Civil War Era Bullets and Buttons left me with lots of unanswered questions.. HELP.

[bonepicker]

Got in a pretty good civil war hunt today, but now I need some help on ID.
I really don't get to do a lot of relic hunting, and this is the first time the new DEUS has scored some nice Civil War relics.
Not trying to brag much, but this machine sniffed these out right from under 2 other machines.
All of the bullets were found in the same vicinity, and the buttons were found a little further down in a supposed union camp.
Picked up a few 3-ringers. One that looks like it has been dropped, one fired, and the other fired with a flattened mushroom impact.
I really like the impacted one, at first I thought it might be a button, but was way too heavy. Any ideas what this might have impacted with to make such a domed mushroom shape?
One large musket ball
And one smaller bullet which has some faint rings. My buddy said this might be a burnside rifle round as he has found some in this particular area. Could the brass casing below it, be from a burnside round?
There is also a rivet pictured, can anyone tell me about this.

Also saved two 2 piece buttons and 1 back. Just started soaking them in mineral oil.
Anyone have any idea on these and any suggestions for prerservation.
Im assuming they are Federal General Service, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[corpsman]

great finds! the 2 buttons at the top are without a doubt, general service federal eagle buttons. It's hard to tell by the angle of the pic, but I don't think the bullet on the far left is a burnside. I don't really have a suggestion on that one.

 

[bonepicker]

great finds! the 2 buttons at the top are without a doubt, general service federal eagle buttons. It's hard to tell by the angle of the pic, but I don't think the bullet on the far left is a burnside. I don't really have a suggestion on that one.

Thanks for responding corpsman. That bullet is pretty toasted. It looks like it does have a ring or two around it. Maybe these additional photos will help a bit.
It was found in the same proximity as the others, and has a very nice white patina, like it has been buried for a long time. I don't know much about different caliber CW bullets. It is definitely a lot smaller than the other 3-ringers. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[sutphin]

HEY THERE PICKER NICE BUTTONS AND BULLETS FROM THE CIVIL WAR THEATER .

 

[Patriot Relics]

Nice collection of relics but a word of advice on 2 piece buttons- do not submerge in oil!!! There is a small cardboard ring in the middle that once saturated may corrode the buttons from the inside out. I would utilize the toothpick method once the buttons are dry. If a harsher method is necessary to exposure further detail, apply aluminum jelly with a cue tip, rinse with soap suds, and repeat.

 

[Getty]

Nice recoveries, you did well. Brass item is definitely not Burnside casing. As far as Bullet ID, you should get a Digital Caliper (good for other things than just bullets, like coins, flat buttons etc.) for $15 and up. Anyway Diameter and Height would help to ID. If you have a small gram scale Weight is certainly helpful. Keep hammerin that site, there is much more there for you to uncover.

 

[DirtStalker]

BP looks like you had a good hunt again with that Deus. Keep finding and posting.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

From what I've read only one thing causes a 3 ringer to mushroom like that, flesh. Probably a gut shot, either human or animal.

 

[parsonwalker]

Man, well done! In my book, THESE days, ANY day you find even ONE CW button should go down in the books as a very good day. Get back to that camp!! Love your buttons, and I agree, the only thing safe for a button is the dry toothpick method. Buttons with a lot of gold gilt left on them respond well to 4 or 5 minutes in vinegar, then fresh water GOOD rinse. Stay away from oil. As to your bullet questions: We find (Here in VA) a lot of perfectly mushroomed bullets like that in trenches. I agree with MrMike that flesh could do that, but soft dirt (as the trenches would have been 150 years ago) would mimic flesh and mushroom a bullet very neatly. If your smaller bullet was found very close to the others, I'm clueless. But I have a spot where I hunt. Two hills seperated by a swamp. One hill yields well-preserved bullets in great shape. The other hill, I guess because of some different chemical makeup of the soil, just does a terrible number on lead! All (and I mean ALL) the bullets found on the other hill are just corroded and eaten up. A three-ringer dropped is barely recognizable, much smaller due to the corroded away lead, and about half-weight.

 

[bonepicker]

Thank you for all the suggestions and info guys. Had a blast today. If it weren't so hot, I could have hunted there from daylight to dusk.
Still learning about relics, so thanks for all the advice.
Sutphin - HEY THERE SUTPHIN, THANKS FOR THE COMPS.
Vmiairpower - Thanks for the advice. Was cool to get a variety today. Was really hoping to get that boxplate too, but im not complaining. Removed from oil, lesson learned.
Getty - Thanks for the input. Might have to invest in a caliper. Definitely going back, but had to make a little drive to get there, so its not something I can do as often as id like.
Tylerbdad - Thanks Allen. Full tones. Deus Baby!
MrMikeJackie - Thanks for your suggestion. I was kinda thinking flesh wound. And what the exit hole might have looked like.
Parsonwalker - Thanks Parson. My last and only other cw hunt was just bullets, so it was def. exciting today. Id never seen a mushroomed cw bullet like that.
I like your soil theory. It was a wet area, and the musketball had the similar oxidation. I tried to scratch off the reddish outer coat to reveal the white, and prob. should have left it alone.

 

[Tnmountains]

From what I've read only one thing causes a 3 ringer to mushroom like that, flesh. Probably a gut shot, either human or animal.

Soft ground will cause them to mushroom like that as well. May be to late now for aluminum jelly and a q tip but you might try. Nice relics I like digging lead!

 

[CRUSADER]

Soft ground will cause them to mushroom like that as well. May be to late now for aluminum jelly and a q tip but you might try. Nice relics I like digging lead!

Agreed, I've seen the same type of bullets do that after going over the top of the range & into a bank. So that flesh story, is just that, a story. Probably to sell the bullet for more money!

The rivet is off the leather of a horse harness. They can be Civil War date or 50 years after, no way of telling.

 

[thrifty76now]

I like all civil war stuff when those are displayed.

 

[bonepicker]

cleaned up pics

Thanks for the info and feedback Tnmountains, Crusader, and Thrifty76now.
I let the buttons dry, then did a little toothpicking and aluminum jelly cleaning, then Q-tipped a little mineral oil back on them.
I started out with the small button. The alum. jelly definitely brought out the detail, but it also stripped most of the patina off.
I applied one light alum jelly treatment to the larger button, but didn't want to do any more. I kinda of like the way it looks, and don't want to ruin the patina. This has been a learning experience. Thanks to all who shared.
I think im done. They look better in person, than in the photos.

 

[CRUSADER]

Here is just 2 of many I have found behind an 1860s range, these 2 are clay insert 3 ringers (58 cal).

 

[Metal Detecting Stuff]

Way to go! I'm glad you are enjoying your XP Deus. You did well in a cleaned out camp. Here is an excellent post on cleaning buttons:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/cleaning-preservation/89045-how-clean-buttons.html

Wayne

Metal Detector Sales Rental | Treasure Hunting | Metal Detecting Stuff

 

[flintchip]

Could the smaller minie simply have the bottom ring cut off by a soldier? The item you refer to as a possible cartridge base looks a lot like the metal part of a flashlight bulb and the mushroomed minie was probably shot into the ground either in battle, at a firing range, or as a common practice of coming off of patrol, the soldier would discharge his rifle into the ground, to empty it.

 

[Old Dude]

Old lead and old buttons...2 of my 3 favorites! I would imagine the purity of the lead and the amount of powder used would play a part in impact shaping as much as density of material struck. Very good finds!

 

[bonepicker]

Crusader - Thanks for posting pics of those mushroomed 3-ringers. Guess that's not that unusual. It was my first one like that that I ever found, and have never seen/noticed one quite like that before. I was really amazed by how much that round flattened, and also its dome appearance. My first thoughts were, wow, if this hit someone they surely had a really bad day, and probably didn't make it.
Metaldetectingstuff - Thanks for responding Wayne, and also for including the preservation link. Im lovin this new DEUS, thanks again.
Flintchip - Thanks for responging Flintchip. Could be that a soldier cut off the bottom ring, but they couldn't have cut off much, because the hollow cavity at the bottom is still evident. Its also possible that the mushroomed round was fired into the ground while coming off of a patrol, because it was found near a body of water, which Ive read is a common place to post a sentry.
Olddude - Thanks for responding OD. Was a awesome hunt, esp for someone like me that doesn't get many chances to CW hunt. I used to be a coin guy, but lately I have been really enjoying digging/finding relics. Your lead purity/powder theory is interesting too. I never thought much about lead purity until I read something recently about people saving lead to make bullets. The thread mentioned how pure lead is too soft, and how a lot of bullet lead has alloys to make it harder.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Nice buttons! Toothpicking really only works before getting the button wet.

IF gilding, then aluminum jelly. If not, then toothpick. NO water. And certainly no oil.

Take a look in the cleaning and preservation section and you will find a post by me about cleaning all types of buttons. A version of that post was also published in WE Treasures Magazine years ago.

That casing is not a Burnside. No clue on the small bullet, but it may be postwar.

Congrats on the good CW stuff!

-Buck