Clues for cache hunting

[gflores71]

Real de Tayopa

is that person in the picture wearing a gas mask?? seems like it,
thanks for the links will start reviewing them

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=gflores7
is that person in the picture wearing a gas mask?? seems like it,
thanks for the links will start reviewing them
~~~~~
a) No Dr Flores, that skinny gal was destined to be my wife, after a 3 year old fashioned Formal Spanish courtship.

Picture how she turned out.

no masks.

.Till eulenspoiegle

 

[gflores71]

Real de Tayopa

I will be contacting you once I am in the middle of my expeditions in S.A. I will be searching in pretty mineralized soil, will send pictures and also ask for some advice as we go ahead with certain projects. If you have an MSN account please send me a PM so that I will be able to contact you live as we will have satelite internet access,

thanks

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Real de Tayopa

I will be contacting you once I am in the middle of my expeditions in S.A. I will be searching in pretty mineralized soil, will send pictures and also ask for some advice as we go ahead with certain projects. If you have an MSN account please send me a PM so that I will be able to contact you live as we will have satelite internet access,

thanks
~~~~~~
A) YES DR FLORES, IT HAS BEEN SENT.

TILL UELENSPIEGLE

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

author=CaptainZossima
I must confess. I am Zossima the confessor. Your wife, Till, has the beauty of Helen of Troy, her eyes sparkle as if gemstones in the midday sun, her spirit effervesces with a loving soul, and her femininity glows as does a warm ember in a late night fire. Surely you've been blessed more than you deserve.

Cappy Z.

PS, And I'm certain shes alot smarter than you.
~~~~~

Q) And just why do you think that she Glows -- hmm hmm? snicker heheh. Mi mommy also thought the same Sossi. Frankly, I think that she "does" deserve me.

And yes she is, sniff, aren't most wives?

Till Eulenspiegle

p.s. listening to nice music ---"o mio bambino caro". and "Clalre de Lune" sigh

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=SWR How can testing for arsenic, in an empty hole, tell if it was one ton of gold, or one ton of bull@#!?it can?t

HH, Jim
~~~~~~
A) I tend to go with you on this JIm, also I am curious on the end product of gold being Arsenic.

But then i certainly don't know it all - just ask my wife !,

Till Eulensiegle

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SWR

Noble Metal...are you stating that these occurrences only happen ?abroad?, where only ?some people? can see them? Seems odd that this phenomenon is restricted to only certain countries and only some people.

HH, Jim

~~~~~

A) Hi Jim, so far from what I have experienced and seen, it is basically an occurance in areas of high Adobe and semi arid conditions. How many areas in the world fit those conditions?

This was once explained in more depth in your lead. short memory?.

Till Eulenspiegle

 

[dawgvader]

Mr SWR what are you a rookie at this trade... calling it BUll#%@... click on this link below and let the Healing
BEGIN!
http://www.minsocam.org/msa/AmMin/T.../Simon_p1071_99.pdf#search='gold and arsenic'

 

[dawgvader]

Contents
Introduction
Properties of Arsenic
Compounds and Minerals
Uses of Arsenic
References
Introduction
Arsenic, symbol As, is a rather rare element that by chance has become well known. It is notorious as a poison, but there is more to it than that. Its abundance in the crust of the earth is estimated as 5 x 10-4%, not much more than that of a rare earth metal, and only four times more than that of platinum. However, it very frequently accompanies ores of gold, silver, lead and copper and so becomes an unavoidable by-product. The Boliden gold-copper mine in Sweden from a ton of ore produced 1 oz. gold, 2 oz. silver, 20 lb of copper, but 180 lb of arsenic! This one mine tended to glut the supply of arsenic in the first half of the 20th century. All arsenic comes as a by-product, and ores are not mined specifically for arsenic.
Arsenic is worth studying because of its curious uses, and as an example of an element that stands with one foot in the metals camp, and one foot in the nonmetals camp. Actually, it is erroneous to call an element a "metal" or a "nonmetal" as if this were some inbred quality. An atom is just a certain number of electrons neutralizing the electric charge of a nucleus, and all its properties are only those of the structures in which it takes part. There are no qualities in the atom itself. This is strikingly true in the case of arsenic.

Properties of Arsenic
Arsenic has atomic number 33, so it has 33 electrons in the configuration 1s2 2s22p6 3s23p23d10 4s24p3. The same outer shell s2p3 is shared by N, P, Sb and Bi, the two lighter elements above it in the periodic table, and the two heavier elements below. Of these, N and P are evident nonmetals, while Sb and Bi are definitely metals, with metallic lustre and conducting electricity. As falls between, and cannot be classified so simply. The outer shell suggests valences of 3 and 5 for arsenic, and indeed these are observed. The first ionization potential of As is 10.5 V, which is quite high for a metal, but rather low for a nonmetal. The atomic radius of As is 1.25 ?, just a little larger than that of S, 1.06 ?. The single-bond covalent radius is also given as 1.21 ?, and the nonbonding packing radius as 2.0 ?. The only stable isotope has mass number 75. The atomic weight of arsenic is 74.9216 (C12 = 12.0000).

Arsenic by itself likes to form the tetrahedral molecule As4, in which each As is bound to the other three covalently (by sharing electrons). Phosphorus does exactly the same thing. As4 is a yellowish gas that condenses to a yellow, waxy solid with density about 2.0 g/cc. The gas has a characteristic garlic-like odor. This is very much like white phosphorus. However, white phosphorus is reasonably stable, while yellow arsenic is not. In the presence of light, yellow or γ-As rearranges itself to structures of higher density and darker color, such as brown or black β-As of density 4.7. There may be several such structures, but all are nonmetallic, without lustre and not electrically conducting. The most stable form at room temperature, which usually arises spontaneously, is metallic α-As, with grey color and metallic lustre. The lustre soon tarnishes on exposure to air. It is electrically conducting, with resistivity 35 μΩ-cm. Its hardness is 3.5, coefficient of expansion 6.95 x 10-4 per ?C, and specific heat 0.0822 cal/g/?C. The substance is definitely a metal, but is brittle and does not melt, but sublimes directly into As4 at 615?C. It is more or less analogous to red phosphorus (which is not a metal, however). We see that arsenic can dress as a metal or a nonmetal, depending on how it aggregates, and how it aggregates depends on the balance between lowest energy and highest entropy (the minimum of the free energy U - TS).

Compounds and Minerals
The ancient world knew only two arsenic compounds, but was, of course, unaware of the connection. These were the sulphides realgar, As2S2, and orpiment, As2S3. Realgar was then called sandarach, Greek sandarakh, sandaRAke. It was a soft, light, translucent substance of a deep red-orange colour that was ground and used as a pigment. The other was a soft, light, translucent substance of a fine yellow colour, also used as a pigment. In Greek, it was also called sandarach or arsenikon, "arsenikon." The Greek word arsen, "arsen," means "male," or by extension "strong." How this came to be associated with the compound is not known. In Latin, it was called auripigmentum, from which the French or-piment directly comes. Gaius Caesar (Caligula) engaged in a little alchemy to see if he couldn't coax the yellow color onto some heavy metal and get gold, but he was not successful. This was long before mystical alchemy was introduced from the Arabs, and should be classed as a chemical endeavour. The toxic nature of arsenic was unknown to the ancients.


References
F. X. M. Zippe, Geschichte der Metalle (Wien: Wilhelm Braum?ller, 1857). pp. 218-226.

J. L. Bray, Non-Ferrous Production Metallurgy, 2nd ed. (New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1947). pp. 83-88.

C. H. Hurlbut, Jr., Dana's Manual of Mineralogy, 16th ed. (New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1952). Native arsenic is on p. 180. Realgar and orpiment are on pp. 204-205. Arsenopyrite is on pp. 212-213.

W. N. Jones, Jr., Inorganic Chemistry (Philadelphia: Blakiston, 1949). pp. 485-494.

M. J. Sienko and R. A. Plane, Chemical Principles and Properties, 2nd ed. (New York: McGraw-Hill International Student Edition, 1974). pp. 609-629.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[dawgvader
Mr SWR what are you a rookie at this trade... calling it BUll#%@... click on this link below and let the Healing
BEGIN!
~~~~~

A) Hi, relax. I believe that SWR was simply making a qualifying comparative statement rather than saying that your post was such
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
http://www.minsocam.org/msa/AmMin/T.../Simon_p1071_99.pdf#search='gold and arsenic'
~~~~~~
A) Interesting article, having been an assayer in my checkered career It is simple to understand.

Till Eulenspiegle

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[dawgvader
Contents
Introduction
Properties of Arsenic
Compounds and Minerals
Uses of Arsenic
it very frequently accompanies ores of gold, silver, lead and copper and so becomes an unavoidable by-product.[/b] The Boliden gold-copper mine in Sweden from a ton of ore produced 1 oz. gold, 2 oz. silver, 20 lb of copper, but 180 lb of arsenic! This one mine tended to glut the supply of arsenic in the first half of the 20th century. All arsenic comes as a by-product, and ores are not mined specifically for arsenic.
~~~~~~~

A) Getting rid of the darn stuff is the problem. At the Cosala operation we had 33% As and 30 grams of gold. (semi concentrate) We used 5 carbon columns to extract the Au from the cyanide solution - took more Zn than the Au was worth to precipitate it. The Arsenic just ate the Zinc up.

t is obvious the authors have never been in Mexico. Too much in many of the Au ores. plus the added strict safety factor costs, make many rich mines uneconomical.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

Gaius Caesar (Caligula) engaged in a little alchemy to see if he couldn't coax the yellow color onto some heavy metal and get gold, but he was not successful.
~~~~~~
) Sheesh, most of my lab area was coated with this Yellow As, couldn't get rid of it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~. T

he toxic nature of arsenic was unknown to the ancients.
~~~~~
A) It was known to me, but still I eventually had Arsenic poisining, confirmed at the near by hospital.

p.s. Dr Flores, I cured myself of it by massive ingestions of vit "C", there was no Lewisite available, which was the only treatment available then.. VIT "C" acts as an efficient Chelator of the heavy metals. (proven in the 1930's).

Till Euenspiegle

 

[Noble Metal]

Arsenic is a by-product of many elements, and is not the by-product of a buried cache.

SWR, from your experence in the field how do you know that

 

[dawgvader]

Its common knowledge that pure gold or 24kt gold is not completely pure gold... lets say you have a 60lb brick of pure gold... there are trace minerals or trace metals in it... however you want to classify it...an arsenic being a by product of gold and is consisdered a mineral or metal... it is immersed in the Gold itself at trace or micro levels... see people who wear gold don't wear enough gold to get sick.. They dont wear 60 lbs of pure gold around their neck.... now times it by 200 bricks at 60lbs a piece and let it sit in the ground for 400 hundred years and I guarantee there is enough arsenic to kill you ten times over...

 

[Noble Metal]

After 9 years in the Philippines, I will guarantee everyone reading that the above statement is a Fact.

 

[Noble Metal]

And thats not to even mention the other elements and items usually found within a large buried cache.

 

[dawgvader]

SWR all I have been doing is giving you links of accredited sources proving my point... Now its your turn to give me accredited reports on proving me wrong! I dont have to prove anything ... I already know the truth!... If you dont believe me ask Noble Metal.. he lived in the Phillipines where there is masive amounts of Proccessed Gold!

 

[Noble Metal]

This was interesting to me:

Shotput Man;

Who ever carved it was an artist and it had to take a very long time to carve it. It's almost life size, with a lot of detail. I don't know about the voices, ***but a treasure that has been buried for a long time will emit gases from the acid rains attacking it. On a high humidity night the gases can be seen with the naked eye. It is similiar to the aurora-borialas. The lights are different colors depending on the type of noble metals that are buried there. Blue being gold, while reddish orange is from silver.

***

This post has been running for awhile, and I never saw, heard, or read the above story ever until today.

Some of you will remeber when I first mentioned knowing of the above I mentioned it happening during or after a rain.. and as I remember, gflores also mentions cracked soil and the dry season.

The first time I ever saw and knew of this where a cache was later to be recovered was three years ago.

Interesting world, and theres lots to learn men

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[SWR ]

there is arsenic present in refined/processed gold,
~~~~~
A) While I frankly do not understand how gold can be transformed into As, I do know that in the refinning process it is almost impossible to have any measurable As in the finished product.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
it is not my responsibility to disprove your claim. I do find it rather odd, that through countless internet searches, and countless queries through University databanks, there fails to be any information supporting your claim.
~~~~~
A) I agree, but I challenge you to find any information on the Pichi Quate, the Carbunko, the petate, the flat Head culture in Sonora, the race of giants of aprox. 9 - ft tall, or the small ones of 3-4 ft in Sonora/Chihuahua.

I have sent specimans and photographs, plus papers to various centers. Obviously, through personal observation I know that they exist. Unless you can find certfied data on these, I question your expertise to do valid reseach, or have the correct facilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Till Eulenspiegle

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

author=dawgvader ]
They dont wear 60 lbs of pure gold around their neck.... now times it by 200 bricks at 60lbs a piece and let it sit in the ground for 400 hundred years and I guarantee there is enough arsenic to kill you ten times over...
~~~~~~

A) HI my friend, here I am involved with Gold from approx 1500-1630, the 400 year range. I have seen many Gold artifacts and actually handled Gold Bars from that period. Many were found in caves, others underground, to my knowledge no-one died of Arsenic poisoning. Yes, some did die, but for other reasons. Some due to closed spaces with perhaps decomposing metal modifying the air?, others for psychological reasons - i/e. the belief that they were to die since they had touched a treasure.

Incidentally, assays of the gold bars showed many impurities, but for all practical purposes, no Arsenic?

There are many extremely old Gold artifacts, some in the thousands of years, now being recovered all over the world, to my knowledge, most still test for gold, but no appreciable amount of Arsenic, so I question the conversion of Gold to Arsenic.

I am willing to learn.

Till Eulenspiegle

 

[gflores71]

Advice is always wellcome, I think it can make things easier . Take the information in, see what works for you. I have my personal experiences that are worth everything to me, even if the whole world does not believe my experiences it does not matter, after all I am the one who benefits from what I have learned in 15 yrs of cache hunting. So I can also share them hoping that it will help somebody else, even if it is one of 100. In the same way others share theirs.

I think argueing over these matters or trying to discredit someones experience will not get anyone any benefit, why not instead try it out, and I do not mean applying it to INTERNET searches, instead to Cache searches.

I have to admit, I have little coinshooting experience but quite a bit of Cache hunting experience. And most of my learning has been through others, despite me not believing things, I tried them out. Some worked but some did not, again some benefit gained.