Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
That was Ron Feldman who said that, not Clay. Clay does not believe the LDM is on the east side of the Superstitions.
Clay Worst search area
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That was Ron Feldman who said that, not Clay. Clay does not believe the LDM is on the east side of the Superstitions.
Clay is a smart man. Def not on the east side of the Sups.
SteveA Reno
Greenie
I was not correct! Matt below said it was Ron Feldman and I think he is in episodes 10, 11, 12 or 13 I think? Sorry not more precise! It's been a while!
SteveA Reno
Greenie
Thanks for the correct info!! Did not mean to start a false myth!
SteveA Reno
Greenie
PS: does anyone have coordinates to where "the Board House" was?
Thanks!
Thanks!
somehiker
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No problem Steve. It takes a long time, along with tons of research, to really get a handle on everything and everyone who has been involved with these legends. Welcome to the show.
Cubfan64
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Would you be surprised to know that there isn't even a consensus on what the "board house" really means?
Last edited:
somehiker
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For some reason, after I updated my GE, it will not show co-ords or altitude of the cursor.......
But this should help.
somehiker
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Would you be surprised to know that there isn't even a consensus on what the "board house" really means?
So true.....board house or cow barn ?
But I think that the story..... if true..... about Julia and Rhiney being able to leave JW with the woman and two children, while they followed his instructions to the mine or caches from there, does fit the description of the Cavaness place.
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
The version I heard, was it was the first milled lumber residence = board house.
Complete with woman, children, and some cows, or a cow barn.
IDK if this is correct version or not.
Last edited:
PotBelly Jim
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If I remember right (not guaranteed by any means these days) there was also some question about whether or not the Caveness lady and her kids were living in there 1890/91.
Cubfan64
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I think most people consider the current Quarter Circle U ranch to be the location of the "board house. I've heard other people claim it was the "Milk Ranch" location which was a couple miles east or so of the QCU and is no longer existent (although the general location is known/suspected).
SteveAReno - the QCU ranch can be seen in Somehiker's photo. It's not a mystery location at all - although it is private property and the entrance is gated.
SteveAReno - the QCU ranch can be seen in Somehiker's photo. It's not a mystery location at all - although it is private property and the entrance is gated.
Last edited:
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
This is for anyone interested in the firsthand history of the QCU and other ranches in the Superstition, Tonto Basin areas. I wrote this several years ago for an Arizona cattlemans magazine.
The history of ranching and the pioneer ranchers who settled the Superstition Mountain cattle range, the Tonto Basin, Globe, Payson and the southern Mazatzal range has been mostly lost to the ages.
Bits and pieces are found in history books, articles and dime paperbacks but the names and places and the faces for the most part are gone, faded into the ages. Even some of the old ranches themselves are gone forever, buried underwater by the great dams that created Roosevelt, Apache, Canyon and Saguaro Lakes.
In 1992 I was able to copy from the memoirs and papers of Maude B. Clarke. I visited with her at her home in California. Maude was the daughter of Matt Cavaness, the first man to run cattle in the Superstition Mountains. The Matt Cavaness ?River Ranch? at the south end of Superstition Mountain later became the Bark-Criswell Ranch and later on the Tex Barkley ?Quarter Circle U Ranch? on Peralta Road.
Maude Cavaness married Wescott Bailey Clarke a Hollywood actor who in the 1920?s and 1930?s made several very successful films with producer/director Hal Roach. The Clarke?s lived in Los Angeles and later San Diego but Maude never forgot or lost her love for Arizona, the people and the remote ranches she grew up on.
Maude Bertha Cavaness-Clarke who everyone called, ?Bertie?, lived to be 101 years old. She passed away at her central California home in December 1996. Mrs. Clarke collected and carefully kept all the Cavaness family heirlooms and remembrances including things she inherited from her aunt Rebecca Ann Peeples, (Mrs. Abraham H. Peeples). The Cavaness and Peeples were two of Arizona?s oldest pioneer families.
Among the many possessions and papers she kept were remembrances of the ranches her father Matt Cavaness and brother Daniel Cavaness owned and worked. There was no particular order to these records and they were not written as diaries or journals or books, rather as hundreds of lines with the names, ranches and events. The people represented in those written lines are now long since passed and lost to memory except in those short sentences.
When I copied the things that day from Maude?s papers, one thing she asked was to promise that one day I would put all those people?s names down somewhere and preserve them in some way. Maude had known all of the people, knew their families, knew the ranches they lived on and their trials and tribulations and it was important to her that her father?s and her family?s lives not be forgotten.
Jess Ellison, one of Maude?s dearest friends in Arizona told this story of the day he met Maude and lost his ranch but made a friendship that would last his lifetime. The rest of the things written here are simply one or two line remembrances by Maude of what was the Superstition and Tonto ranches in the final days of the 1800?s and early 1900?s.
Jess Ellison writes:
?One day a man with a grey beard drove up to our ranch on the Tonto. With him in the wagon was a woman, a grown man, a 14 year-old boy and three girls. One of the girls was Maudie. The man driving the wagon said, ?I?m Matt Cavaness, this here is my wife and family. We?re from Phoenix. Your neighbor Bill Neal is my brother in law. We like it up here. I got some cash and I?m wondering if you would sell me this place??
My father?s eyes got a real glassy look and he said, ?I?ve been a wanting to.? ?Maybe we can trade.?
My mother came out and asked the women folks to come in the house. The young man strolled out into the orchard. My father and Matt Cavaness talked and the trade was made in 15 minutes without father asking mama what she thought of it. Thirty acres of irrigated land, a water right, 300 fruit trees, a barn full of hay, two haystacks, 20 head of cattle, a wagon, mowing machine, hay rake and some other things ? all for the great big sum of $1,250.00 dollars cash.
Father moved us into some tents down by the creek and the Cavaness family moved into our ranch house. The Cavaness were nice to us. Dan Cavaness and I fished, swam and prowled the creek bottoms together. Maude was one of my best friends growing up.
The Superstition, Tonto, Mazatzal, Globe and Payson ranches as they were in 1891-1910 from the papers of Maude Cavaness-Clarke.
My father, Matthew Cavaness always used the River brand on all his stock, cattle and horses. It was a meandering line like a river on the left side of the cattle and on the left thigh of the horses. Father taught me he always branded on the left side because he was right handed and at roundup it was easier for a cowboy to see the brand and rope the stock from that side.
George Marlow and Alfred Charleboise bought my father?s old ranch at Superstition Mountain and branded their stock with the ML brand.
Later Jim Bark and Frank Criswell bought that ranch and used the JL brand.
William Augustus Barkley later bought the ranch and over the years used the D Bar D, the Quarter Circle W, the 50, the TB, the Quarter Circle U and the 3R-1/4OU brands.
Jack Fraser started the JF Ranch in the Superstition Mountains and later Billy Martin took it up. Fraser branded his stock with the JF brand and Martin used the JF, 2E and J/A brands on his stock.
The old Reavis Ranch in the Superstitions was taken up by Will Clemans. He branded with the 5 Bar, Bar W, 4J, UU, E/T and OO brands. Will Knight was the ramrod for Clemans. Herman Petrasch was the handyman at that ranch.
Perl Grafton Ellison was the owner of the famous Q Ranch in the Tonto Basin.
Harvey Colcord, Bill Beard, Claude Delbridge, Ben Nail, Roy Tucker, George Parr, Charley Brewer, Jim Girdner, George Parr and Pete Stricklin were all cowboys for the Q Ranch.
Hi Perry was the ramrod for the Q Ranch. A real live rodeo star.
Bill Carrol was the cook for the Q Ranch. He was 85 in 1910.
On the Q ranch the brand PEQ was Perl Ellison?s cattle, JEQ was Jesse Ellison?s cattle, SEQ was Buss Ellison?s cattle and the TEQ brand was Tom Ellison?s cattle.
Glen Ellison bought the Buzzard X Ranch from Tex Connor and Bill Goswick was the ramrod for Ellison.
Bud Fisher ran the HI Ranch up on Rye Creek.
Al Rose started the ER Ranch and later Bob Samuel took it up after Rose was killed in the Pleasant Valley range war. Samuels had come to Arizona with Perl Ellison of the Q Ranch.
Alf Devore and his son Bob ran the R Cross Ranch. They branded their stock with the T4E and Rocking K brands.
Boyd Thompson started the Circle Y Ranch and branded his stock with the 3 spoke wagon hub brand.
Doc Ketcherside owned the UK ranch near Roosevelt.
Andy Wilbanks ran the Flying W Ranch and branded with the Flying W brand. Charley Morrow and Pecos McFadden were cowboys for Wilbanks. Pecos was wanted for rustling cows in Texas.
The MO Bar brand was the George Hubbard Ranch.
Cattle thieves and rustlers from the Tonto Basin to Payson used the Lazy VP brand on their stolen stock. They used an abandoned ranch as their headquarters but mostly did their work out of camps. It took the law almost a decade to finally catch them and put an end to their rustling.
Apache Indians used the V Bar 20 brand off the San Carlos Reservation near Globe and Roosevelt.
The Sexton Ranch ran the Bar L Bar brand. Old man Sexton sold out his operation to Ed Gilliland.
Ed Gilliland took up the 4 Cross L brand on the old Sexton Ranch.
Louis Naeglin ran the Diamond Bar Ranch and branded his stock with the Bow and Arrow brand.
Jim Hazelwood had the E Spear ranch and branded with the E Spear brand.
The Young ranch was run by Sam Young near Cherry Creek and he ran the VT brand on his stock.
The Jeff Paulson Ranch branded with the Z Bar brand.
Bill Young had the Bar X ranch and Johnny Jackson was his ramrod. Young, Arizona is named for Bill Young.
Ben Nail and his sons, Bill, Pete, and George partnered with Jess Ellison on the Q Ranch and used the brands Cross S and 7 Bar on their cattle and horses.
Burrell Lann and his father ran the Butcher Hook ranch in Tonto Basin. Lann sold out and moved with Johnny Cline to the TT Ranch over at New River. The Butcher Hook brand was one of the most famous in Tonto Basin.
Alf Devore, Will Lee, Tom Lee, Chet Cooper and Neil Lyle partnered to run the Shute Springs Ranch and used the SS brand on their stock.
Art Powell started the Flying H ranch but was killed in a range accident and John Loveless took over the operation. Loveless kept the Flying H brand.
Daniel Marley owned and branded with the DV brand. He had an Apache Indian named Henry as a cowboy who had fought the cavalry in the Apache wars.
Bob Samuel ran the ZT ranch and brand. Flos Dunbar was his ramrod and an all around cowboy and rodeo star.
The MO Ranch and brand was also known as the old Hubbard Ranch.
Jim Ramer had the Saddle Knife and OW Ranches.
Bill Vories ran the R Bar Ranch and Tommy Chilton was his head wrangler.
The TG brand was used by the Pinal Creek ranch. Apache Indians were part owners in that ranch.
Supple Hicks branded with the Double Circle brand. Lester Jenkins was the ramrod on the Hicks spread.
Boog McFadden started a little ranch in Mud Springs wash, ran horses and branded them with the LIT brand. Rustlers took most of his stock.
The old Hockers Ranch at Pinto Creek and the Salt River was always roundup headquarters because of its central location. As many as 12 ranches would use the ranch for spring and fall roundups. Old man Hocker ran the Bar HH Bar brand on all his stock.
A former rustler from Texas started up a ranch in Tonto Basin in the early days and branded stock with the RL and R Arrow brands. He was suspected of rustling Tonto Basin cattle and one day he just disappeared. No one knew if he had been driven out or he was lying dead somewhere out on the range. His name is forgotten but my brother Daniel thinks it was Riley Latimer.
Alf Devore at one time or another branded stock with the R+ brand and the R Cross brand.
Fred Haught from around Payson was a good friend of my father. He was a bear and lion hunter.
Zack Booth was a cowboy who bounced around from ranch to ranch. He was handy with a rope and a gun and he was hung in Globe for killing two sheep men employed by the Daggs brothers.
Ed Bouncer owned a General Store at Payson and we would go there twice a year. A real treat. It took us 5 days to go and come back.
My father (Matt Cavaness) would always stop at the Red Top Saloon in Payson, he was great friends with August Piper who owned the place.
There was another saloon in Payson called the 16 to 1 and mother wouldn?t let father go in there. There was fights and killings in there on a regular basis.
Boardman?s General store in Payson was my next favorite place to stop.
In Globe father always did business at Ike Lowthian?s Livery Stable and Blacksmith shop. Father and Ike were old friends.
Our House Saloon in Globe was a regular stop for my father. Will Rowland owned the saloon, he was another of fathers old friends.
Old Mr. Ryan ran the Supply Store in Globe, he was a nice old man and always gave us kids treats. Later he sold out to a mean man named Evans.
The Pacific Saloon in Globe was another wild place my father had to stay out of. John Mankin ran the saloon and he was said to have killed several men.
In the early 1900?s up through 1920?s Clara Allen ran Clara?s Red Light parlor in Globe. Mother wouldn?t let me even walk on the same side of the street as Clara?s.
Billy Lee was a cowboy who bought his own ranch, the Box Bar Ranch at Coon Creek. Bill was a good friend of mine growing up and an expert roper.
Ola Young was Bill Young?s daughter at Young, Arizona. She ran the post office at Young and worked in the General Store. She and I were good friends and I loved to go to Young in the springtime and fall.
?All these ranches and people are gone today, they?re just a fleeting memory.?
Maude Bertha Cavaness-Clarke Nov. 5, 1895 ? Dec. 8, 1996
The history of ranching and the pioneer ranchers who settled the Superstition Mountain cattle range, the Tonto Basin, Globe, Payson and the southern Mazatzal range has been mostly lost to the ages.
Bits and pieces are found in history books, articles and dime paperbacks but the names and places and the faces for the most part are gone, faded into the ages. Even some of the old ranches themselves are gone forever, buried underwater by the great dams that created Roosevelt, Apache, Canyon and Saguaro Lakes.
In 1992 I was able to copy from the memoirs and papers of Maude B. Clarke. I visited with her at her home in California. Maude was the daughter of Matt Cavaness, the first man to run cattle in the Superstition Mountains. The Matt Cavaness ?River Ranch? at the south end of Superstition Mountain later became the Bark-Criswell Ranch and later on the Tex Barkley ?Quarter Circle U Ranch? on Peralta Road.
Maude Cavaness married Wescott Bailey Clarke a Hollywood actor who in the 1920?s and 1930?s made several very successful films with producer/director Hal Roach. The Clarke?s lived in Los Angeles and later San Diego but Maude never forgot or lost her love for Arizona, the people and the remote ranches she grew up on.
Maude Bertha Cavaness-Clarke who everyone called, ?Bertie?, lived to be 101 years old. She passed away at her central California home in December 1996. Mrs. Clarke collected and carefully kept all the Cavaness family heirlooms and remembrances including things she inherited from her aunt Rebecca Ann Peeples, (Mrs. Abraham H. Peeples). The Cavaness and Peeples were two of Arizona?s oldest pioneer families.
Among the many possessions and papers she kept were remembrances of the ranches her father Matt Cavaness and brother Daniel Cavaness owned and worked. There was no particular order to these records and they were not written as diaries or journals or books, rather as hundreds of lines with the names, ranches and events. The people represented in those written lines are now long since passed and lost to memory except in those short sentences.
When I copied the things that day from Maude?s papers, one thing she asked was to promise that one day I would put all those people?s names down somewhere and preserve them in some way. Maude had known all of the people, knew their families, knew the ranches they lived on and their trials and tribulations and it was important to her that her father?s and her family?s lives not be forgotten.
Jess Ellison, one of Maude?s dearest friends in Arizona told this story of the day he met Maude and lost his ranch but made a friendship that would last his lifetime. The rest of the things written here are simply one or two line remembrances by Maude of what was the Superstition and Tonto ranches in the final days of the 1800?s and early 1900?s.
Jess Ellison writes:
?One day a man with a grey beard drove up to our ranch on the Tonto. With him in the wagon was a woman, a grown man, a 14 year-old boy and three girls. One of the girls was Maudie. The man driving the wagon said, ?I?m Matt Cavaness, this here is my wife and family. We?re from Phoenix. Your neighbor Bill Neal is my brother in law. We like it up here. I got some cash and I?m wondering if you would sell me this place??
My father?s eyes got a real glassy look and he said, ?I?ve been a wanting to.? ?Maybe we can trade.?
My mother came out and asked the women folks to come in the house. The young man strolled out into the orchard. My father and Matt Cavaness talked and the trade was made in 15 minutes without father asking mama what she thought of it. Thirty acres of irrigated land, a water right, 300 fruit trees, a barn full of hay, two haystacks, 20 head of cattle, a wagon, mowing machine, hay rake and some other things ? all for the great big sum of $1,250.00 dollars cash.
Father moved us into some tents down by the creek and the Cavaness family moved into our ranch house. The Cavaness were nice to us. Dan Cavaness and I fished, swam and prowled the creek bottoms together. Maude was one of my best friends growing up.
The Superstition, Tonto, Mazatzal, Globe and Payson ranches as they were in 1891-1910 from the papers of Maude Cavaness-Clarke.
My father, Matthew Cavaness always used the River brand on all his stock, cattle and horses. It was a meandering line like a river on the left side of the cattle and on the left thigh of the horses. Father taught me he always branded on the left side because he was right handed and at roundup it was easier for a cowboy to see the brand and rope the stock from that side.
George Marlow and Alfred Charleboise bought my father?s old ranch at Superstition Mountain and branded their stock with the ML brand.
Later Jim Bark and Frank Criswell bought that ranch and used the JL brand.
William Augustus Barkley later bought the ranch and over the years used the D Bar D, the Quarter Circle W, the 50, the TB, the Quarter Circle U and the 3R-1/4OU brands.
Jack Fraser started the JF Ranch in the Superstition Mountains and later Billy Martin took it up. Fraser branded his stock with the JF brand and Martin used the JF, 2E and J/A brands on his stock.
The old Reavis Ranch in the Superstitions was taken up by Will Clemans. He branded with the 5 Bar, Bar W, 4J, UU, E/T and OO brands. Will Knight was the ramrod for Clemans. Herman Petrasch was the handyman at that ranch.
Perl Grafton Ellison was the owner of the famous Q Ranch in the Tonto Basin.
Harvey Colcord, Bill Beard, Claude Delbridge, Ben Nail, Roy Tucker, George Parr, Charley Brewer, Jim Girdner, George Parr and Pete Stricklin were all cowboys for the Q Ranch.
Hi Perry was the ramrod for the Q Ranch. A real live rodeo star.
Bill Carrol was the cook for the Q Ranch. He was 85 in 1910.
On the Q ranch the brand PEQ was Perl Ellison?s cattle, JEQ was Jesse Ellison?s cattle, SEQ was Buss Ellison?s cattle and the TEQ brand was Tom Ellison?s cattle.
Glen Ellison bought the Buzzard X Ranch from Tex Connor and Bill Goswick was the ramrod for Ellison.
Bud Fisher ran the HI Ranch up on Rye Creek.
Al Rose started the ER Ranch and later Bob Samuel took it up after Rose was killed in the Pleasant Valley range war. Samuels had come to Arizona with Perl Ellison of the Q Ranch.
Alf Devore and his son Bob ran the R Cross Ranch. They branded their stock with the T4E and Rocking K brands.
Boyd Thompson started the Circle Y Ranch and branded his stock with the 3 spoke wagon hub brand.
Doc Ketcherside owned the UK ranch near Roosevelt.
Andy Wilbanks ran the Flying W Ranch and branded with the Flying W brand. Charley Morrow and Pecos McFadden were cowboys for Wilbanks. Pecos was wanted for rustling cows in Texas.
The MO Bar brand was the George Hubbard Ranch.
Cattle thieves and rustlers from the Tonto Basin to Payson used the Lazy VP brand on their stolen stock. They used an abandoned ranch as their headquarters but mostly did their work out of camps. It took the law almost a decade to finally catch them and put an end to their rustling.
Apache Indians used the V Bar 20 brand off the San Carlos Reservation near Globe and Roosevelt.
The Sexton Ranch ran the Bar L Bar brand. Old man Sexton sold out his operation to Ed Gilliland.
Ed Gilliland took up the 4 Cross L brand on the old Sexton Ranch.
Louis Naeglin ran the Diamond Bar Ranch and branded his stock with the Bow and Arrow brand.
Jim Hazelwood had the E Spear ranch and branded with the E Spear brand.
The Young ranch was run by Sam Young near Cherry Creek and he ran the VT brand on his stock.
The Jeff Paulson Ranch branded with the Z Bar brand.
Bill Young had the Bar X ranch and Johnny Jackson was his ramrod. Young, Arizona is named for Bill Young.
Ben Nail and his sons, Bill, Pete, and George partnered with Jess Ellison on the Q Ranch and used the brands Cross S and 7 Bar on their cattle and horses.
Burrell Lann and his father ran the Butcher Hook ranch in Tonto Basin. Lann sold out and moved with Johnny Cline to the TT Ranch over at New River. The Butcher Hook brand was one of the most famous in Tonto Basin.
Alf Devore, Will Lee, Tom Lee, Chet Cooper and Neil Lyle partnered to run the Shute Springs Ranch and used the SS brand on their stock.
Art Powell started the Flying H ranch but was killed in a range accident and John Loveless took over the operation. Loveless kept the Flying H brand.
Daniel Marley owned and branded with the DV brand. He had an Apache Indian named Henry as a cowboy who had fought the cavalry in the Apache wars.
Bob Samuel ran the ZT ranch and brand. Flos Dunbar was his ramrod and an all around cowboy and rodeo star.
The MO Ranch and brand was also known as the old Hubbard Ranch.
Jim Ramer had the Saddle Knife and OW Ranches.
Bill Vories ran the R Bar Ranch and Tommy Chilton was his head wrangler.
The TG brand was used by the Pinal Creek ranch. Apache Indians were part owners in that ranch.
Supple Hicks branded with the Double Circle brand. Lester Jenkins was the ramrod on the Hicks spread.
Boog McFadden started a little ranch in Mud Springs wash, ran horses and branded them with the LIT brand. Rustlers took most of his stock.
The old Hockers Ranch at Pinto Creek and the Salt River was always roundup headquarters because of its central location. As many as 12 ranches would use the ranch for spring and fall roundups. Old man Hocker ran the Bar HH Bar brand on all his stock.
A former rustler from Texas started up a ranch in Tonto Basin in the early days and branded stock with the RL and R Arrow brands. He was suspected of rustling Tonto Basin cattle and one day he just disappeared. No one knew if he had been driven out or he was lying dead somewhere out on the range. His name is forgotten but my brother Daniel thinks it was Riley Latimer.
Alf Devore at one time or another branded stock with the R+ brand and the R Cross brand.
Fred Haught from around Payson was a good friend of my father. He was a bear and lion hunter.
Zack Booth was a cowboy who bounced around from ranch to ranch. He was handy with a rope and a gun and he was hung in Globe for killing two sheep men employed by the Daggs brothers.
Ed Bouncer owned a General Store at Payson and we would go there twice a year. A real treat. It took us 5 days to go and come back.
My father (Matt Cavaness) would always stop at the Red Top Saloon in Payson, he was great friends with August Piper who owned the place.
There was another saloon in Payson called the 16 to 1 and mother wouldn?t let father go in there. There was fights and killings in there on a regular basis.
Boardman?s General store in Payson was my next favorite place to stop.
In Globe father always did business at Ike Lowthian?s Livery Stable and Blacksmith shop. Father and Ike were old friends.
Our House Saloon in Globe was a regular stop for my father. Will Rowland owned the saloon, he was another of fathers old friends.
Old Mr. Ryan ran the Supply Store in Globe, he was a nice old man and always gave us kids treats. Later he sold out to a mean man named Evans.
The Pacific Saloon in Globe was another wild place my father had to stay out of. John Mankin ran the saloon and he was said to have killed several men.
In the early 1900?s up through 1920?s Clara Allen ran Clara?s Red Light parlor in Globe. Mother wouldn?t let me even walk on the same side of the street as Clara?s.
Billy Lee was a cowboy who bought his own ranch, the Box Bar Ranch at Coon Creek. Bill was a good friend of mine growing up and an expert roper.
Ola Young was Bill Young?s daughter at Young, Arizona. She ran the post office at Young and worked in the General Store. She and I were good friends and I loved to go to Young in the springtime and fall.
?All these ranches and people are gone today, they?re just a fleeting memory.?
Maude Bertha Cavaness-Clarke Nov. 5, 1895 ? Dec. 8, 1996
Attachments
SteveA Reno
Greenie
Lots of great info! Thanks!
SteveA Reno
Greenie
In Episoded 19 of Mysteries of the Superstitions, Clay Worst said that Matt Cavaness was a Freighter and would haul the ore from the mines to Yuma and then by boat to San Fran around Baja. On the way back from one trip "he brought back a load of east coast lumber that had been brought back from the east coast around Cape Horn to San Fran" and built the first lumber house or "board house" in the area!
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
If the board house had changed hands by time Waltz was going to take Julia in; would that information be common knowledge to residents of Phoenix? Maybe some folk, but I would think it possible, that Waltz or Julia might be unaware of the change..... if it had changed?
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
To put the board house and the QCU ranch history in perspective.
The board house was built at the Cavaness ranch in late 1875.
In 1881 Matt Cavaness and his wife Alice were divorced. Matt gave the ranch and all cattle and horses to his wife. The 2 youngest children, Anson and Aaron stayed at the ranch with their mother. Matt Cavaness moved to Phoenix with the oldest boy Albert.
Later in 1881 Alice Cavaness married Randolph Perdue and in January 1882 Alice traded the ranch to Leo Goldman for bills she had run up at Goldmans mercantile store in Phoenix.
Alice and Randolph and the 2 youngest Cavaness children continued to live on the ranch until July of 1882 when Goldman sold the ranch to Alfred Charleboise and George Marlow. Alice and family moved into Phoenix that July.
In 1883 George Marlow bought out his partner Alfred Charleboise.
In 1891 Jim Bark, Frank Criswell and James Powell bought the ranch from the estate of George Marlow.
In 1906 Frank Criswell bought out his partners Jim Bark and James Powell.
In 1911 Tex Barkley and Thom Buchanan bought the ranch from Frank Criswell est.
The board house was built at the Cavaness ranch in late 1875.
In 1881 Matt Cavaness and his wife Alice were divorced. Matt gave the ranch and all cattle and horses to his wife. The 2 youngest children, Anson and Aaron stayed at the ranch with their mother. Matt Cavaness moved to Phoenix with the oldest boy Albert.
Later in 1881 Alice Cavaness married Randolph Perdue and in January 1882 Alice traded the ranch to Leo Goldman for bills she had run up at Goldmans mercantile store in Phoenix.
Alice and Randolph and the 2 youngest Cavaness children continued to live on the ranch until July of 1882 when Goldman sold the ranch to Alfred Charleboise and George Marlow. Alice and family moved into Phoenix that July.
In 1883 George Marlow bought out his partner Alfred Charleboise.
In 1891 Jim Bark, Frank Criswell and James Powell bought the ranch from the estate of George Marlow.
In 1906 Frank Criswell bought out his partners Jim Bark and James Powell.
In 1911 Tex Barkley and Thom Buchanan bought the ranch from Frank Criswell est.
PotBelly Jim
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If the board house had changed hands by time Waltz was going to take Julia in; would that information be common knowledge to residents of Phoenix? Maybe some folk, but I would think it possible, that Waltz or Julia might be unaware of the change..... if it had changed?
That's the problem with all these legends...as you start peeling back the layers of that onion, and see that they can't have happened the way you've come to believe or what you've been told...well, you either start questioning and tearing apart the whole thing in order to find the best truth you can...or you start figuring out ways to get around or explain the inconsistency. Often this option leads away from actual history. Not you personally, but "you" (i.e. all of us who are interested in these things) in general.
I think since the beginning of the internet, resulting in a lot of historical info being digitized, it's become easier (in some ways) to figure out what was true. Personally, I think there's a grain of truth in most of these legends, and just because someone came in after the fact and added some "yarnin" to the story, doesn't necessarily mean the base info was untrue to start. That's just my own opinion on it, for what that's worth
EDIT: Had to log off for a minute...anyway, yes we can assume it's remotely possible that Waltz and/or Juila didn't know the status of the board house. I tend to think they did, as not only was it a small community, they knew Jim Bark and where he lived. Bark said he talked to Waltz a little, and in a small community, people know or find out where you live...I think the following is also probable: Waltz would have also heard about the Cavaness divorce (he certainly knew or knew of Matt Cavaness), he probably would have known Alice remarried and moved back to PHX, and would have heard when she died.
That's just scratching the surface, but a lot of things to happen for Waltz to be oblivious to the fact that she no longer lived at the board house.
I think it's most likely that Waltz referenced the "Board House", maybe even Mrs. Cavaness and the kids...all while knowing they no longer lived there. As it was passed down to us, that info may have been subtly changed.
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Cubfan64
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Pardon my ignorance, but I've always been under the impression that the "board house" from Waltz's time was located right near the current QCU ranch buildings. I see from the video Wayne posted (Larry Hedrick speaking) as well as his GE image map that the original "board house" was actually located right next to where the old Lost Dutchman store was along the road to the QCU, but 3/4 of a mile from the current QCU.
I don't know how I missed that in all the years of reading forum posts and having discussions.
Is Larry Hedrick mistaken, or is that where you believe the board house stood as well?
