee digger

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zendog64 ~

How'z about posting the roster you mentioned or a link to it for us to check out? The dates sound about right and it might lead to another clue or two. And thanks for helping to solve this. I know first hand the time it requires to hunt something down and then try to make sense of it. Much appreciated.


tennessee digger ~

Thanks for the kudos. I'll try not to disappoint your confidence in me. And actually, you can help. Since everyone knows as much about the photo now as I do, and can examine and judge it for themselves, how'z about sharing your opinion as to what you think the age of the player is?

16 or 36? Or somewhere in between? I won't say what I think and will let you be the first to respond.

Gracias'

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

The first person who can find and post a genuine oldtime photo of a baseball player wearing the exact same two colored cap wins a prize. And if you can prove the date of the photo you find, your prize will be doubled. (Prize(s) to be determined).

Thanks.

Bob




1888 Spalding Ad. No. 11 or 19.



I've seen references that refer to the flat one's as ... Pill Box ~ Painter's ~ Railroad Type. To me they look like "Chain Gang" or "Prison Inmate" hats. (Lol)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Nobody would frame a picture of a baseball player unless they were famous or a family member. Have you identified the players position by the location of the cameraman? This seems to be a picture taken during practice or during an actual game. The arm is in motion causing a blur. It would seem a family member would pose for a better picture unless the cameraman was trying to capture the moment. But you will probably need to identify the ballpark first before identifying the player. Its too bad there are no markings.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is this the only pic you found with this cap? Thats good news in a way.

Have you tried old baseball cards?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Is this the only pic you found with this cap? Thats good news in a way.

Yes. That's one reason why I'm offering a prize. I have looked endlessly for another one like it but have not been able to yet.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thats an odd cap. I did a little search and Im not seeing it. But thats good news it will narrow down the search to find what teams used it and in what years.

That picture shouild have value just for the cap. I havent read everything but its looking like 1800's.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I know this is not it but the odd cap may be of interest. http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotImages/14/16448a_med.jpeg

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I wonder why that card says Athlete on top but Pedestrian on the bottom?

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Pictured is a 1911 Spalding ad. The two-colored cap is not featured. The link it to a website which list a 1889-1890 Spalding catalog that sold for $1,500. It's the same or similar to the 1888 ad I posted.

SBB

Link: Sports Antique of the Week April 26th- May 2nd 2009 - 1889-90 A.G. Spalding Sporting Goods Catalog

1911 Spalding Ad.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I wonder why that card says Athlete on top but Pedestrian on the bottom?

SBB

I dont know but if a 2 toned hat was used for the Negro Leagues, it might explain why it wasnt so popular.

I find this type but not the same. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gQe4uJIYv...Cabanas+Cuban+Baseball+Card+Carlos+Royerx.JPG

Congrats you found what looks like an 1880-1890's photo with a not often used cap.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im not finding it in the 1890's. Its looking like 1888-89. Baggers Sportscards - Vintage Baseball cards, Football Cards, Hockey Cards, Basketball Cards

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

You get an "E" for effort but no cigar just yet. But its definitely a good clue. That card is hilarious. I never heard of Baby McKee.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Just a little more food for thought ...

[h=2]Collars[/h]

• Teams around the turn of the 20th century typically wore fold-down collars on their jerseys. The New York Giants introduced the major leagues to collarless jerseys in 1906. The Giants started another jersey trend in 1908 with their V-neck collars with slight extensions, the style a compromise between the collarless jerseys and the military-style collars that were in fashion. The look was a hit, and most major league jerseys sported these collars in the 1920s. By the 1930s, the simple collarless jersey took over as professional baseball's standard look. With the exception of a brief flirtation with a faux full-collar jersey by the Chicago White Sox in the late 1970s, the last time a full-collared jersey was seen on a major league team was the 1913 Chicago Cubs.
  
  

Read more: History of the Baseball Uniform Jersey | eHow.com History of the Baseball Uniform Jersey | eHow.com

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

That card is hilarious. I never heard of Baby McKee.

Thanks.

Bob

She played in the Midwest Toddler Leagues.

The link says this cap was not popular.
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

The “Jockey Shape Cap” (No. 11), patterned after the caps worn in the horse-racing circuit, featured a long bill and large round crown. Though not particularly popular at the time, it is the cap most similar to the modern-day baseball cap.

The “Skull Cap” (No. 19) was similar to the “Jockey Shape Cap,” except that the bill was much shorter.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Um, ah ... I found an illustrated ad which shows the two-colored cap worn by a player and is dated. But since I can't win my own prize I am a little hesitant to post it just yet. Should I wait and see what develops or just go ahead and post it now?

Clue: The ad is a "lot" older than you might think. But this is not to say it's the exact cap in my photo, but rather that it is very similar and is two-colored.

While I'm waiting to decide what to do, here's an interesting bit of information that refers to those types of caps as having a star pattern. But I'm not sure if they are referring to the stitching or the color. What do you make of it?

When I copied/pasted it I did the bold red myself.

SBB

In 1860 the Brooklyn Excelsiors took the field with the first version of the modern baseball cap. The “Brooklyn-style” cap with a long visor and a button on top became very popular by 1900. However, many other styles were available in the late 1860’s, including the “No.1” which featured a star pattern on the crown. This cap was worn by amateur clubs including the Philadelphia Athletics, New York Gothams and New York Mutuals. In 1888 prices ranged from 12 cents for a cheap muslin cap to $2.00 for the highest-quality flannel. Link: Western Wear, Cowboy Hats and Boots, Apparel - Stetson Official Site

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Remember the Negro League athelete? It appears my hunch may have been correct as to it unpopularity..

This hat was used by Jockeys on the horse racing circuit in the 1880's.

I found an 1890 cigar box artwork featuring black horse racing jockey in typical racing silks. Almost all US jockeys in the 19th century were black Original lawn jockey original cast iron lawn jockey replica
View attachment 634048
Its an old cap allright. 1880's. The question is what white baseball team officially used a cap modeled after a jockey cap?